MK Big Thunder Mountain to receive full retrack

[MisterPenguin]

 

[EricsBiscuit]

So I never actually wet myself on Universe of Energy? Wow, that’s a relief.

You didn’t take the approach of our esteemed friend from the safari?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Wowzers. Those views are something.

They did a really good job at Disneyland making sure galaxies edge blended in to the big thunder sight lines - I hope they do that here with villians

 

[ToTBellHop]

I actually love that we will easily be able to see both lands under construction from Big Thunder. These projects are always fascinating to watch.

 

[DisneyFanatic12]

That’s a whole lot of words that tells me absolutely nothing I didn’t already know.

A ride like big thunder, how much will it vary. Under 1mph? 1-2? 2-4? That’s what I was asking.

Gemini says 2-5 mph

I might be wrong with this, but on a slower coaster like BTM, the rider weight would have a small impact on max speed because there’s not as much air resistance to overcome.

With a perfect coaster with no friction in a vacuum, weight would have no effect on the speed of the coaster. The biggest factors in slowing down the car from this ideal max would be air resistance and friction. Friction is going to be pretty constant day over day assuming they’re doing pretty good maintenance, though the coaster might get a bit faster throughout the day. On the other hand, air resistance can vary a bit more, but is still going to have relatively little variation outside of extreme circumstances like high winds.

Rider weight probably has the biggest impact in reducing the effect of the air resistance on the max speed of BTM throughout the day, but the overall impact of rider weight is pretty small when comparing an empty train to a fully loaded train, so the variability of speed between a train of lighter guests and heavier guests is even smaller. Long story short, a max of 2-5 miles per hour of variation in speed seems reasonable to me.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Just noticing the sand on Big Thunder. It does look strange.

 

[flynnibus]

With a perfect coaster with no friction in a vacuum, weight would have no effect on the speed of the coaster.

Incorrect - Weight is part of the potential energy the train has. A heavier train will generate more speed on a downhill, but of course will burn more energy climbing and turning. Second law of motion f=ma.

ETA: yes, in a pure vacuum you can say mass is irrelevant - but it really has nothing to do with the scenario on hand.. which is all about energy, not the fact that gravity is constant

Same reason why launch coasters that try to strike a balance like superman need to vary their launch power. More mass = more force needed to get the kinetic energy needed.

I don't design coasters, so I don't know how much margin they build in for passenger variances and how the ratio of passengers vs static weights play out... but obviously a coaster is planned for all this and the excess are neutralized through braking. The whole discussion is basically a fools errand because variations are short lived, and so minor guests can't really qualify it anyway. They just 'feel' it and it's more psychological than actual.

 

[larryz]

Same reason why launch coasters that try to strike a balance like superman need to vary their launch power. More mass = more force needed to get the kinetic energy needed.

And they don't always get it right; case in point, a roll-back after launch on Top Thrill Dragster II

 

[flynnibus]

That’s a whole lot of words that tells me absolutely nothing I didn’t already know.

Well if you are so smart - maybe you should have written a question that actually made sense to read?

A ride like big thunder, how much will it vary. Under 1mph? 1-2? 2-4? That’s what I was asking.

1 - variations are short lived and scrubbed out through the ride. The timing on a multi-train setup like BTMRR that can run up to 5 trains is very important. They have a ride envelope they stay within. The coaster length and train operation didn't change.. hence it's main constraints are still the same.
2 - As a rider, you can't objectively quantify that kind of small speed variation anyway. It's mostly psychological.. driven largely by the kind of temporary acceleration differences the ride experiences with the greater weight. None of the changes are long lived because the ride is constantly changing velocity to get you the kind of experience we all want from coasters. Speed isn't even what you are craving on the ride..it's the accelerations.. so all this fixation on speed is dumb.

Just like the guy claiming he can qualify a speed difference from his seat of his pants from 40yrs ago.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

As a rider, you can't objectively quantify that kind of small speed variation anyway.

I wasn’t thinking you necessarily could, I was just curious how much it varies. do you agree with Gemini that it’s 2-5 mph?

 

[flynnibus]

I wasn’t thinking you necessarily could, I was just curious how much it varies. do you agree with Gemini that it’s 2-5 mph?

I don't have the free cycles to do the actual research into the numbers. You could look into the citations if you really were into it. I'm not. But it doesn't take a calculator or running the numbers to realize how little time you spend on a ride like BTMRR without any changing of direction (aka acceleration).. and that coaster riders seek other things.

Max speeds are marketing stat wars that advertise a peak speed to try to boast about how radical they are -- but it's a number you only experience briefly on a downhill before you turn out. It's not what you experience through the ride. As a rider, you can't really qualify speed much.. it's more your eyes seeing things going by that gives you the feel.. your body is better at feeling the forces on it. Which is why we crave things like the backseat.. the backseat always travels at the same speed as the other seats on the train. But it experiences a different ride because of when/how you experience the acceleration.

 

[HMF]

Concept aside, its sad to know WDI wasn't given the money to do it right.

WDI was not given the money to do it right but they opened the ride anyway?

I presume WDI did not realize the damage the Rocket Rods were going to do to the track till after the fact?

Maybe WDI said not to open it and management said to open it?

It would be interesting to learn what happened behind the scenes.

Considering the actual ride issues elsewhere in the park that did occur around that time it was probably quite dire.

 

[HMF]

Wowzers. Those views are something.

They did a really good job at Disneyland making sure galaxies edge blended in to the big thunder sight lines - I hope they do that here with villians

I just wish we kept our river too.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Incorrect - Weight is part of the potential energy the train has. A heavier train will generate more speed on a downhill, but of course will burn more energy climbing and turning. Second law of motion f=ma.

ETA: yes, in a pure vacuum you can say mass is irrelevant - but it really has nothing to do with the scenario on hand.. which is all about energy, not the fact that gravity is constant

Your second paragraph contradicts the first.

In a vacuum all things "fall" (i.e. "accelerate") at the same rate of acceleration regardless of mass.

On BTMM, there isn't a vacuum, so, friction with the air has an effect, albeit a small one. I doubt that the size of the riders produce a noticeable drag on the train's velocity.

As far as potential energy goes, that's not the stat that counts. Again, going back to a vacuum, a sphere of iron will not fall faster than a sphere of wood, even though the sphere of iron has more potential energy.

What extra weight provides is more momentum. More 'weight' is more momentum, which overpowers any drag from air, wind, or friction from the wheels or track. A sphere of iron will fall faster than a sphere of Styrofoam, which a sharp breeze can make go up and not down, while a sphere of iron will not be noticeably affected by that same sharp breeze.

{Using Newtonian physics, of course.}

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

All this because someone lied about the ride being slowed down

 

[flynnibus]

Your second paragraph contradicts the first.

You know that ETA stands for “edited to add”?

And as i said… the fact that gravity is a constant here is not the point of interest .

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

As a rider, you can't really qualify speed much.. it's more your eyes seeing things going by that gives you the feel..

Yes, especially on a ride like big thunder. I think one of the reasons I like the DL one the best is for me personally, the sight gags draw my attention at the exact right times to distract me and then the coaster “surprises” me.

 

[mysto]

Anecdotally I think coasters are faster on a cold day.

Colder air is denser, which should slow it down. I don't think rider weight is a big deal as a bunch of you have said.

The wheels usually have a layer of urethane on them where they touch the track. When cold they will deform less and roll more easily, I'll bet this is the biggest difference. Maybe the performance of bearings/grease when cold.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Just my opinion, this retrack/maintenance is fine.

We will have a decade of other work to argue about.

 

[larryz]

And as i said… the fact that gravity is a constant here is not the point of interest .

Ah, but is it? Do not the LIMs that propel the trains into and out of the stations create temporary, focused, gravitic anomalies that might affect how Earth's normal gravity speeds up/slows down the trains on the track?