Big changes coming to FASTPASS in March

[WDW 3]

I never knew you could use them til the end of the day. We thought the window was enforced. It won't be a change to us at all.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

You can easily see in todys America this is what we have created, a generation of me me me me .. This is why my parents don't go anymore ... they are sick of the whiners ....:hurl:

Ironic how so many in this thread can't stop whining about late FP users.

 

[David S.]

You can easily see in todys America this is what we have created, a generation of me me me me .. This is why my parents don't go anymore ... they are sick of the whiners ....:hurl:

Seems like there are far more people "whining" about us evil horrid people who dared to use a FP "late" (even though CMs and management have consistently told me it was NOT AGAINST THE RULES to do so) than there are about anything else.

It is not "selfish" or "me me me" to utilize a system to its fullest potential if you have been told by the people actually in charge of running the system itself that you are doing nothing wrong.

See post # 598 for a more detailed reply: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=4869371&postcount=598

Edit: Donald beat me to it. Good job!

 

[uklad79]

Boo wooo a few foamers can no longer play the system. Time to go see mummy for a diaper change you clearly have soiled yourselves over this and some of what people are posting smells that way.

Most "normal" guests follow the times on the fastpass most fan boys do as they please as they think they own the park. I bet you all feel like mummy is making you grow up and follow the rules and after running to daddy last time aka Disney he let you get away with it but now your grown up and know the rules so daddy is being strict. As predicted little fan boys is throwing his toys out the pram but baby's get over it if they are ignored and daddy Disney knows that.

 

[flynnibus]

Statistically, showing up "late" is simply giving all of the people who would have been in back of you "cuts" by one person because you weren't there.

No, this is another gross simplification used to justify something that just doesn't apply in the real world.

The logic doesn't work because in the real world.. it is not one continuous line of people waiting to get on the ride where everyone lined up at once. While the ride's capacity can be seen as pretty constant, the 'demand' (the people getting in line) is variable and is based on human factors that are largely influenced by the existing demand.

When you get in line at 7pm, your wait is not influenced by people getting in line or not at 10am. Your wait is only dependent on the people in front of you right now. The people in front of you is based on a time window in front of you - not all guests since park opening - because not everyone from park opening to 7pm were in the same line. The number of people the ride needs to churn through before a point in the day will vary.

The line varies throughout the day because demand varies. And the line can actually stimulate demand itself. Example: If Space Mountain were to drop to a 10min wait, then people would see that, and decide 'hey lets ride space while the wait is low!'.. this creates a new demand that otherwise would not have been there. The inverse applies as well.

So while the ride's capacity is constant, the wait is not (as everyone sees). The wait grows when demand exceeds capacity, and shrinks with the inverse. But demand is not pre-determined. The wait at a point in time can stimulate or demand.

This variation in demand will wipe out any propagation delays gained by having a few less people in line hours ago.

Think about it.. have you ever hung with your friends at 6pm and said 'Hey, Space Mountain was only a 30min wait this morning.. we should get in line now because that means the wait will be much quicker!'

Demand is variable and is based on a feedback loop - because of that, the theory that a guy not in line hours before speeds up your line now is simply not realized in the real world. The human factor of what is a reasonable wait or worthwhile wait will always wipe out propagation gains.

 

[Tiggerrules]

Returning late does have a minor impact on the system. I have experienced a couple times where I returned during my alloted time only to find the fp line full. While in line I realized the majority were people with passes that should have been used earlier. So to say it has no impact is not correct. Granted this has only happened a couple times, but it does happen. Before I get flamed, I am just sharing my experience.

 

[flynnibus]

Many FP attractions have a wait time of 10-15 minutes after the merge point, so it is entirely possible for standby to stop dead for a few minutes without anyone at load noticing.

Yeah, but if there were a backlog of people ahead of them, which was never worked through... being held up at the FP collection point doesn't actually increase your wait at all. It simply holds you in one spot instead of another.

So being worried about being held at the FP collection point for a long time while only 2 FP people went ahead of you.. is pointless. It doesn't increase your wait. It makes you wait here, instead of waiting in the queue ahead of you. Unless the queue is valuable (which in RnRC it is not) this is much ado about nothing.

Now an example of where it sucks is Indy at DL.. because waiting outside stinks compared to being able to wait in the temple itself.

 

[flynnibus]

Right now, you usually get an hour or so return window.

What if they just expanded the return window to 2 hours or more? They could keep the addition of entry 5 minutes before the return time and have a discretionary, unspoken, 30 minute window after the actual window has expired. :shrug: The cast member could use the Stand-by queue time as their guide whether to allow entry during this time. If the Stand-by queue is 10 - 15 minutes okay, but if the SB queue is 30 minutes or more no entry. Guests should expect the FP to expire at the time indicated, but this would at least allow a little flexibility

Does anyone know if this has been suggested? Not the whole extra 30 minutes thing, but an expanded return window? It seems this might make it easier to navigate a stricter FP system.

This is not desirable because it puts Disney in a judgement position controlled by a low employee. It opens you up for conflict and frustration when enforcement is seen as 'unpredictable' or simply a judgement call by someone. You'll see situations like 'They let me on this late yesterday!!' etc etc.

Disney needs to make it consistent, predictable, and enforcable to ensure CMs are not put in even more difficult situations and so guests expectations can be managed.

 

[CoasterKing]

Any CM you would ask would openly tell you, including managers, and the stormtroopers in this official Disney-sanctioned preshow said the same thing, basically enouraging the practice

Just thought of something amusing. Picture, if you will, a packed courtroom and the judge sitting there says:


Judge: You sir, are accused of using FP's late. What do you have to say for yourself.

Defendent: The Stormtroopers told me I could!

:ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

CoasterKing
:king:

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

This is not desirable because it puts Disney in a judgement position controlled by a low employee. It opens you up for conflict and frustration when enforcement is seen as 'unpredictable' or simply a judgement call by someone. You'll see situations like 'They let me on this late yesterday!!' etc etc.

Disney needs to make it consistent, predictable, and enforcable to ensure CMs are not put in even more difficult situations and so guests expectations can be managed.

Agreed. Return times need to be enforceable...which is exactly why they plan to add a grace period both before and after the return time, which I'll take advantage of if it's convenient to me (as will many other people who will be ecstatic to find out they can now 'break the rules' and use a fastpass 5 minutes early).

 

[David S.]

Boo wooo a few foamers can no longer play the system. Time to go see mummy for a diaper change you clearly have soiled yourselves over this and some of what people are posting smells that way.

Most "normal" guests follow the times on the fastpass most fan boys do as they please as they think they own the park. I bet you all feel like mummy is making you grow up and follow the rules and after running to daddy last time aka Disney he let you get away with it but now your grown up and know the rules so daddy is being strict. As predicted little fan boys is throwing his toys out the pram but baby's get over it if they are ignored and daddy Disney knows that.

This response says it best...

You know, some of you on here are very rude and don't know how to hold an adult conversation without resorting to insults. It's ridiculous how childish some of you are. Your opinion is just that.. YOUR OPINION. It's not fact yet you act like it is. Stop trying to shove how you feel down other peoples throats. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If someone likes the way they use the FP system now, so be it. It's not up to you to tell them they should feel differently because that's how you feel. It's really sad and pathetic how some of ya'll act. Grow up.

 

[flynnibus]

To further complicate this, you have rides with varying capacity, depending on how many vehicles are active. With a ride like ToT, the computer could easily compensate for added capacity when another shaft is opened, or more elevators are brought online. But when they manually bring logs into Splash, or boats into Pirates, the CMs would have to log it into a computer so that the software could adjust.

You don't want to base it on ride vehicles, etc.. because that is only a theoretical capacity, not your actual capacity. Your actual capacity is based on your dispatch interval, and how many guests fit per vehicle (which for many rides is dependent on the guests). Then look at how many seats go out empty because of party size mismatches, etc. It's not a reliable measurement if you are trying to make the standby board more reliable.

Trying to set the model based on your current ride configuration would be futile. It's far better to simply measure your actual throughput. Then you average out the guest irregularities and you measure based on your crew's performance, not the theoretical performance.

 

[David S.]

Just thought of something amusing. Picture, if you will, a packed courtroom and the judge sitting there says:


Judge: You sir, are accused of using FP's late. What do you have to say for yourself.

Defendent: The Stormtroopers told me I could!

:ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

CoasterKing
:king:

My point, though, was that Disney would not have authorized the authors of that preshow to inform and encourage a packed theatre full of guests, each and every day of Star Wars Weekends, that their FPs are valid until the park closes, if it was indeed "against the rules" to use the system that way.

The desire to even share this link all stems from the "holier than thou" types on their high horses constantly criticizing and judging those who have used a FP "late", in this and other threads, and their ignoring any evidence we present that we only did so because we were told by CMs and managers IN THE PARKS that it was not "against the rules" to do so.

So the stormtrooper clip (which I also witnessed in person) is just another bit of evidence to support the fact that EVERYTHING I have experienced in the actual parks has supported it being "within the rules" to use them "late".

The only negative connotation I have EVER seen regarding the "late" usage is on this and a few other fan forums.

For anyone wondering, here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C1KJS3aOtQ (begins around 1:55)

 

[Harryo]

Now this may cut into my drinking time!!!!!:ROFLOL:

 

[UberMouse]

I have always used my fastpass during the time indicated on the ticket. I have no problems with this.

 

[Rasvar]

I will agree that the lines may have run smoother in the pre fast pass days..however, now that we have fast pass taking it away would cause havoc.

Yep, it would. That would be a disaster. Truthfully, I am ambivalent. Whatever rule Disney sets on the FP return will be fine by me. If anyone really thinks there will be a heavy handed no flexibility policy implemented, you don't understand the hospitality industry. Now maybe there will be a courtesy stamp if a restaurant runs long or go to City Hall if there is some other thing that delayed. I am sure, after some tweaks here and there, a system will be set up to cover the "outlier" situations. Some ways that people have been doing things will have to change.

I do think it is silly to argue about "abusers." I joke about doing it, but, yeah, I use the rules as I know them to my advantage. I always will. Change the rules and I will change with them. They are not my rules to make, I only follow them. I'm surprised no one has complained about groups using single rider lines. Is it really worth getting angry at people about? I'm fine with the current system and I will be fine with the future system. Hey, maybe I will finally get to play that game in the Space Mountain queue line. I've never had a chance to do it!

 

[38053WDW]

Seems like there are far more people "whining" about us evil horrid people who dared to use a FP "late" (even though CMs and management have consistently told me it was NOT AGAINST THE RULES to do so) than there are about anything else.

It is not "selfish" or "me me me" to utilize a system to its fullest potential if you have been told by the people actually in charge of running the system itself that you are doing nothing wrong.

See post # 598 for a more detailed reply: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=4869371&postcount=598

Edit: Donald beat me to it. Good job!

why have a return time? Take that down now !! (and we wonder why lawyers are so busy) Still looking on the side of the light bulb package I bought that tells me not to eat the glass.. Can't find it so it must be ok :hammer: - See ya in 2013 Mickey.. the lastest FL pics are great !!

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

why have a return time? Take that down now !! (and we wonder why lawyers are so busy) Still looking on the side of the light bulb package I bought that tells me not to eat the glass.. Can't find it so it must be ok :hammer: - See ya in 2013 Mickey.. the lastest FL pics are great !!

In the case of a lightbulb, if every highly educated doctor tells you it's okay to eat it, go ahead. But a doctor would never say that.

For years, CM's have said it's okay to use FP's late. And in the future, it'll be okay to use FP's early. They're the authority on this. I'm sorry that it bothers you so much.

 

[flynnibus]

Which is why, if they are going to enforce the "late" times, I think they should have adjusted the system to allow guests to pick a later time than what is currently displayed before getting your Fastpass. (as others in this thread have eloquently stated).

Do you get to pick what your time to ride is when you get in a stand-by line? No. Why should you get this extra value simply because it's a FP?

I know it's FEASIBLE - but why should you be entitled to it? Why is the system bad if it doesn't give you this extra value over the other methods which you already accept? Why hold FP to a higher standard?

With the new rules, like Burried 20K League, Donald Dole Whip, and others have pointed out, you could trek all the way across the park to get a Fastpass, only to find out when you get their that the time conflicts with something else you want to do - something that may only be taking place once that day - the afternoon parade, dinner reservations, the MSEP, the final performance of Lights Motors Action that day, etc).

You mean like when you trek all the way across the park to ride something only to find out the wait is longer than you wanted to wait? Or that it's shutdown? Or that FPs are even out for the day?

This is an INFORMATION problem - not a reason to justify why guests must have the ability to pick their timeslot. This is an example of trying to post-fit a reason into a conclusion.

Enforcing the "end time" in these cases puts guests in the position where they have to chose between missing something they want or not using the FP system at this time for this attraction, which would mean walking all the way across the park for nothing - defeating the time-saving aspect of the system in the first place and playing EXACTLY into the faults its critics say it has - that it causes more backtracking and doesn't always save the time you think it does.

This is not a new point, but simply a concatenation of the previous two.

Suggesting (not you personally) that someone forgo getting a FP for a particular attraction just because the time that is available when you are next to the machine doesn't work for you sounds unnecessarily harsh, IMO

You mean just like you not being able to ride a ride because you are unwilling to wait in the expected wait time posted? Come on.. it's not harsh to say someone needs to forego getting a FP (a perk) because it doesn't fit their needs. Not getting a FP does not harm them, take anything away from them, or keep them off the attraction. It just means they have to use the stand-by line. I never realized Disney was PUNISHING all those people in standby all these years...

If you wait, backtrack later, and try to get one for the window in which you want to ride the attraction, they could be gone. Again, more backtracking for nothing, and time wasted.

Exactly like if you went and found the stand-by line unsuitable to you. Why the higher standard for FP.. and this new expectation it should save you from having to move around the park?

But, it seems unfair to me that someone who wants a LATER time that hasn't been distributed yet has no way to get one when they are right next to the machine, if they start enforcing the return times, putting them in an either/or dilemma simply because they got to the Fastpass machines randomly at the wrong time - too early!

It's not a matter of fair at all - it's simply how it works - for everyone. So it is fair.

 

[David S.]

why have a return time? Take that down now !! (and we wonder why lawyers are so busy) Still looking on the side of the light bulb package I bought that tells me not to eat the glass.. Can't find it so it must be ok :hammer: - See ya in 2013 Mickey.. the lastest FL pics are great !!

It was explained to me that the return time was used to prevent people from going too early, but that it wasn't considered "wrong" to use the FP "late". If you or anyone else has issues with this, ask Disney why this was the policy all these years. But don't blame me or others for simply using the system in a way we were told was OK.