News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Dranth]

You have it completely backwards. It’s the guests/customers that do not care about those things. WDW management care about making money, full stop. They wants guests in the park, spending. If transitions, interconnectedness or cohesion were the draw to people coming and spending, they would exploit it to the hilt. But it’s not. Those things matter to niche message board super fans. Not the general public who is filling up the park every day. This company has more analytics data for its customers based on viewing habits, surveys, magic band data, ect. If the market truly wanted those things, that’s what they would be providing, but it doesn’t.

I see your point, but I feel you are might be under selling the impact these things have a bit.

For example, I didn’t understand why I liked Disney as much as I did when I was first going to the parks with family. It certainly wasn’t the movies; this was pre-Mermaid, and I didn’t have or watch any of the “Classics” at the time. It wasn’t until I was older that I was able to recognize that it was the thought and attention to detail that was put into the design that drew me in beyond other parks I would visit.

Look at the two nighttime shows for a modern example. They are dropping both after spending a ton of money to produce these because guest scores are that bad. Why? I bet your average guest can’t pinpoint exactly what it is about these that isn’t as satisfying as previous shows. They have popular songs, popular IP, all the same elements as the shows that proceeded them plus more. Yet they failed because people noticed the difference even if only subconsciously.

All that said, you aren’t wrong, their goal is to make money and right now Chapek could stand on the train platform in MK and relieve himself on people as they came in and many would still throw money at them, before running off to pay too much for a cupcake that is 97% frosting by volume which they would then take and get a picture of themselves with it in front of a wall they can plaster on social media.

Long story short, I just don’t feel that what they are doing is sustainable long term without it having a negative impact and by taking these shortcuts now they are losing some advantages they may need again one day.

 

[Brer Panther]

All of these "average guests don't care about theming/details/non-IP attractions" claims... are you trying to say that average guests are dumb hicks who will eat up anything Disney tosses their way so long as there's an IP slapped on it?

 

[doctornick]

Because this is significantly more land and solves more problems

Oh sure. I get the benefits of doing this - if it is actually completed and done well - I'm just saying that why wouldn't they fill in the easily used Adventureland pad first and do this much larger expansion as a subsequent project.

Of course, I'd also ask why don't they replace Stich before anything else but no one is asking me.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

I see your point, but I feel you are might be under selling the impact these things have a bit.

For example, I didn’t understand why I liked Disney as much as I did when I was first going to the parks with family. It certainly wasn’t the movies; this was pre-Mermaid, and I didn’t have or watch any of the “Classics” at the time. It wasn’t until I was older that I was able to recognize that it was the thought and attention to detail that was put into the design that drew me in beyond other parks I would visit.

Look at the two nighttime shows for a modern example. They are dropping both after spending a ton of money to produce these because guest scores are that bad. Why? I bet your average guest can’t pinpoint exactly what it is about these that isn’t as satisfying as previous shows. They have popular songs, popular IP, all the same elements as the shows that proceeded them plus more. Yet they failed because people noticed the difference even if only subconsciously.

All that said, you aren’t wrong, their goal is to make money and right now Chapek could stand on the train platform in MK and relieve himself on people as they came in and many would still throw money at them, before running off to pay too much for a cupcake that is 97% frosting by volume which they would then take to get a picture of themselves with it in front of a wall they can plaster on social media.

Long story short, I just don’t feel that what they are doing is sustainable long term without it having a negative impact and by taking these shortcuts now they are losing some advantages they may need again one day.

As far as the nighttime spectaculars go, HEA proved that IP shows can be successful and accepted by the masses (even by the likes of us) when done correctly so I am not sure IP in a show is that significant of a factor. At least not at MK where the shows have always largely been IP song based.

I will concede that its definitely more of an issue for Epcot. I know the purists will never accept it there but I think it could work if done properly and tastefully and without looking and feeling like a show that should be at MK instead.

 

[Stupido]

Of course, I'd also ask why don't they replace Stich before anything else but no one is asking me.

I think with Space Mountain and Tron coming, Tomorrowland will always be a heavily trafficked area of the park. They don't need help drawing people to this area of the park, and could benefit with investing in other areas. I think Adventureland or Frontierland could use the expansion, and I'm happy to see the west side of the park maybe getting some love one day.

 

[Dranth]

As far as the nighttime spectaculars go, HEA proved that IP shows can be successful and accepted by the masses (even by the likes of us) when done correctly so I am not sure IP in a show is that significant of a factor. At least not at MK where the shows have they have always largely been IP song based.

I will concede that its definitely more of an issue for Epcot. I know the purists will never accept it there but I think it could work if done properly and tastefully and without looking and feeling like a show that should be at MK instead.

Agreed. I don't think IP is a problem, it is IP handled poorly that causes the disconnect for many people. Hence why people loved HEA but are meh about Enchantment. Both are IP fests but one works while the other doesn't. They would be smart to examine why and apply that to all their projects.

 

[Br0ckford]

that train scared the crap out of me as a kid

I remember crazy anxiety building as we got closer to that part when I was a kid. The waiting for it was brutal.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Oh sure. I get the benefits of doing this - if it is actually completed and done well - I'm just saying that why wouldn't they fill in the easily used Adventureland pad first and do this much larger expansion as a subsequent project.

Of course, I'd also ask why don't they replace Stich before anything else but no one is asking me.

My question is why don’t they just fix the numerous problems throughout all 4 parks. Fill the empty buildings. Bring back the parades. Clean the place up. I have never seen it as dirty as it is now. Make an effort to have things running the way they were intended. All this before building another land or 5th gate.

 

[crazy4disney]

I remember crazy anxiety building as we got closer to that part when I was a kid. The waiting for it was brutal.

Hahahah yep even knowing nothing wasgonna happen. Didnt matter lol

 

[DCLcruiser]

The reservation system may help control labor costs, but it does not do this.

They mention staffing each time the reservation system is discussed. They can see into the future park attendance and determine staffing requirements. They can reduce or increase or reposition staff as necessary.

 

[Amidala]

I see your point, but I feel you are might be under selling the impact these things have a bit.

For example, I didn’t understand why I liked Disney as much as I did when I was first going to the parks with family. It certainly wasn’t the movies; this was pre-Mermaid, and I didn’t have or watch any of the “Classics” at the time. It wasn’t until I was older that I was able to recognize that it was the thought and attention to detail that was put into the design that drew me in beyond other parks I would visit.

Look at the two nighttime shows for a modern example. They are dropping both after spending a ton of money to produce these because guest scores are that bad. Why? I bet your average guest can’t pinpoint exactly what it is about these that isn’t as satisfying as previous shows. They have popular songs, popular IP, all the same elements as the shows that proceeded them plus more. Yet they failed because people noticed the difference even if only subconsciously.

100%

I also think Disney has drastically overestimated how deeply guests are attached to certain IPs (namely Marvel, Star Wars and recent animated films) versus others. Coasters and other thrill rides will always attract a significant wait, which is why RNR, Tower of Terror and Splash Mountain continue to draw considerable wait times despite not featuring the latest superhero. As much as I love the ride experience, there’s no reason (from the perspective of guest satisfaction - obviously we all already know it’s a stretch as a thematic fit) Cosmic Rewind “needed” to be Guardians-themed to justify the cost of building. IMO the emphasis on IP uses “guest satisfaction” as a shield to obscure their true motive which is synergy (ie attractions and accompanying merch doubling as advertisements for recent content).

As an AP & recent former CM who visits Epcot several times a week year round, I think I can say with confidence that the guest turnout for Harmonious is no more impressive than the turnout for EF (which almost exclusively featured Epcot specific IP the average guest would have a hard time identifying) and Illuminations (which of course featured none). Guests like fireworks and music and will factor this into their plans regardless of whether or not those fireworks feature [insert character here]. Granted, of course certain IPs can and should be present SOMEWHERE at the parks for children (no brainers like Frozen, etc.) but the notion that guests “these days” will automatically lose interest in any offering that isn’t chockfull of IPs just simply isn’t true in my experience. Execs want us to believe this is true because it casts their decisions in a more generous light (“we don’t want to do this, we HAVE to in order to make that family from denver happy”) when the reality is that these decisions are 100% self-interested.

 

[crazy4disney]

Labor costs...are they hourly employees? They mention staffing each time the reservation system is discussed. They can see into the future park attendance and determine staffing requirements.

I just checked quick. There are only 7 days for the rest of theyear that dont have ALL 4 parks available and on those days 3/4 are available… 1 on Sept the rest early Oct. so anyone who has a trip planned can basically go to any park they want to.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I just checked quick. There are only 7 days for the rest of theyear that dont have ALL 4 parks available and on those days 3/4 are available… 1 on Sept the rest early Oct. so anyone who has a trip planned can basically go to any park they want to.

I would think that will change, especially for Christmas time. I'll be there in early Dec.

 

[crazy4disney]

I would think that will change, especially for Christmas time. I'll be there in early Dec.

Im not saying this will stay. But my point is majority of people have their trips booked and can choose any park to go to… if someone chooses a last minute trip andcant get into a park its not Disney’s fault and not just a Disney problem as im sure any vacation spot you book last minute you may not get top priority. Same issue w FP+ when people complained about availability

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Im not saying this will stay. But my point is majority of people have their trips booked and can choose any park to go to… if someone chooses a last minute trip andcant get into a park its not Disney’s fault and not just a Disney problem as im sure any vacation spot you book last minute you may not get top priority. Same issue w FP+ when people complained about availability

Those days are available because attendance this Q4 will be below expectations.

- People are cutting back on spending, namely vacations. This was recently revealed in some economic data.
- Disney is offering huge discounts for room stays at many resorts late Oct. through December. You don't do that if you're confident in booking this rooms at regular price.
- General distaste for Disney's recent actions are high. I think this is less of a contributing factor than the above, but it's a factor. Pay more, get less is a tough sell in our current economic and inflationary crisis.

I plan to enjoy less than normal crowds this trip in late Oct-Nov!

 

[MagicHappens1971]

They mention staffing each time the reservation system is discussed. They can see into the future park attendance and determine staffing requirements. They can reduce or increase or reposition staff as necessary.

I said that, but they do not reposition staff as frequently as you think. Not all roles have the same training.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I said that, but they do not reposition staff as frequently as you think. Not all roles have the same training.

? Sell turkey leg, trade pin, press green button on ride. How hard is this? They just have to change clothes.

Besides WS, everyone should be pretty interchangeable.

 

[crazy4disney]

Those days are available because attendance this Q4 will be below expectations.

- People are cutting back on spending, namely vacations. This was recently revealed in some economic data.
- Disney is offering huge discounts for room stays at many resorts late Oct. through December. You don't do that if you're confident in booking this rooms at regular price.
- General distaste for Disney's recent actions are high. I think this is less of a contributing factor than the above, but it's a factor. Pay more, get less is a tough sell in our current economic and inflationary crisis.

I plan to enjoy less than normal crowds this trip in late Oct-Nov!

Good luck lol.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

? Sell turkey leg, trade pin, press green button on ride. How hard is this? They just have to change clothes.

Attractions cast can not just hop from one attraction to another. They are trained typically in 1-3 attractions, but for example, someone who works Tower of Terror can not work SDMT. Merch and QSR are the easiest to move around, but my point was that it doesn’t happen nearly as often as anyone on here thinks

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

My question is why don’t they just fix the numerous problems throughout all 4 parks. Fill the empty buildings. Bring back the parades. Clean the place up. I have never seen it as dirty as it is now. Make an effort to have things running the way they were intended. All this before building another land or 5th gate.

This is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around with this. Irregardless of my thoughts on how/why these 3 fit in MK, and assuming they all got greenlit/built, why?

MK is the most visited park in the world and already has crowd issues, which is even more magnified at the cluster that is evenings. So let's make it even more popular than the 3 sister parks in the resort and do nothing to help the gulf of guests that overwhelmingly choose MK for more days of their trip vs the other 3? I have no idea of potential costs associated with a project of this magnitude, but this seems like an easy 2B+ based on recent projects or more pending Rivers of America work?

I could see putting Villains here, maybe even slot Coco and Encanto in Epcot which would make that park a sizeable draw and probably be cheaper than this expansion? Even the AK project it would seem instead of trying to possibly fit Zootopia in AK and go through any possible retheming, why not do a clone of Shanghai's (saving $) and put it in DHS where it would fit better? I have tons of questions with placemaking from all the blue-sky stuff, but from a strategy and crowd control point, just seems odd. I get more rides in MK equals more capacity, this is 3 major crowd draws too.