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News Beauty and the Beast sing-along coming to Epcot's France Pavilion

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
You can look at it that way. Except it directly contradicts the approach taken with Epcot prior to 1995. Disney used to take risks and create things we didn't know we wanted. EPCOT Center was largely at the core of that.

The problem is that many people, even after being introduced to those things, still don't want them. Even the most ardent fans of EPCOT Center must admit that the attractions of yesteryear don't always draw the crowds.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
The problem is that many people, even after being introduced to those things, still don't want them. Even the most ardent fans of EPCOT Center must admit that the attractions of yesteryear don't always draw the crowds.
Epcot's attendance peaked in 1987, again in 1997 and took until 2017 to surpass that. The piecemeal approach isn't the solution either. The attractions of yesterday needed to be replaced/updated, but the themes did not.

Look at the dedication plaque for guidance:

To all who come to this Place of Joy, Hope and Friendship
Welcome
Epcot is inspired by Walt Disney's creative vision. Here, human achievements are celebrated through imagination, wonders of enterprise and concepts of a future that promises new and exciting benefits for all.
May EPCOT Center entertain, inform and inspire and above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere.
E. Cardon Walker
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Walt Disney Productions
October 24, 1982


Celebrate discovery, celebrate cultures, inspire greatness and aspire to be better. Nothing that was announced today for Epcot, including the fanboi interim show, Epcot Forever satisfy any of these things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for the interim fireworks show, but I'm increasingly devastated that current management shows zero understanding of what made Epcot a success. It's future is questionable at best and disastrous at worst.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Epcot's attendance peaked in 1987, again in 1997 and took until 2017 to surpass that. The piecemeal approach isn't the solution either. The attractions of yesterday needed to be replaced/updated, but the themes did not.

Look at the dedication plaque for guidance:

To all who come to this Place of Joy, Hope and Friendship
Welcome
Epcot is inspired by Walt Disney's creative vision. Here, human achievements are celebrated through imagination, wonders of enterprise and concepts of a future that promises new and exciting benefits for all.
May EPCOT Center entertain, inform and inspire and above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere.
E. Cardon Walker
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Walt Disney Productions
October 24, 1982


Celebrate discovery, celebrate cultures, inspire greatness and aspire to be better. Nothing that was announced today for Epcot, including the fanboi interim show, Epcot Forever satisfy any of these things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for the interim fireworks show, but I'm increasingly devastated that current management shows zero understanding of what made Epcot a success. It's future is questionable at best and disastrous at worst.

A film like IdF is never going to fill all seats. Perhaps it once did (I don't know), but it isn't doing so now and will not so in the future, no matter how much they update it. And no amount of refurbishment was going to make Maelstrom the headliner that Frozen is. Whether we like it or not, the purist's EPCOT isn't the public's Epcot. That the attendance peaked again last year shows that large numbers of people enjoy the park in its new state. We may regret what's happened, but the claim that Disney won the public over with unexpected offerings doesn't seem tenable to me. Like it or not, what they're doing now is more popular.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
A film like IdF is never going to fill all seats. Perhaps it once did (I don't know), but it isn't doing so now and will not so in the future, no matter how much they update it. And no amount of refurbishment was going to make Maelstrom the headliner that Frozen is. Whether we like it or not, the purist's EPCOT isn't the public's Epcot. That the attendance peaked again last year shows that large numbers of people enjoy the park in its new state. We may regret what's happened, but the claim that Disney won the public over with unexpected offerings doesn't seem tenable to me. Like it or not, what they're doing now is more popular.
I'm not sure what the answer is to "fix" Epcot, I have my ideas and they aren't remotely close to what they're doing. They're changing the park, they're adding IPs, and we all knew it was happening. I had hoped they'd at least try to make it all make sense.

Disney has made three parks that have had unique unifying themes (Epcot, Animal Kingdom, Tokyo DisneySea) and they're stripping down Epcot (and to a lesser extent TDS) to become less unique.

Perhaps the original concepts of Epcot were too grand, but appealing to the lowest common denominator is not the solution. Coming up with a genuine new direction for the park that allows for logical IP integration would be better than what they're doing. They are continuing the 25 year history of piecemeal replacements and additions, with no end game in site.

Nothing they're doing is more "timeless" and "more Disney" is as vague a direction as anything.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what the answer is to "fix" Epcot, I have my ideas and they aren't remotely close to what they're doing. They're changing the park, they're adding IPs, and we all knew it was happening. I had hoped they'd at least try to make it all make sense.

Disney has made three parks that have had unique unifying themes (Epcot, Animal Kingdom, Tokyo DisneySea) and they're stripping down Epcot (and to a lesser extent TDS) to become less unique.

Perhaps the original concepts of Epcot were too grand, but appealing to the lowest common denominator is not the solution. Coming up with a genuine new direction for the park that allows for logical IP integration would be better than what they're doing. They are continuing the 25 year history of piecemeal replacements and additions, with no end game in site.

Nothing they're doing is more "timeless" and "more Disney" is as vague a direction as anything.

Isn't DisneySea full of IP, though?

To me, Epcot still feels very distinctive, and certainly less childish than the Magic Kingdom. I don't see that quality ever being lost, but I understand why you and others really don't like what's happening. Full disclosure: I first experienced the park in 1996 and found it a bit of a letdown, so I'm already less attached to the earlier incarnation than many of you guys are.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I wonder how many seats are filled for the showings of Schindler's List at The Holocaust Museum? Maybe they should replace it with some episodes of Hogan's Heroes.

With all due respect, WDW is not the Holocaust Museum and really shouldn't be equated with anything of such ethical and humanitarian significance.

Or maybe education of history is no longer important is today's America.

Yes, because Epcot is the nation's schoolroom. :rolleyes:
 

Demarke

Have I told you lately that I 👍 you?
Premium Member
Get ready for more and more and more of this at EPCOT Center. Excuse me. Disney's EPCOT.... or is it just epcot now? Or Epcot? EPCOT? EPCOToons?
In keeping with the trend of installing IP with long names, I think it’s being referred to as Walter E. Disney’s EPCOT Center: A Character-Overlay Magic Kingdom Annex: with Figment! (for now)
 

fngoofy

Well-Known Member
While all true points, I personally think they can do better than a sing-along, but that's JMO.

For me, I just never pictured a sing-along. I have no issues with a m&g. I objected to a BATB ride in France because Rat was slightly better suited and I think anything BATB should, you know, go in it's land at the MK. But it's not the absolute worst I suppose. It's just also ... lackluster. A sing-along? Really?

But the movie is staying and it's just going to be at different times. I'll live.

I think the sing along is a way to add some spice to IdF. Kids like Belle, they like sing alongs and parents and old school folk like the movie.
I think they always have a challenge to keep the kids engaged as mom and dad shop, drink,& eat their way around EPCOT.
 

GlacierGlacier

Well-Known Member
I wonder how many seats are filled for the showings of Schindler's List at The Holocaust Museum? Maybe they should replace it with some episodes of Hogan's Heroes.

Or maybe education of history is no longer important is today's America.
How disconnected from reality do you have to be to compare Schindler's List at the Holocaust museum to a short flyover film about the French landscape at a theme park in Orlando?
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
You mean Lumiere singing "After all, Miss, this is France!" in a thick French accent isn't enough to convince you? ;) You're right, of course. The problem, I think, is that all of these old European fairy tales are so timeless and placeless that it's difficult to give them specificity. Original stories like Coco and Ratatouille face less of a challenge in this regard.

IdF is splendid. It does worry me that the introduction of the singalong is a roundabout way of phasing it out, but if the powers that be really have decided to get rid of it, I think they would do so anyway.

I adore Hercules--one of my very favourites, from the aesthetics to the music. And in spite of how stylised he is, Hercules is strangely attractive to me (something else for a psychologist to explain!).
I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves Hercules! I find it hugely underrated, including the music and the aesthetics which you mention. Never considered that a romantic attraction could have been behind that growing fondness for the film!

On the general topic being debated here about this film and IP in Epcot generally, my overriding issue is that Disney just doesn't seem very creative anymore with their theme parks. In the past, they seemed to put a lot of effort into coming up with unique parks and attractions that were things you wouldn't expect or see anywhere else. Nowadays, it seems like the creative process for a project such as revamping World Showcase would involve seeing where they have space and thinking about what films they have set in each country. Sometimes the results are good (I like the Ratatouille ride at WDSP and am more positive about FEA than most), but what bothers me is that they seem stuck in the one gear. I can't imagine that even a more creative use of IP such as ToT would get approved today, for example.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
On the general topic being debated here about this film and IP in Epcot generally, my overriding issue is that Disney just doesn't seem very creative anymore with their theme parks. In the past, they seemed to put a lot of effort into coming up with unique parks and attractions that were things you wouldn't expect or see anywhere else. Nowadays, it seems like the creative process for a project such as revamping World Showcase would involve seeing where they have space and thinking about what films they have set in each country. Sometimes the results are good (I like the Ratatouille ride at WDSP and am more positive about FEA than most), but what bothers me is that they seem stuck in the one gear. I can't imagine that even a more creative use of IP such as ToT would get approved today, for example.

This is a very good point. Some of the more recent offerings, even if done well, are indeed less creative than what we had in the past. Maelstrom, for example, was certainly quirkier (and in that sense more interesting) than FEA, and the Guardians roller coaster is necessarily going to be a less distinctive attraction than what it's replacing. On the one hand, I realise this is a concerning development, but on the other, I can't pretend that some of the older attractions, original though they may have been, always hit the mark. Moreover, some of the stronger recent examples (particularly the Ratatouille ride) reassure me that Disney still has the ability to make creative use of IP. It may be the pixie dust talking, but I'm relatively hopeful for the future.
 

justintheharris

Well-Known Member
Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble but Impressions is outdated as hell and the theater is never full every time I’ve seen it.

Oh no, the movie set in France is getting in a film set in the France pavilion.

Jesus you guys really seem to overreact at everything. “RIP EPCOT”? Lol sure.
There's a middle ground. While I totally agree that people defend EPCOT and mourn it more than they have any right to, perhaps a new updated film would be nicer rather than an IP. Something about France itself rather than a fairy tale in it.
 

Br’er Rabbit

Well-Known Member
There's a middle ground. While I totally agree that people defend EPCOT and mourn it more than they have any right to, perhaps a new updated film would be nicer rather than an IP. Something about France itself rather than a fairy tale in it.

We already see that Disney isn’t willing to bulldoze everything for an IP. Canada and China are getting new films that are still focused on the country and aren’t IP based. Impressions is still here.

The outrage is a bit over the top.
 

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