Stevek
Well-Known Member
Everything looks better at night.
Theme parks. Landscaping. Fancy cars. Elderly ladies. Naked bodies.
Everything.
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Avengers Campus - Reactions / Reviews
- Thread starter BrianLo
- Start date
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
So...Avengers Campus is set in a different timeline. But the TVA prevents different timelines from occurring. And the land is acknowledging the TVA exists.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
Not only that, but a timeline where Captain America is able to marry and spend his life with Peggy wouldn't be allowed to exist, either. The best I can do to wrap my head around these inconsistencies is that the TVA allows timelines that are "close enough" to the Sacred Timeline, or ones that will not pose any sort of threat to it, to exist in some form or another. But the Blip never happens for the Avengers Campus universe so following that logic.. pretty sure that's a pretty big deviation that would get pruned.
Or maybe they don't. I don't know, I hate time travel in story telling and I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I felt like it was done in such a way that didn't make me question the logic. It's the main reason I couldn't enjoy Endgame but even when those mechanics were explained to me and I started to appreciate the film, Loki's show comes along and pretty much undoes all of it. Lame.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
Is anything really undone?
The TVA explained anything that happened was meant to happen, planned, allowed for by the TVA. Those same events play out as they are meant to in the timeline over and over again.
But what we do know is likely this show will blow it all up so the timeline can become branched and wide open, allowing for much fun multi-verse craziness.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
I don’t know? That’s part of my frustration. Obviously the show is still going so things may be explained better as time goes on but my basic understanding is that when the Avengers pulled their time heists, they created branching timelines at each of these moments. That makes sense in my mind and at the end we’re shown that Cap stayed in one where he married Peggy but then hopped back in his old age using the last of the Pym Particles to pass on the shield (presumably after Peggy dies).
But then the Loki show comes along and claims that they won’t allow even the smallest deviation from the sacred timeline to occur. If you’re late for work and that causes trouble, that leads to a hard reset of that timeline to remove the mistake. I realize what the Avengers did was “supposed” to happen but that doesn’t explain away why the TVA allowed Cap to live in his own, separate one when their first goal is to ensure that there’s only the one. So, the show claims there can only be one.. unless it’s ordained for there to be more? In which case, goal one makes no sense? We also don’t see these alternate ones on their monitors. So, maybe they allow certain ones that are “close enough” to exist, unedited? It just feels like a mess.
But I’d imagine that major changes like a lack of Blip in Avengers Campus would be addressed by them. I agree that the show will do away with the neat and tidy format and branch off into insanity (heck, it already has), but if so, then the TVA will likely ultimately fail their supposed purpose which doesn’t explain them hanging still around Avengers Campus with a captured Loki (aside from the obvious, promotion synergy stuff).
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Y'all know that Disney regularly violates the timeline of their movies when presenting their characters in the parks, right?
Villains that were killed in the movie (they all fell off a high place) are still alive in the park. You can find Ariel as both a Mermaid and a Human Princess. You can find Belle as a villager and a Princess, even though the Beast hasn't transformed into his human form and married her yet.
As for Avenger's Campus... different reality is different. If Loki is transforming in the parks, it's not because of what's happening in the MCU canon on D+, but because the Marvel Park Universe has reasons for him transforming. Parallel, but different in some ways. Which is pretty much the definition of an alternate timeline.
Villains that were killed in the movie (they all fell off a high place) are still alive in the park. You can find Ariel as both a Mermaid and a Human Princess. You can find Belle as a villager and a Princess, even though the Beast hasn't transformed into his human form and married her yet.
As for Avenger's Campus... different reality is different. If Loki is transforming in the parks, it's not because of what's happening in the MCU canon on D+, but because the Marvel Park Universe has reasons for him transforming. Parallel, but different in some ways. Which is pretty much the definition of an alternate timeline.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
Right. Normally I don’t give those sorts of things a second thought because Disney just sort of builds it and doesn’t say anything further. For me, I start to ask questions when Disney starts making specific claims about canonical connections or timelines (while simultaneously releasing an MCU show about them).
Disney builds a Snow White ride and says nothing further about story specifics or context and I don’t over analyze it or the characters in the park, because Disney Magic. But when they specifically tell me the context of something they build, I am going to look at it through that lens and judge it accordingly.
It’s a relatively new phenomenon for them and their lands/attractions, in fairness.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
Here’s another example if folks are wondering where I’m coming from, using the upcoming Splash overlay as reference:
“Although we weren't given many details about when the attraction would be opening, we do know that the musical bayou ride will follow the adventures of Princess Tiana and Louis after the film’s grand finale.”
This one statement from Disney changes the entire dynamic of how I am going to be looking at the upcoming attraction. Now, Dr. Facilier can’t just “be there” and Tiana and her Prince can’t just “be frogs” again without some kind of explanation on the ride. If Disney hadn’t said this, they could have literally just done whatever with these characters on the ride and that’d be fine with me because it’d just be “the Princess and the Frog ride” which exists totally separate from anything else.
-and if they had just built Avengers Campus and said nothing else about timelines, alternate realities, etc., I wouldn’t be giving the TVA a second thought.
“Although we weren't given many details about when the attraction would be opening, we do know that the musical bayou ride will follow the adventures of Princess Tiana and Louis after the film’s grand finale.”
This one statement from Disney changes the entire dynamic of how I am going to be looking at the upcoming attraction. Now, Dr. Facilier can’t just “be there” and Tiana and her Prince can’t just “be frogs” again without some kind of explanation on the ride. If Disney hadn’t said this, they could have literally just done whatever with these characters on the ride and that’d be fine with me because it’d just be “the Princess and the Frog ride” which exists totally separate from anything else.
-and if they had just built Avengers Campus and said nothing else about timelines, alternate realities, etc., I wouldn’t be giving the TVA a second thought.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Timelines! This is no time to argue about time! We don't have the time!
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Different universes can be exclusive. Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse doesn’t negate Loki, because it is completely separate from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. They’re both part of the large Marvel multiverse but are also their own distinct multiverses that don’t overlap (yet).
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
I suppose this is one way of looking at it.. it’s basically like saying this is a universe that is so far removed from the Sacred Timeline of the “true” MCU that it has nothing to do with it at all, yet somehow, everyone and everything in is just so basically identical that even has it’s own TVA, etc.
I guess hierarchy matters. Like, maybe multiple timelines can exist within a single universe and multiple universes can exist within a larger multiverse, yet certain jurisdictions end at the edge of each universe, for now, like you say.
The tricky part is the (yet), as our understanding of what is and isn’t possible can literally change with a newly released episode of a TV show or a feature film.
I guess so long as the wording is correct, I buy into it. As long as Avengers Campus isn’t trying to make claim that it’s a “timeline” division of the original MCU, there’s no harm, no foul because it would be it’s own separate “universe” with presumably, it’s own “Sacred Timeline” for its own TVA to enforce.
Sure it’s a little convenient to take advantage of the established MCU but in any case, I suppose still technically possible. Sort of like there being a totally different universe out there somewhere where the only difference between it and the one I’m in now being an extra scratch on my arm or something.
Looking at the two, you could forgive an outsider looking in, trying to understand, for mixing or drawing connections between the two.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
It does so you’re probably right to assume how Loki is likely to end. I wouldn’t have an issue with AC being a sub-division of a newly fractured Sacred Timeline from the MCU but it would be weird to see TVA agents still policing it if by the end of the show, they fall apart, too. Then again, all this promotional material may disappear entirely once the final episode airs in a few weeks so I guess it’s too early to know.
Professortango1
Well-Known Member
But according to the TVA, there are no alternate timelines.
waltography
Well-Known Member
I agree with this, and I'd honestly go one step further and just throw away the concept of a timeline in general when dealing with lands like Avengers Campus. It's a bit like how Main Street U.S.A. is perpetually Independence Day; Avengers Campus is a liminal space for heroes to occupy.
It's a fun bit of synergy with the new Disney+ show that's cute and more successful than the usual clumsy attempts (a la HSMTMTS featured in Tomorrowland). No need to bring the time specificity that burdened Batuu.
waltography
Well-Known Member
Spoiler for episode two:
Obviously Avengers Campus resides temporally near an apocalyptic event, and Loki's just time hopping knowing his variant energy won't affect the timeline whatsoever. 
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
This isn’t new for Marvel. It has happened over and over again. Parallel stories of the same characters who sometimes look the same who sometimes cross over and sometimes do not. Even the TVA is not new.
TragicMike
Well-Known Member
Seems pretty obvious Loki will end up with alternate timelines.
DavidDL
Well-Known Member
Right, and I understand that broader concept. I think where my general confusion for Avengers Campus comes from is the terminology that gets tossed around so loosely. See, I was under the impression originally that Avengers Campus was simply an alternate timeline derived from the original MCU that we all watch in theatres and on D+, a fair assumption given what we see is almost 1:1, talk of timelines in Endgame and which would have raised questions given the TVA's involvement with the land. However, upon further research, it is, as you said, it's own separate universe entirely named the "Marvel Theme Park Universe" (MTPU?). Likely with it's own set of branching timelines. Here is a crude illustration for what I mean.
See I originally saw Avengers Campus as one of the lines in Yellow. That is where my confusion stemmed from. When illustrated this way, though, things start to make a little more sense. Universes are their own, self contained entities in Blue while timelines exist in Red and Yellow.
But it can be easy to get confused when the shows or creators begin to toss around terms. Miss Minutes mentions that branching timelines lead to a "multiverse war", followed by all those timelines sort of twisting in on each other so one could easily make the assumption that each timeline is it's own sort of universe and thus assume the two are basically one in the same when they aren't. Maybe what she meant is that the branching timelines in Yellow can eventually break the Blue barrier and start a collision course with something like the MTPU? We saw something like this in Loki Episode 2 where they had a set amount of time to prune a timeline before it breaks past a point of no return.
My brain hurts, haha.
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