Avengers Campus - Reactions / Reviews

[Mac Tonight]

I dont like this witch hunt society we live in now. The problem is that everyone is looking for the bad and nobody is looking for the good in one another. Of course, there are real bad people that do bad things but I think we ve gone too far. Nothing is scared. Now we can just accuse people of being certain things well after they die and inevitably the herd mentality will buy in and make sure that it’s now the “truth.”

It also helps tremendously when people lived during a certain time period where it's easy to assume, "everyone was __________" (a certain way). Toppling our icons makes us feel both immediately superior and "progressive" as humans "in the 21st century"... which is all the rage online.

I think TWDC would feel a lot better if "Walt" was just a folksy "legend" who created inspired Disneyland and not the company's actual founder, smoker's cough and all.

 

[Sailor310]

I've seen or read many of the Bios on Walt. It seems at the studio he was a really tough boss-demanding and sometimes grumpy. They had the warning code, "man is in the forest" when Walt would be coming. On the other hand, back in the day, my mom was chatting with a long-term DL employee who mentioned many days where Walt would stop by and chat with her and find out how she was doing. She thought the world of him.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I've seen or read many of the Bios on Walt. It seems at the studio he was a really tough boss-demanding and sometimes grumpy. They had the warning code, "man is in the forest" when Walt would be coming. On the other hand, back in the day, my mom was chatting with a long-term employee who mentioning many days where Walt would stop by and chat with her and find out how she was doing. She thought the world of him.

I imagine if you had 10 people who worked at the studio during Walt's time write about their thoughts on the guy you'd have 10 different versions of Walt.

Heck, read something about Walt written and published by Disney vs something written by someone who isn't on the company's payroll.

Even that PBS documentary from a few years ago painted a portrait of Walt many came out and said "no that's not right".

Walt's legacy is weird in the sense that his company markets him as some sort of legend- a great purveyor of art who created magic. There's Disney's mythical depiction of Walt, and there's the actual guy that lived.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Hm? Some of the films and shorts during his time were racially insensitive, but Walt Disney wasn’t racist.

I don’t get the impression he was particularly racist for his time. He honestly was likely LESS racist than the average white man born in 1901. He would not be progressive by 2021 standards but who would be from that generation?

He was absolutely a demanding boss. Why would that surprise anyone? The Disney quality has been legendary enough to maintain a strong public image despite declining quality in recent years. Most CEOs of successful companies are demanding.

 

[Professortango1]

I've seen or read many of the Bios on Walt. It seems at the studio he was a really tough boss-demanding and sometimes grumpy. They had the warning code, "man is in the forest" when Walt would be coming. On the other hand, back in the day, my mom was chatting with a long-term employee who mentioning many days where Walt would stop by and chat with her and find out how she was doing. She thought the world of him.

Exactly. Walt wanted to be the patriarch. A beloved father figure. But he also demanded a lot of his employees. He had that mindset that employees should be married to their employer, for better or worse.

 

[Mac Tonight]

I don’t get the impression he was particularly racist for his time. He honestly was likely LESS racist than the average white man born in 1901. He would not be progressive by 2021 standards but who would be from that generation?

He was absolutely a demanding boss. Why would that surprise anyone? The Disney quality has been legendary enough to maintain a strong public image despite declining quality in recent years. Most CEOs of successful companies are demanding.

This is the bigger problem I have with our "modern" world. People so desperately want to judge the past by today's standards. You'll only set yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Professortango1]

I would think someone who could so easily throw out the “Walt was racist” claim would have an example or two in their back pocket without googling.

Attending pro-Nazi meetings and giving a tour to Leni Riefenstahl doesn't strike me as being for equality. Marc Eliot wrote a great book about the man back in the 90's.

I think a lot of it can be summed up with, "he's a man of his time." I don't want to burn him at the stake. I was just pointing out that maybe we shouldn't be so concerned with how Walt felt about certain policies considering his feelings about a lot of things are horribly outdated. "Walt wouldn't want that" is a silly statement to me all things considered.

 

[ToTBellHop]

This is the bigger problem I have with our "modern" world. People so desperately want to judge the past by today's standards. You'll only set yourself up for disappointment.

Indeed. When I saw an attack on President Lincoln for being racist, I had to stop reading. While Christopher Columbus was seemingly a monster, Lincoln??? Ridiculous. Cancel people who were monsters in their own time. Columbus knew better than to treat the locals the way he did on arrival. Lincoln was so progressive for the 19th century that he was murdered.

There’s no room for nuance anymore.

 

[Professortango1]

This is the bigger problem I have with our "modern" world. People so desperately want to judge the past by today's standards. You'll only set yourself up for disappointment.

Amen! Context is key!

 

[SuddenStorm]

Attending pro-Nazi meetings and giving a tour to Leni Riefenstahl doesn't strike me as being for equality. Marc Eliot wrote a great book about the man back in the 90's.

Hollywood's Dark Prince? That book has been actively derided and disregarded in modern Disney studies. It's outdated, at times inaccurate, and has been surpassed by all of the research and accounts that have come out since the early '90s. So much research was done into the early days of the studio and Disneyland since that book came out.

But again, you're the one saying the guy is racist. Not 'of his time', but outright racist. Please give examples of Walt displaying outright racism.

 

[Professortango1]

Indeed. When I saw an attack on President Lincoln for being racist, I had to stop reading. While Christopher Columbus was seemingly a monster, Lincoln??? Ridiculous. Cancel people who were monsters in their own time. Columbus knew better than to treat the locals the way he did on arrival. Lincoln was so progressive for the 19th century that he was murdered.

There’s no room for nuance anymore.

I think there's a fine line between letting people inspire you and making them golden idols. I remember my conservative step father going off on rants every MLK Day because the guy cheated on his wife and yadda yadda yadda. Does it diminish what he did for Civil Rights? Nope. Was he a saint? Nope. Its like Ghandi and Mother Theresa. They managed to do amazing things while also doing some pretty horrible things.

 

[Professortango1]

Hollywood's Dark Prince? That book has been actively derided and disregarded in modern Disney studies. It's outdated, at times inaccurate, and has been surpassed by all of the research and accounts that have come out since the early '90s. So much research was done into the early days of the studio and Disneyland since that book came out.

Yep, many Disney folks have pointed out the bias. Others have confirmed facts and elements. Walt probably didn't know the extent of the Nazi's plans for Jewish people, but the Nazis were pretty clear in wanting to cleanse society of them in some form.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Yep, many Disney folks have pointed out the bias. Others have confirmed facts and elements. Walt probably didn't know the extent of the Nazi's plans for Jewish people, but the Nazis were pretty clear in wanting to cleanse society of them in some form.

Wait are we talking about the rumor of Walt being racist, or him being an anti-Semite (which has also been debunked)? Because the two are not one in the same.

I understand you're trying to be 'hip' and 'edgy' but as an educator you should be holding yourself to a higher standard and go beyond a dated and biased biography that was written 30 years ago.

 

[Professortango1]

Hollywood's Dark Prince? That book has been actively derided and disregarded in modern Disney studies. It's outdated, at times inaccurate, and has been surpassed by all of the research and accounts that have come out since the early '90s. So much research was done into the early days of the studio and Disneyland since that book came out.

But again, you're the one saying the guy is racist. Not 'of his time', but outright racist. Please give examples of Walt displaying outright racism.

I think you're viewing racism as a black and white issue (no pun intended). We saw this same thinking from a few people in the Jungle Cruise chat. You don't have to don a white hood and say outright racist things to be racist. Being sympathetic to Nazis is a pretty good indicator that Walt viewed certain types of people as inferior. His artistic expressions also supported those views. Sure, he wasn't animating and directing everything the studio put out, but we all know Walt was very involved in approving and tweaking the works which bared his name.

As I said, I don't want him burned in effigy and painted like a devil. But I also refuse to cast him in gold and fix a halo over his head as well. He was a product of his time. And found himself often aligned with those who held more racist views.

 

[Professortango1]

Wait are we talking about the rumor of Walt being racist, or him being an anti-Semite (which has also been debunked)? Because the two are not one in the same.

I understand you're trying to be 'hip' and 'edgy' but as an educator you should be holding yourself to a higher standard and go beyond a dated and biased biography that was written 30 years ago.

Well, luckily I'm not teaching Walt Disney 101. And how is being an anti-Semite not the same as being racist? That's like saying "Hitler didn't like Jewish People, Black People, and Romanese People....But he wasn't racist!"

And from my reading, it hasn't been debunked at all. People have made claims both ways. But Walt's interactions with Nazis makes it pretty clear he didn't view Jewish people as equals.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I don’t get the impression he was particularly racist for his time. He honestly was likely LESS racist than the average white man born in 1901. He would not be progressive by 2021 standards but who would be from that generation?

He was absolutely a demanding boss. Why would that surprise anyone? The Disney quality has been legendary enough to maintain a strong public image despite declining quality in recent years. Most CEOs of successful companies are demanding.

I mean, America has always had progressive white people regarding racial relations. But yes, I agree.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Attending pro-Nazi meetings and giving a tour to Leni Riefenstahl doesn't strike me as being for equality. Marc Eliot wrote a great book about the man back in the 90's.

I think a lot of it can be summed up with, "he's a man of his time." I don't want to burn him at the stake. I was just pointing out that maybe we shouldn't be so concerned with how Walt felt about certain policies considering his feelings about a lot of things are horribly outdated. "Walt wouldn't want that" is a silly statement to me all things considered.

Yep, many Disney folks have pointed out the bias. Others have confirmed facts and elements. Walt probably didn't know the extent of the Nazi's plans for Jewish people, but the Nazis were pretty clear in wanting to cleanse society of them in some form.

Well, luckily I'm not teaching Walt Disney 101. And how is being an anti-Semite not the same as being racist? That's like saying "Hitler didn't like Jewish People, Black People, and Romanese People....But he wasn't racist!"

And from my reading, it hasn't been debunked at all. People have made claims both ways. But Walt's interactions with Nazis makes it pretty clear he didn't view Jewish people as equals.

Hollywood’s Dark Prince has been rather throughly shown to be little more than slanderous garbage. It seems that at some level even you realize the ridiculousness of this cite as you didn’t name the book itself. Education for Death (written by longtime Jewish employee Joe Grant) and Victory Through Airpower (personally financed by Walt) are not exactly the sort of work expected of a Nazi sympathizer. Many of the claims of Walt’s supposed sympathies are traced back to Art Babbitt.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Well, luckily I'm not teaching Walt Disney 101. And how is being an anti-Semite not the same as being racist? That's like saying "Hitler didn't like Jewish People, Black People, and Romanese People....But he wasn't racist!"

And from my reading, it hasn't been debunked at all. People have made claims both ways. But Walt's interactions with Nazis makes it pretty clear he didn't view Jewish people as equals.

Well yeah, your reading consists of an outdated and disregarded biography that came out 30 years ago. So of course your reading hasn't debunked these ridiculous claims.

Jewish people who worked at the studio have actively defended Walt against these claims. As has Floyd Norman, and others.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

If I understand correctly, Meryl Streep was a big proponent of the "Walt was racist" slander.

 

[mickEblu]

If I understand correctly, Meryl Streep was a big proponent of the "Walt was racist" crap.

I’m never watching Bridges of Madison County again!