ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
Which would be a huge loss to everyone because it would open the system up to rampant abuse again.
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Autism lawsuit court date set Feb 2020
- Thread starter Tony the Tigger
- Start date
Yep. I've loved Disney World all my life, and it's been a mainstay of our family vacations for 30 years, but we had already decided that if plaintiffs won this case, we would probably not return.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
I'm going to be brutally honest...
From the moment I read about this case, it seemed like mom neglected her most important duty - to teach her son how to learn to cope and adapt to a world that will not adapt for him. It's certainly not easy, but both of my boys know that they can't have everything their way.
Rider
Well-Known Member
Info about the study Disney did on the GAC use:
two-week study conducted by Disney’s Industrial Engineering team in April 2013, the team found
that GAC pass usage at five of the most popular attractions at Disney (the “GAC Study”) was
much higher than the percentage of guests in the park who held a GAC pass. At that time,
approximately 3.3% of guests at Disney used a GAC pass, yet the percentage of guests on the most
popular rides who had a GAC pass and entered through the FastPass line was significantly higher
than 3.3%. The GAC Study showed that 11% of riders on Space Mountain, 13% of riders on Splash
Mountain, and 30% on Toy Story Mania used a GAC pass to access the ride. Disney’s industrial
engineers concluded that the small portion of the guest population who held GAC pass was
consuming a substantial portion of the ride capacity. For example, guests with a GAC pass were
riding Toy Story Mania an average of ten times more than guests who did not have a GAC pass.
GAC guests were riding Toy Story Mania on average two to three times a day, whereas guests
without a GAC had only a 0.3 chance of getting on the ride even once.
two-week study conducted by Disney’s Industrial Engineering team in April 2013, the team found
that GAC pass usage at five of the most popular attractions at Disney (the “GAC Study”) was
much higher than the percentage of guests in the park who held a GAC pass. At that time,
approximately 3.3% of guests at Disney used a GAC pass, yet the percentage of guests on the most
popular rides who had a GAC pass and entered through the FastPass line was significantly higher
than 3.3%. The GAC Study showed that 11% of riders on Space Mountain, 13% of riders on Splash
Mountain, and 30% on Toy Story Mania used a GAC pass to access the ride. Disney’s industrial
engineers concluded that the small portion of the guest population who held GAC pass was
consuming a substantial portion of the ride capacity. For example, guests with a GAC pass were
riding Toy Story Mania an average of ten times more than guests who did not have a GAC pass.
GAC guests were riding Toy Story Mania on average two to three times a day, whereas guests
without a GAC had only a 0.3 chance of getting on the ride even once.
Rider
Well-Known Member
Disney's expert witness basically said this. They testified that allowing their child to stick to a rigid schedule that they wanted to keep (ex: same meals at the same time of day every day) was harmful to them.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
It's extremely harmful. How is he going to cope when she's no longer living to keep everything the way he wants it?
Rider
Well-Known Member
The Guest Relations employee ended up issuing
a DAS card plus four readmission passes (per person in the party), but D.L. did not feel that would
accommodate A.L. so she asked for the manager. Andie, the manager, tried to assist D.L. with
planning a route around Magic Kingdom for A.L., but D.L. explained that A.L. had his own
preferred route beginning in Adventureland and ending in Tomorrowland; in that conversation
with Andie, D.L. requested an “unlimited FastPass” to avoid a meltdown by A.L. Andie suggested
that, with the new DAS card, the party could split up so that someone “could run the path that A.L.
would [prefer to] take and secure times for each of the attractions and then circle back to find the
rest of the family” so they could all ride together, but D.L. “was appalled by that suggestion.”
One paragraph later:
However, A.L. does not have to actually go on the rides in the same pre-set order
on each visit.
The next page:
The group also
deviated from A.L.’s preferred route of attractions by not going to Pirates of the Caribbean, Big
Thunder Mountain Railroad, Country Bear Jamboree, and instead by going to eat, see characters
at meet-and-greets, shopping and watching several shows in Tomorrowland (on the other side of
the park) and Cinderella’s Castle, which were not on his preferred route and not on his list of rides.
D.L. did not make an effort to find out what the wait times were for the other rides on A.L.’s list,
nor did she have her husband, daughter, the behavioral assistant, or anyone else in the party go
ahead separately to find out the wait times. The party spent about two hours at the other attractions.
a DAS card plus four readmission passes (per person in the party), but D.L. did not feel that would
accommodate A.L. so she asked for the manager. Andie, the manager, tried to assist D.L. with
planning a route around Magic Kingdom for A.L., but D.L. explained that A.L. had his own
preferred route beginning in Adventureland and ending in Tomorrowland; in that conversation
with Andie, D.L. requested an “unlimited FastPass” to avoid a meltdown by A.L. Andie suggested
that, with the new DAS card, the party could split up so that someone “could run the path that A.L.
would [prefer to] take and secure times for each of the attractions and then circle back to find the
rest of the family” so they could all ride together, but D.L. “was appalled by that suggestion.”
One paragraph later:
However, A.L. does not have to actually go on the rides in the same pre-set order
on each visit.
The next page:
The group also
deviated from A.L.’s preferred route of attractions by not going to Pirates of the Caribbean, Big
Thunder Mountain Railroad, Country Bear Jamboree, and instead by going to eat, see characters
at meet-and-greets, shopping and watching several shows in Tomorrowland (on the other side of
the park) and Cinderella’s Castle, which were not on his preferred route and not on his list of rides.
D.L. did not make an effort to find out what the wait times were for the other rides on A.L.’s list,
nor did she have her husband, daughter, the behavioral assistant, or anyone else in the party go
ahead separately to find out the wait times. The party spent about two hours at the other attractions.
Rider
Well-Known Member
More:
Despite deviating from his preferred routes at the two parks, A.L.
experienced no meltdowns or problematic behaviors. A.L. was only upset that he did not get to see
Dapper Dans perform more than one song, which was not related to wait times, just being on time
for the show.
Disney contends that missing the Dapper Dans’ other songs “had nothing to do with DAS and is
something that could have been avoided had A.L. merely walked outside of Guest Relations” to the performance
nearby.
...
D.L. opined that she would need one readmission pass (per
person) for each of A.L.’s 19 rides on his preferred list, but she “could make it work with about
ten” for the family.
A.L. alternatively seeks a “simple promise that wait times will not exceed a certain maximum, like 15
minutes,” (Doc. 340 at 28) without suggesting how the Court would enforce such a generalized “promise.” Thus, the
Court addresses only the tangible relief A.L. has proposed: (1) unlimited access to all rides through the FastPass
lines; or (2) ten readmissions passes for all Disney parks (other than Epcot). The Court declines to consider A.L.’s
fourth request for accommodation—to give him “the ability to make appointments for attractions through the day,
but sequentially and predictably, rather than through the FastPass system” (id.) —because A.L. never raised this
option at trial and it is waived. Moreover, its practicality was never discussed thus it is unclear how this option
would modify the FastPass+ reservations made on a device in an app or the DAS card as it currently exists.
Despite deviating from his preferred routes at the two parks, A.L.
experienced no meltdowns or problematic behaviors. A.L. was only upset that he did not get to see
Dapper Dans perform more than one song, which was not related to wait times, just being on time
for the show.
Disney contends that missing the Dapper Dans’ other songs “had nothing to do with DAS and is
something that could have been avoided had A.L. merely walked outside of Guest Relations” to the performance
nearby.
...
D.L. opined that she would need one readmission pass (per
person) for each of A.L.’s 19 rides on his preferred list, but she “could make it work with about
ten” for the family.
A.L. alternatively seeks a “simple promise that wait times will not exceed a certain maximum, like 15
minutes,” (Doc. 340 at 28) without suggesting how the Court would enforce such a generalized “promise.” Thus, the
Court addresses only the tangible relief A.L. has proposed: (1) unlimited access to all rides through the FastPass
lines; or (2) ten readmissions passes for all Disney parks (other than Epcot). The Court declines to consider A.L.’s
fourth request for accommodation—to give him “the ability to make appointments for attractions through the day,
but sequentially and predictably, rather than through the FastPass system” (id.) —because A.L. never raised this
option at trial and it is waived. Moreover, its practicality was never discussed thus it is unclear how this option
would modify the FastPass+ reservations made on a device in an app or the DAS card as it currently exists.
Rider
Well-Known Member
Another study Disney did:
Specifically,
if every DAS guest were given two more readmission passes, the standby wait time at the popular
Seven Dwarfs Mine Train ride would increase by 39 minutes, from 69 to 108 minutes. The wait
times would also increase more significantly if the percentage of guests with a DAS increased, a
scenario Disney anticipated as more guests learned about the increased benefits, based on similar
problems and abuses that developed with the GAC program. Thus, for example, if all DAS guests
were given two readmission passes for their party, a 1 % increase in daily DAS users would cause
the standby wait time at Seven Dwarfs Mine train to increase by nearly an hour, from 69 minutes
to 124 minutes. Similarly, there were significant increases in wait time for the other popular rides
the industrial engineering team studied.
Specifically,
if every DAS guest were given two more readmission passes, the standby wait time at the popular
Seven Dwarfs Mine Train ride would increase by 39 minutes, from 69 to 108 minutes. The wait
times would also increase more significantly if the percentage of guests with a DAS increased, a
scenario Disney anticipated as more guests learned about the increased benefits, based on similar
problems and abuses that developed with the GAC program. Thus, for example, if all DAS guests
were given two readmission passes for their party, a 1 % increase in daily DAS users would cause
the standby wait time at Seven Dwarfs Mine train to increase by nearly an hour, from 69 minutes
to 124 minutes. Similarly, there were significant increases in wait time for the other popular rides
the industrial engineering team studied.
Rider
Well-Known Member
Wrapping up (Bolding mine):
Notwithstanding D.L.’s belief that other rides more popular than the
Jungle Cruise would have longer wait times on the day of A.L.’s December 19 visit, evidence
tracked by Disney industrial engineers on that day showed that 72% of all rides at Magic Kingdom
had posted wait times of less than 20 minutes; these wait times were posted electronically and
updated in real time with a high degree of frequency. Nearly three-quarters of the nineteen rides
and attractions that A.L. had on his preferred list had an average wait time of no more than 15
minutes; therefore, with the DAS card, A.L. would have been allowed to enter the FastPass lines
immediately for those rides (without having to even “virtually wait”). D.L. also did not try to
obtain any FastPass ahead of time.
D.L. admitted on cross examination that A.L. could have experienced all of the rides on
his preferred list, in his preferred order, by waiting in the standby lines where they were short or
by using his DAS card to immediately access the FastPass line for rides with wait times of 15
minutes or less, and he could have used his four readmission passes to immediately get on the few
rides with longer waits. However, key to optimally using the DAS card, and the short standby lines
(with waits less than 15 minutes) instead of the readmission passes, would have required D.L. to
take steps to become aware of the various wait times for A.L.’s preferred rides. The Disney app
shows the posted wait times for every ride and is constantly updated. Alternatively, D.L. could
have sent someone in their party of six people, such as A.L.’s father or sister or the therapist, to
walk ahead to the next ride in the same general area to check the sign in front of A.L.’s next
preferred ride for the posted wait times, which are also constantly updated, and obtain a return
time for the entire party with the DAS card if the wait time was too long (exceeded 20 minutes).
D.L. declined to follow the explicit advice of the Guest Relations manager (Andie) and the
DAS brochure which advised guests that “another member of your travel party may obtain a return
time” with the DAS card without having to bring A.L. to the front of the ride, which could
potentially upset him if he could not board right away. Thus, if another member of the party went
ahead with the DAS card to obtain the return time, A.L. would only have to be at the ride when it
was actually time to board the ride. The Court does not find credible D.L.’s testimony that she had
to take A.L. with her to a ride in order to obtain a return time under the new DAS system. Her
email to a Disney employee (Mark Jones) the following day complained that she was irritated at
the suggestion (by the Guest Relations manager, Andie) that they split up the party for one person
to go ahead of the group to get a return time without bringing A.L. with them to the ride
unnecessarily.
If D.L. had followed the advice given at Guest Relations and used the DAS card properly,
the evidence at trial showed A.L. could effectively wait “virtually” for the return time when
necessary (if it was more than 20 minutes) because he could be effectively redirected so that he
would not have a meltdown. However, instead of checking the posted wait times for any of the
rides, D.L chose not to make any sincere attempt to test out the new DAS card, despite having as
a back-up the remaining 18 individual readmission passes in case she needed them. In fact, D.L.’s
party did not use any of the 18 remaining readmission passes that day. D.L. erroneously believed
that if the posted wait time at the Jungle Cruise ride was forty minutes, then the other wait times
would be even longer.
...
For individuals with autism transitioning from the former GAC system to the new DAS
system, Dr. Kelderman opined, the goal is to build as much predictability into the environment as
possible and then attempt to reduce the maladaptive behavior; for A.L., visual schedules and visual
supports should be used to make it an easier transition. The importance of preplanning for autistic
individuals is stressed in Disney’s Guide for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities. D.L. did no
preplanning whatsoever to prepare A.L. for the transition from unlimited access under GAC to the
new DAS system, even though D.L. had discussed the new system with two Disney employees
prior to the visit. D.L. emphasized in her testimony that she plans for A.L. “every day,” 365 days
a year.
By all accounts, A.L. has worked hard and has made a great deal of progress in improving
his maladaptive behaviors over the years; his reward has been a semi-annual trip to a Disney park.
D.L.’s prominence and activism in the autism community speaks to her knowledge of autism and
her dedication to her son and other autistic individuals. It is all the more surprising then that she
did no preplanning with A.L. to make a sincere effort before their first visit with the new DAS
system. Even though D.L. successfully uses visual aids such as scheduling and videos with A.L.
generally, she chose not to review any visual aids with him before the December 19 visit to Magic
Kingdom. When pressed on why she did not do any preplanning to prepare A.L. for the change to
DAS, as recommended by the Guide for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities (beyond emailing
Disney employees for readmission passes), D.L. explained:
"I honestly felt based on -- on my history with Disney and doing the right thing and
supporting those with disabilities that when we got there and I showed them [A.L.]
-- right? Nobody had met [A.L.] until I brought him into guest relations. So they
could clearly see that he was very involved. And I thought based on him and his
size and his behaviors, that by seeing him, they would know that, in fact, the
individual had autism and would need additional accommodations."
D.L. further admitted on cross-examination that she had fully anticipated that the accommodations
would not only be the DAS card, but in addition, accelerated access for all of the attractions that
A.L. wanted to visit that day, out of his list of 19 rides. In other words, D.L. anticipated that A.L.
would be accommodated with the equivalent of the old GAC system, with unlimited access to all
FastPass lines that would require no waiting and no pre-planning. The Court finds that Disney’s
DAS card provides A.L. with a “like,” if not better, experience and equal enjoyment than
nondisabled guests experience.
...
A.L.’s proposed modification of ten readmission passes would essentially be like returning
to the unlimited access to FastPass lines similar to the GAC system. Especially with the opening
of new high-demand attractions like Stars Wars—Rise of the Resistance and Pandora, the demand
by DAS cardholders for an additional ten readmission passes will certainly displace those without
DAS cards. As Disney experienced with the GAC system, when a popular new ride at Disneyland
opened, it drove a 40% increase in demand for GAC passes. When 3% of the guests admitted with
GAC passes use a disproportionate 30% of a popular ride’s capacity, the system is not working
the way it was designed and it is certainly working to the disadvantage of the non-GAC holding
guests. The word spreading on social media that one disabled individual received an
accommodation of ten readmission passes will increase the demand to be treated similarly by every
disabled individual once they find out, as well as those willing to misrepresent they are disabled,
until the exception for a “reasonable” request for readmission passes ends up swallowing the whole
disability access system, once again, as it did with GAC.
The Court finds that A.L.’s proposed modification for unlimited access to the FastPass
lines, or for ten readmission passes per person in his party, which amounts to virtually the same
thing as unlimited FastPass access, is not a “reasonable” accommodation.
Notwithstanding D.L.’s belief that other rides more popular than the
Jungle Cruise would have longer wait times on the day of A.L.’s December 19 visit, evidence
tracked by Disney industrial engineers on that day showed that 72% of all rides at Magic Kingdom
had posted wait times of less than 20 minutes; these wait times were posted electronically and
updated in real time with a high degree of frequency. Nearly three-quarters of the nineteen rides
and attractions that A.L. had on his preferred list had an average wait time of no more than 15
minutes; therefore, with the DAS card, A.L. would have been allowed to enter the FastPass lines
immediately for those rides (without having to even “virtually wait”). D.L. also did not try to
obtain any FastPass ahead of time.
D.L. admitted on cross examination that A.L. could have experienced all of the rides on
his preferred list, in his preferred order, by waiting in the standby lines where they were short or
by using his DAS card to immediately access the FastPass line for rides with wait times of 15
minutes or less, and he could have used his four readmission passes to immediately get on the few
rides with longer waits. However, key to optimally using the DAS card, and the short standby lines
(with waits less than 15 minutes) instead of the readmission passes, would have required D.L. to
take steps to become aware of the various wait times for A.L.’s preferred rides. The Disney app
shows the posted wait times for every ride and is constantly updated. Alternatively, D.L. could
have sent someone in their party of six people, such as A.L.’s father or sister or the therapist, to
walk ahead to the next ride in the same general area to check the sign in front of A.L.’s next
preferred ride for the posted wait times, which are also constantly updated, and obtain a return
time for the entire party with the DAS card if the wait time was too long (exceeded 20 minutes).
D.L. declined to follow the explicit advice of the Guest Relations manager (Andie) and the
DAS brochure which advised guests that “another member of your travel party may obtain a return
time” with the DAS card without having to bring A.L. to the front of the ride, which could
potentially upset him if he could not board right away. Thus, if another member of the party went
ahead with the DAS card to obtain the return time, A.L. would only have to be at the ride when it
was actually time to board the ride. The Court does not find credible D.L.’s testimony that she had
to take A.L. with her to a ride in order to obtain a return time under the new DAS system. Her
email to a Disney employee (Mark Jones) the following day complained that she was irritated at
the suggestion (by the Guest Relations manager, Andie) that they split up the party for one person
to go ahead of the group to get a return time without bringing A.L. with them to the ride
unnecessarily.
If D.L. had followed the advice given at Guest Relations and used the DAS card properly,
the evidence at trial showed A.L. could effectively wait “virtually” for the return time when
necessary (if it was more than 20 minutes) because he could be effectively redirected so that he
would not have a meltdown. However, instead of checking the posted wait times for any of the
rides, D.L chose not to make any sincere attempt to test out the new DAS card, despite having as
a back-up the remaining 18 individual readmission passes in case she needed them. In fact, D.L.’s
party did not use any of the 18 remaining readmission passes that day. D.L. erroneously believed
that if the posted wait time at the Jungle Cruise ride was forty minutes, then the other wait times
would be even longer.
...
For individuals with autism transitioning from the former GAC system to the new DAS
system, Dr. Kelderman opined, the goal is to build as much predictability into the environment as
possible and then attempt to reduce the maladaptive behavior; for A.L., visual schedules and visual
supports should be used to make it an easier transition. The importance of preplanning for autistic
individuals is stressed in Disney’s Guide for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities. D.L. did no
preplanning whatsoever to prepare A.L. for the transition from unlimited access under GAC to the
new DAS system, even though D.L. had discussed the new system with two Disney employees
prior to the visit. D.L. emphasized in her testimony that she plans for A.L. “every day,” 365 days
a year.
By all accounts, A.L. has worked hard and has made a great deal of progress in improving
his maladaptive behaviors over the years; his reward has been a semi-annual trip to a Disney park.
D.L.’s prominence and activism in the autism community speaks to her knowledge of autism and
her dedication to her son and other autistic individuals. It is all the more surprising then that she
did no preplanning with A.L. to make a sincere effort before their first visit with the new DAS
system. Even though D.L. successfully uses visual aids such as scheduling and videos with A.L.
generally, she chose not to review any visual aids with him before the December 19 visit to Magic
Kingdom. When pressed on why she did not do any preplanning to prepare A.L. for the change to
DAS, as recommended by the Guide for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities (beyond emailing
Disney employees for readmission passes), D.L. explained:
"I honestly felt based on -- on my history with Disney and doing the right thing and
supporting those with disabilities that when we got there and I showed them [A.L.]
-- right? Nobody had met [A.L.] until I brought him into guest relations. So they
could clearly see that he was very involved. And I thought based on him and his
size and his behaviors, that by seeing him, they would know that, in fact, the
individual had autism and would need additional accommodations."
D.L. further admitted on cross-examination that she had fully anticipated that the accommodations
would not only be the DAS card, but in addition, accelerated access for all of the attractions that
A.L. wanted to visit that day, out of his list of 19 rides. In other words, D.L. anticipated that A.L.
would be accommodated with the equivalent of the old GAC system, with unlimited access to all
FastPass lines that would require no waiting and no pre-planning. The Court finds that Disney’s
DAS card provides A.L. with a “like,” if not better, experience and equal enjoyment than
nondisabled guests experience.
...
A.L.’s proposed modification of ten readmission passes would essentially be like returning
to the unlimited access to FastPass lines similar to the GAC system. Especially with the opening
of new high-demand attractions like Stars Wars—Rise of the Resistance and Pandora, the demand
by DAS cardholders for an additional ten readmission passes will certainly displace those without
DAS cards. As Disney experienced with the GAC system, when a popular new ride at Disneyland
opened, it drove a 40% increase in demand for GAC passes. When 3% of the guests admitted with
GAC passes use a disproportionate 30% of a popular ride’s capacity, the system is not working
the way it was designed and it is certainly working to the disadvantage of the non-GAC holding
guests. The word spreading on social media that one disabled individual received an
accommodation of ten readmission passes will increase the demand to be treated similarly by every
disabled individual once they find out, as well as those willing to misrepresent they are disabled,
until the exception for a “reasonable” request for readmission passes ends up swallowing the whole
disability access system, once again, as it did with GAC.
The Court finds that A.L.’s proposed modification for unlimited access to the FastPass
lines, or for ten readmission passes per person in his party, which amounts to virtually the same
thing as unlimited FastPass access, is not a “reasonable” accommodation.
The judge basically tore the mom a new one. The judge went out of her way to show all the ways the son was able to wait more than 20 minutes and was flexible in his routine. The judge went of her way to show that the mom could have had a perfectly good experience if she only gave the new system a try.
The judge basically laid out the severe issue of inflexibility... of the mom.
The judge also basically called the mom a liar for saying this was just about her son, and then in social media, presenting herself publicly, by name, as fighting for everyone.
My favorite part was the judge pointing out that her arguing with the CMs about the new system meant the son missed the first item of his must-do list, and the son was unperturbed by it.
The judge basically laid out the severe issue of inflexibility... of the mom.
The judge also basically called the mom a liar for saying this was just about her son, and then in social media, presenting herself publicly, by name, as fighting for everyone.
My favorite part was the judge pointing out that her arguing with the CMs about the new system meant the son missed the first item of his must-do list, and the son was unperturbed by it.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
FWIW, there is absolutely merit to the "order". My brother is autistic (not just on the spectrum), lives in a group home, cannot function without supervision, etc. He absolutely has his preferred order in the Magic Kingdom:
- Jungle Cruise
- Pirates of the Caribbean
- Splash or Thunder (haven't seen a preference as to which one has to be first)
- Haunted Mansion
- Peter Pan's Flight
- it's a small world
Having said that, we've been able to accommodate this just fine with DAS and Fastpass+ and my brother hasn't had much issue. Occasionally one of us (usually me) will run ahead to secure a DAS and I would absolutely welcome being able to book that directly on the app like a Fastpass, but I also understand why they wouldn't do that.
mergatroid
Well-Known Member
I get no satisfaction that this child may not enjoy Disney as much following this decision. However, for the benefit of lots of other people with disabilities, I'm pleased with the judges decision.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
He's not a child. And mom was basically proven to be lying.