Ariel's Undersea Adventure to be a submarine ride?

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I don't know what it is about the Epcot nemo ride, but it is one I'll rank the lowest in all of WDW. It's not bad, it's just something kinda cheap about it I guess. Maybe because it's just screens and you're facing one direction the whole time, but sometimes thinking about riding it is similar to star tours in that it's a job rather than something I'd want to do.

Hmm. That's an interesting take on it. I think it helps for me that I rode the 14+ minute long epic E Ticket version of Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage before I rode the Epcot Nemo Seas 5 minute Omnimover version. My point of reference was the E Ticket submarine ride, and so I wasn't expecting much of The Seas version, but was just happy to get the Seacabs back.

But when I went on The Seas with Nemo ride, it was a nice, upbeat, witty entrance into The Seas pavilion. I was pleasantly surprised, and I liked that it was sort of a Cliffs Notes version of the longer, grander Disneyland plotline, with a few different twists. And it certainly breathed new life into the dying Seas pavilion.

What can't be understated however, is how truly mezmerizing the Disneyland submarine ride is for kids under the age of 6 or 7. It's that same demographic that still believes in Santa Claus, and for them they really believe they are diving deep underwater in a real submarine. It's a priceless Disneyland experience that has been very smartly updated and freshened for the 21st century. Plus it just provides a snazzy, uniquely Disney vista to see the fleet of subs gliding through the blue lagoon. Bravo Imagineers!

8_09_DL_01256_0.jpg


Interestingly, the 2007 Nemo version of the submarines is several minutes longer than the original 1959 version of the ride, owing to a slower vehicle speed once you enter the "Dark Ride" portion inside the caverns. It's a complete reversal of the trend to shorter and briefer ride experiences, by tacking on several more minutes of ride time to a 1959 concept.

Which gets us back OT to Little Mermaid. If the interiors of this Mermaid ride are as elaborate and engaging as has been reported, and what is hinted at in the Blue Sky Cellar exhibits, then I wonder if a 6 minute ride time will leave folks satisfied? Nemo proves that a 14+ minute ride time can still satisfy 21st century audiences, if the story and experience is engaging enough.
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
You`re not serious are you??

It's essentially the same concept, I never said Disneyland's wasn't far superior in every way... because it is. FNSV is an amazing ride, Epcot Nemo is a joke.

There's a reason ours is called "Nemo Lite", though... it's the same basic idea as Disneyland's, just executed horrendously wrong.

Disneyland's version just proves that environment is everything.

SIDEBAR:
Lee, weren't there initial plans (LONG time ago) to convert the subs to Mermaid? Like in the period right before or right after closing of 20K?
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
It's essentially the same concept,
I doubt you can say that. Both are called Nemo, both use projection technology, but it ends there. What about Crush's Coaster in WDSP? That has a dark ride portion identical in many respects to The Seas, but is a rollercoaster. You can`t compare that either.

It`s like calling Test Track and JTTCOTE the same because they have the same ride system, or rather calling the Indy EMVs, DHS's stunt show and DLPs Temple of Peril coaster the same because they are all about Raiders.

DLs Subs, Epcots Seas and WDSPs Coaster are all themed on Nemo and share similar tech and part of a loose storyline in sections. Aside from that the format and execution is totally different and thus can`t be compared as versions of the same ride.

IMHO as always.

And yes, Epcots was done on the cheap. And they had to fight for the budget to get that far. It`s better than the mess TDO let TLS fall into after UT left, but is so flawed it does hit a nerve, when like so much it could have been far better for not a lot more outlay.
 

JimboJones123

Well-Known Member
I doubt you can say that. Both are called Nemo, both use projection technology, but it ends there. What about Crush's Coaster in WDSP? That has a dark ride portion identical in many respects to The Seas, but is a rollercoaster. You can`t compare that either.

It`s like calling Test Track and JTTCOTE the same because they have the same ride system, or rather calling the Indy EMVs, DHS's stunt show and DLPs Temple of Peril coaster the same because they are all about Raiders.

DLs Subs, Epcots Seas and WDSPs Coaster are all themed on Nemo and share similar tech and part of a loose storyline in sections. Aside from that the format and execution is totally different and thus can`t be compared as versions of the same ride.

IMHO as always.

And yes, Epcots was done on the cheap. And they had to fight for the budget to get that far. It`s better than the mess TDO let TLS fall into after UT left, but is so flawed it does hit a nerve, when like so much it could have been far better for not a lot more outlay.

See, I don't see it as cheap at all.

I would call it cheap if they DIDN'T use all the screen technology and added cutouts like Snow White and Pooh with oversized rooms that made the ride half the length it is.

By tying it together with the Nemo stage show music at the end, and amazing underwater projections, I would put it down as a absolutely different attraction.

Sure a few scenes are similar, but the overall ride experience is vastly different.

I think the ride is pretty kickbutt.

Take yourselves out of your little cynical boxes for a moment and compare it to the other dark rides left at WDW (since they killed a few of the best -- and I am not talking about Toad -- Nemo DESTROYS Toad)

Snow White - Nemo Better
Pan - Toss Up
Pooh - Nemo Better
Figment - Nemo Better
SSE - Ride time makes SSE better
TSMM - TSMM Better
Buzz - Toss Up
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
Both are called Nemo, both use projection technology, but it ends there.

That's basically what I meant lol. They both tell the same story and they both use projections to tell it. Epcot's is just a dumbed down version of it, which fully shows and sets the two rides completely apart. I didn't necessarily mean that they were exact copies of one another.

Disneyland got much nicer sets and the benefit of a preexisting ride system with a significantly higher budget. If our sub lagoon hadn't been destroyed (or if theirs had been torn out as well, on the flip side) I'm sure there's at least a chance that we would have gotten the same ride (or vice versa) since they both were ultimately developed off of the same jumping point.

Like I said... environment is everything, and FNSV proves it.

Snow White - Nemo Better
Pan - Toss Up
Pooh - Nemo Better
Figment - Nemo Better
SSE - Ride time makes SSE better
TSMM - TSMM Better
Buzz - Toss Up

I think that you're going to find yourself in the VAST minority on that list. Especially listing "ride time" as the only thing pushing the majesty and genius of SSE above Nemo.
 

Lee

Adventurer
DisneyExpert said:
SIDEBAR:
Lee, weren't there initial plans (LONG time ago) to convert the subs to Mermaid? Like in the period right before or right after closing of 20K?
I am unaware of such plans.
I yield the question to the gentleman from Manchester.
 

brkgnews

Well-Known Member
I am unaware of such plans.
I yield the question to the gentleman from Manchester.
Oooh... Martin's Question Time. "The right honourable gentleman from Manchester."

*misses the days of watching Betty Boothroyd and Paddy Ashdown hash it out on BBC Parliament via C-SPAN*.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Lee... you`re too kind!

WDWs Subs to Mermaid? Not that I know of. 20K went down for a planned refurb in 1994 and was posted as reopening in December of that year, but never did.

Now there was a plan for The Living Seas to get a makeover to Aerial and the gang as part of Gemini.
 

SeaCastle

Well-Known Member
Lee... you`re too kind!

WDWs Subs to Mermaid? Not that I know of. 20K went down for a planned refurb in 1994 and was posted as reopening in December of that year, but never did.

Now there was a plan for The Living Seas to get a makeover to Aerial and the gang as part of Gemini.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Lee Cockerell in part responsible for closing down the Subs when he took over as president of Attractions in '94?
 

Testtrack321

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm just in denial that anyone would be that stupid to make those plans, but I always thought Gemini was a highly conceptual, "lets give the new guys something to do" plan, never something actually looked at for Epcot? :shrug:
 

SeaCastle

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm just in denial that anyone would be that stupid to make those plans, but I always thought Gemini was a highly conceptual, "lets give the new guys something to do" plan, never something actually looked at for Epcot? :shrug:

Nope, it was a real concept, and from what I've read, made it pretty far up the approval ladder. A few projects part of the larger "Project Gemini" moniker happend, too- like Soarin'.
 

Testtrack321

Well-Known Member
Nope, it was a real concept, and from what I've read, made it pretty far up the approval ladder. A few projects part of the larger "Project Gemini" moniker happend, too- like Soarin'.

A rollercoaster infront of The Land and a thrill ride in Spaceship Earth gives me a heart attack...


Why won't Disney just give us back 20,000 Leagues? It was always a popular attraction and a beautiful area.

Well, it'd be an ADA nightmare, evacuation nightmare, high cost of maintenance, and would take up a lot of space.

While I too enjoyed 20k, I feel that money is better spent on other attractions.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Well, it'd be an ADA nightmare, evacuation nightmare, high cost of maintenance, and would take up a lot of space.

Those are all just excuses that all can be overcome. And that already have.

Disneyland's Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage, with a fleet of 8 submarines gliding through the water right now as you read this, is living proof of that. The 2006-07 submarine rehab and upgrade solved all of those issues, and even more that TDO would never have to worry about in their WDW parks.

Heck, Disneyland even expanded out the caverns quite a bit to create more show space for the 11 minute long dark ride portion of the 14+ minute attraction. They needed that extra space to tell the story better, so they... built it. :eek:

Perhaps you didn't realize that in order to meet the 21st century Air Quality Management District smog goals and gain some AQMD credits that Disneyland retrofitted the entire fleet of subs from diesel engines to an advanced underwater linear induction magnetic-electrical system? Instead of belching diesel fumes, the Disneyland submarines now glide silently by electro-magnetic motors. WDW would never have to worry about those types of governmental issues to pacify the local AQMD smog board. It's a much more restrictive legislated environment in California, but Disneyland has risen to meet and exceed those additional standards as well.

Here's a CNBC article about it. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19175500/ns/business-cnbc_tv/

So many excuses get tossed around for why TDO can't or won't or shouldn't do something that would be fun for its visitors. At some point you just have to stop with the excuses and simply question why WDW can't do the things they used to do.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
I don't. Care to share? What was supposed to go in to The Seas With Nemo and Friends? Revolving Omnimover clamshell cars? Different effects? I'm curious.
In brief, the budget for Imagination was taken and added to The Seas (thank god) to bring us what Seas with Nemo ended up as.

It could have been far worse. For both pavilions.
 

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