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Alleged changes to Pirates?

Discussion in 'Politics and Social Issues' started by mharrington, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. Curious Constance

    Curious Constance Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, I'll check it out!
     
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  2. SuddenStorm

    SuddenStorm Well-Known Member

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    What other explanations are there?

    I hadn't heard of anyone being offended by this until the changes were announced- but if this scene didn't bother anyone, I'd guess Disney wouldn't change it.
     
  3. Dr. Hans Reinhardt

    Dr. Hans Reinhardt Well-Known Member

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    Like I said before this is likely the outcome of an internal inventory of how the WDCo represents women as part of its overall diversity and inclusion strategy across all business divisions or something similar. Remember the WDCo has 195,000 global employees and is growing. It's also not a coincidence that the change is being driven by a female executive at WDI. This is exactly the type of thing that corporations leverage to make their brand more appealing not only to consumers but for recruiting/retention purposes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  4. Hatbox Ghostbuster

    Hatbox Ghostbuster Well-Known Member

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    I knew I liked you :)

    Thank you for articulating your points and raising very valid concerns over this way of societal leanings. And most importantly, thank you for raising your children to not be ashamed of who they are, even if society thinks that they should, or should fit into a certain box of stereotypes.
     
  5. Professortango1

    Professortango1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, America doesn't really have a torture problem or arson problem. We do have a rape problem though. And rape is perpetuated by rape culture and rape culture is perpetuated by showing women as objects to be bought or won. That's why that's the issue that people don't take pleasure in while in a theme park.
     
  6. Curious Constance

    Curious Constance Well-Known Member

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    So there is rape because we live in a rape culture?
    There is a way to eliminate rape completely if we just stop showing women a certain way?
    Do we have a murder culture too? Because there are murder problems.
    And I can tell you my state is currently basically entirely on fire due to several arsonists. So we must also have an arsonist culture too.
     
  7. Professortango1

    Professortango1 Well-Known Member

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    There is rape for a variety of reasons, but rape culture helps escalate the problem by subtly training men since they are children that women are objects.

    We can never eliminate rape, but we can reduce the occurrence by being mindful of what young minds are being taught socially.

    There are murders in the US, but murder is usually known to be murder when it is committed. Many rapists don't believe it was rape because "she was asking for it/ I bought her dinner/ she said it was okay earlier/ she never said it wasn't ok/ etc." Murders are committed by people knowingly committing a crime. Rape often occurs without that self aware knowledge. Social training had helped create that disconnect.

    1 in 6 US college women are raped. I don't think arson occurs on nearly the same level. Also, see above.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  8. SuddenStorm

    SuddenStorm Well-Known Member

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    The definition of rape culture, pulled from Google, is "a society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse."

    I know it's a term people like to throw around, but I really don't believe today's society qualifies as such. From a young age, everyone is taught what safe, consensual sex is. I haven't met anyone who thinks rape is normal, or something that's trivial. Any kind of sexual harassment is taken very seriously. Even today's films are showing women is strong, independent roles.

    Is rape a problem? Yes, absolutely. But in no way does that mean we live in a "rape culture." We live in a society where rape is a huge deal, and is something that people know is wrong and are actively trying to eliminate.
     
  9. Professortango1

    Professortango1 Well-Known Member

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    We are starting to see a change, but instances like Brock Turner tell us that we have a ways to go still.
     
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  10. Dr. Hans Reinhardt

    Dr. Hans Reinhardt Well-Known Member

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    That's debatable. Too often it only becomes a societal priority when it makes headlines, and even then the claims are subject to be biased against the victims. See: Bill Cosby, Roger Ailes, Bill O'Reilly, Bill Clinton, Eric Bolling, a host of Catholic priests, etc. Education Secretary Betsy Devos' attack on Title IX policies protecting college students from sexual assault and harassment is another example of how even the federal government doesn't always take sexual violence seriously.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  11. SuddenStorm

    SuddenStorm Well-Known Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner

    I'm not sure I understand your point.

    Reading up on the case, it looks like two people intervened during the rape (since society doesn't trivialize rape).

    It also looks like there was a public outcry because society as a whole felt his sentence wasn't harsh enough. From Wikipedia:

    "In the immediate aftermath of the case, widespread public criticism emerged, accusing Persky of judicial bias in favor of male and classprivilege,[15] leading to campaigns for his recall or resignation. The Santa Clara County Bar Association and public defenders defended Persky, saying that the sentence was based upon the probation report as well as being consistent with similar cases, and stated that his removal would be a "threat to judicial independence".[16][17] The victim impact statement to the court was also widely disseminated by international media outlets, fueling a resurgence of the wider debate regarding the prevalence of campus sexual assault overall. Her statement described her suffering in vivid detail, dissecting and criticizing Turner's actions both during and after the assault, and criticizing the probation department's recommendation of a short sentence for Turner. According to Vice News, the case had become "the latest, controversial episode in an ongoing debate sweeping the U.S. about rape culture, privilege in the criminal justice system, and campus safety".[18]

    On November 1, 2016, Glamour Magazine named "Emily Doe" a woman of the year for "changing the conversation about sexual assault forever", citing her statement that has been read over 11 million times.[19] The case influenced the California legislature to toughen sexual assault laws by requiring prison terms for rapists whose victims were unconscious and including digital penetration in the penal code's definition of rape."

    If anything, this seems to reinforce my point that we do not live in a "rape culture" or that society teaches males to treat women as objects. Two males intervened to protect the intoxicated women- which wouldn't have happened if they thought of her as an object.

    Brock Turner is a rapist, but society did not in any way trivialize or normalize his actions, which is what would have had to happen for our society to have a "rape culture"

    But, this is way off topic. Sorry mods.
     
  12. Practical Pig

    Practical Pig Well-Known Member

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    Some of my recent posts may make it seem that I support the change. That’s not it exactly. I’m not in favor of sanitizing the past, and Disney plays it too safe for my own tastes. But I try to look at this from a broader viewpoint than my own.

    I believe what @TROR said about the CMs receiving complaints about the fat-shaming rather than the auction itself, though I don't think that's the entire issue here. What @mickEblu said about the scene being focused on women being sold into matrimony rather than explicitly into sexual slavery echoes exactly what X Atencio had to say about it, and it does go a long way to cushion the context. And unless I've missed something, the female perspective on this thread, is unanimously against the changes that, it may be argued, are supposed to protect feminine psyches.

    But for reasons I've said before, I see the change as inevitable, and I believe Disney anticipates a looming PR situation that is best dealt with before it strikes. And of all that’s been said about why it’s happening now, I think @Dr. Hans Reinhardt has likely sussed it out most accurately about it being driven from within for (simplifying for brevity) internal political corporate reasons.
     
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  13. Practical Pig

    Practical Pig Well-Known Member

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    Something I don't think belongs in this discussion are callous, dismissive insults of "snowflake." If someone else has a different reaction than you do to the same experience, it is probable that their life experience has justified it.

    I have been through POTC with a female friend, a Disney fan with long experience. She has weight issues stemming from an abusive past that I don't care to detail here. When we passed the auction scene, her smile faded, and she looked elsewhere. I won’t pretend to know what she was feeling or what element caused it (we didn’t discuss it), and whatever it was, she processed it internally and quickly moved on. But when I think about this change, I think of her, and that flash of sadness.

    She's not a "snowflake." She's a survivor.
     
  14. Dr. Hans Reinhardt

    Dr. Hans Reinhardt Well-Known Member

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    Same here.
     
  15. Professortango1

    Professortango1 Well-Known Member

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    Getting a light sentence for rape IS trivializing rape.

    You can deny rape culture exists, but the signs are quite apparent.
     
  16. raven24

    raven24 Well-Known Member

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    On average, how many rape cases in the US include the rapist getting a light sentence or no sentence at all?
     
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  17. Professortango1

    Professortango1 Well-Known Member

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    Many that involve "good kids" and inebriated women.

    When a student takes advantage of a dellow student, it is often treated as "not real rape."
     
  18. SuddenStorm

    SuddenStorm Well-Known Member

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    One judge doesn't determine the views of society as a whole.
     
  19. raven24

    raven24 Well-Known Member

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    Where is the information? The facts? Statistics, data, etc. How many rapists either don't receive what would be considered just time or any time at all?
     
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  20. Professortango1

    Professortango1 Well-Known Member

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