A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

[ParentsOf4]

@ParentsOf4 - very interested to hear your thoughts on this.

I understand the business thinking behind Disney's attempt to take over EuroDisney but for some reason I am reminded of the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and the United States' invasion in 2001 ...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Money pit is right. Euro Disney SCA 2016 Reference Document states:

The Group has regularly incurred losses and is not certain to generate profits in the near future.
The Group’s net loss for Fiscal Year 2016 amounted to €858 million, compared to a net loss of €102 million and
€114 million in Fiscal Years 2015 and 2014, respectively​

Losses due to licensing fees owed to The Walt Disney Company.
Losses due to operating fees owed to The Walt Disney Company.
Losses due to debt payments to The Walt Disney Company.

 

[SorcererMC]

Disneyland Paris is a money pit because of its debt. That debt was bought by Disney a few years ago. Wholly owning Euro Disney SCA makes it far easier for the albatross to finally go away.

Very true, but their weak position means that they are exceptionally vulnerable to external economic and geopolitical factors, not likely going away any time soon. ETA: It's the debt + factors outside of their control.

ETA2: Attendance is down to 13.4 mln from 14.8 mln in 2015.

 

[ford91exploder]

Losses due to licensing fees owed to The Walt Disney Company.
Losses due to operating fees owed to The Walt Disney Company.
Losses due to debt payments to The Walt Disney Company.

Yet all caused by insufficient TOP LINE revenue to support the park, DLP could owe money instead to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and it would not change the fact that the top line revenues are insufficient to support the park. And it's an EU business so you can't fix it by replacing the full time CM's with College Program kids.

 

[ford91exploder]

I understand the business thinking behind Disney's attempt to take over EuroDisney but for some reason I am reminded of the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and the United States' invasion in 2001 ...

Don't forget the British in the 1890's... But the unifying theme here is they ALL LOST THEIR SHIRTS.

 

[SorcererMC]

Yet all caused by insufficient TOP LINE revenue to support the park, DLP could owe money instead to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and it would not change the fact that the top line revenues are insufficient to support the park. And it's an EU business so you can't fix it by replacing the full time CM's with College Program kids.

Nor by layoffs. DLP was named one of the best employers in the region.....

90% of employees are on permanent contracts and 42% have ten years of experience.” — Capital

http://disneylandparis-news.com/en/disneyland-paris-named-best-employer-2017-by-capital-magazine/
​

 

[ford91exploder]

The two should (in theory) be mutually exclusive. Even from a financial standpoint Disney separates their international P&R from domestic. This is a company that is dumping buckets and buckets of money on stock buy backs, they are by no means hardup on cash. Note that's the theory at least...

In theory without the massive debt Paris will easily shift back to the black. There was a clear master plan here (perhaps even slightly malicious). The parks were run into the ground, a massive investment occurred in refurbishment wrapping up the huge first wave soon and Disney is swinging in just before the 25th with recapilization. The timing makes sense and there have always been whispers that running things into the ground was partially a concerted effort for Disney to take over.

What happens when Disney STOPS pumping the stock or even just cuts back on the buybacks, The stock drops like a rock and that's never going to be allowed to happen.

Yes Disney reports the international properties separately, But what ALWAYS happens when the unprofitable international parks need cash, Why yes Jimmy the money is TAKEN AWAY from the domestic parks you get a A+ for that so in reality its ONE bucket of cash no matter where the park is located irrespective of the accounting fiction.

 

[truecoat]

Because I'm an ignorant american...do people from England ride the train to DLP or fly then ride the train?

 

[Princess Leia]

Because I'm an ignorant american...do people from England ride the train to DLP or fly then ride the train?

I'm sure they could either take the Chunnel or fly, I suppose.

 

[truecoat]

I'm sure they could either take the Chunnel or fly, I suppose.

I was curious if one was more common. I'd take the train everywhere if I lived in Europe.

 

[ogryn]

Because I'm an ignorant american...do people from England ride the train to DLP or fly then ride the train?

Both. I guess you could also take Le Shuttle and drive too.

The Channel Tunnel only links London and the South East directly. Further north it is probably easier to fly (or go to Florida instead)

 

[ParentsOf4]

Losses due to licensing fees owed to The Walt Disney Company.
Losses due to operating fees owed to The Walt Disney Company.
Losses due to debt payments to The Walt Disney Company.

Disney has waived fees and royalties for the next two years. DLP resort revenue was up only 3.3% in the most recent quarter, despite being compared with a quarter that saw the resort closed for 4 days due to a despicable terrorist attack in Paris. Revenue almost certainly would have been down if not for that 4-day closure in November 2015.

DLP is struggling right now, with attendance and hotel occupancy down. WDW would be struggling too if it had the numbers DLP reported in 2016 (hotel occupancy at 77%, attendance down 16% since its peak in 2012).

Hopefully, DLP has hit bottom and, with significant investment from Disney, will start to rebound.

 

[Princess Leia]

Disney has waived fees and royalties for the next two years. DLP resort revenue was up only 3.3% in the most recent quarter, despite being compared with a quarter that saw the resort closed for 4 days due to a despicable terrorist attack in Paris. Revenue almost certainly had been down if not for that 4-day closure in November 2015.

DLP is struggling right now, with attendance and hotel occupancy down. WDW would be struggling too if it had the numbers DLP reported in 2016 (hotel occupancy at 77%, attendance down 16% since its peak in 2012).

Hopefully, DLP has hit bottom and, with significant investment from Disney, will start to rebound.

What was attendance like in Orlando post-Pulse shooting?

 

[ParentsOf4]

What was attendance like in Orlando post-Pulse shooting?

A better comparison is post 9/11.

In 2002, Disney's domestic hotel occupancy was at 76%, WDW attendance was down 13% from its high. As EuroDisney President Catherine Powell stated in their most recent press release:

After a difficult year, the Paris tourism environment remains challenging, with the year-long state of emergency still in place.​

It's been a tough year for tourism. Historically, DLP is probably hitting bottom right now but it could be a long climb back up. It took 5 years and a lot of discounts before WDW recovered from 9/11.

 

[Princess Leia]

A better comparison is post 9/11.

In 2002, Disney's domestic hotel occupancy was at 76%, WDW attendance was down 13% from its high. As EuroDisney President Catherine Powell stated in their most recent press release:

After a difficult year, the Paris tourism environment remains challenging, with the year-long state of emergency still in place.​

It's been a tough year for tourism. Historically, DLP is probably hitting bottom right now but it could be a long climb up. It took 5 years and a lot of discounts before WDW recovered from 9/11.

I think that's the reason my family went in 2002. The discounts were hard to beat at the time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney has waived fees and royalties for the next two years. DLP resort revenue was up only 3.3% in the most recent quarter, despite being compared with a quarter that saw the resort closed for 4 days due to a despicable terrorist attack in Paris. Revenue almost certainly had been down if not for that 4-day closure in November 2015.

DLP is struggling right now, with attendance and hotel occupancy down. WDW would be struggling too if it had the numbers DLP reported in 2016 (hotel occupancy at 77%, attendance down 16% since its peak in 2012).

Hopefully, DLP has hit bottom and, with significant investment from Disney, will start to rebound.

A better comparison is post 9/11.

In 2002, Disney's domestic hotel occupancy was at 76%, WDW attendance was down 13% from its high. As EuroDisney President Catherine Powell stated in their most recent press release:

After a difficult year, the Paris tourism environment remains challenging, with the year-long state of emergency still in place.​

It's been a tough year for tourism. Historically, DLP is probably hitting bottom right now but it could be a long climb back up. It took 5 years and a lot of discounts before WDW recovered from 9/11.

Recent events are not the cause of decades old problems.

 

[Bolna]

Disney has waived fees and royalties for the next two years. DLP resort revenue was up only 3.3% in the most recent quarter, despite being compared with a quarter that saw the resort closed for 4 days due to a despicable terrorist attack in Paris. Revenue almost certainly had been down if not for that 4-day closure in November 2015.

DLP is struggling right now, with attendance and hotel occupancy down. WDW would be struggling too if it had the numbers DLP reported in 2016 (hotel occupancy at 77%, attendance down 16% since its peak in 2012).

Hopefully, DLP has hit bottom and, with significant investment from Disney, will start to rebound.

During the quarter a lot of attractions were closed with a massive refurbishment program going on. Lots of people stayed away knowing that with the upcoming 25th anniversary there will be more reason to come. Q3 will be the interesting one to see what the situation really is. Of course if all goes by plan, by the time Q3 would be reported TWDC might already be the sole owner of Euro Disney SCA.

 

[seascape]

Now that The Walt Disney company will own it all, the time has come for the first international DVC.

 

[flynnibus]

On the contrary, he could be seeking leverage, and he's not really alleging something that isn't true nor outright attacking Disney quality (he's contrasting it).....so his speech would likely be protected and upheld in court, if he were fired (or the subject of other disciplinary measures). Hypothetically - if Disney fired him and he sought legal recourse, Disney would have to demonstrate that the Yeti is fully functional.

I suggest you read closer... most of that is about labor relations. And note the comment "Comments directed solely toward product quality, without reference toward working conditions, are less likely to be considered protected"

 

[Daveeeeed]

Recent events are not the cause of decades old problems.

He was talking about the Paris terror attacks that apparently no one remembers.