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A Spirited Valentine ...

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Misleading≠Fabricated

Since this is our annual conversation, here's how these figures can be misleading.
  1. "First Click"- park attendance is based on the first park a guests visits in a day. If you visit DHS, finish up before lunch and leave for Epcot, DHS gets your click added to their tally. TDO and Burbank's concerns about DHS stem primarily from guest spending and time spent in the park. That's why capacity hasn't been the concern it should be with the expansion, which is more of a replacement project.
  2. "Hard Ticket" Events- Admissions for Mickey's Halloween and Christmas parties at the MK are counted as first clicks. Doesn't matter if you've been at the MK all day, a MNSHP or MVMCP is a new admission. Taking this into consideration, the Magic Kingdom is not the world's most popular theme park of 2016, Disneyland is because holiday events are included with admission, as do all the other castle parks.

Mickey's Halloween Party at DLR is an extra-pay, after hours event.
 

DDLand

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be too concerned... Yet. The lady they were talking to is a "Disney World Specialist" a.k.a. mommy brand ambassador. You can find it right on her LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/holtlauren

So by no means was she on message, and she probably knows as much as one of us. The author also didn't do their due diligence by not mentioning Chapek's comments.

I'm getting to the point where I don't think I'm a Disney Fan. Or at least a 21st century one.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be too concerned... Yet. The lady they were talking to is a "Disney World Specialist" a.k.a. mommy brand ambassador. You can find it right on her LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/holtlauren

So by no means was she on message, and she probably knows as much as one of us. The author also didn't do their due diligence by not mentioning Chapek's comments.

I'm getting to the point where I don't think I'm a Disney Fan. Or at least a 21st century one.
There is a lot of me that never left the last Century or at least the year 2000. Everything from 2001 on has been a disaster in my view.
 

HauntedPirate

Sheltered-at-home Park nostalgist
Premium Member
Yet I have to look at her name every time I walk down Main Street USA in the Magic Kingdom. I've said it before, but I still can't fathom the fact that they gave that woman a window.

As I've said before, the only window Meg should be near is the one she's cleaning.

Those attendance figures, particularly for DHS, are begging for a Baghdad Bob appearance... but I'll hold off. For now. ;) But you can bet that if/when attendance rises, DIS will be crowing about it during a shareholder meeting (while they raise ticket prices to mind-boggling levels).
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
OK, it's that day ... not quite as big a deal as when the Oscars, Emmys or Tonys are given out. But everyone is fixated on numbers and winners and losers.

I'll keep it short and sweet and leave it yourselves to pick the winners and losers. Most of the numbers are close. But some just make no sense and it's the same deal annually.

I can finally concede that maybe the MK was the most-visited park because it always is so crazy busy, quality be damned. But DCA's numbers are simply way too low year after year. And EPCOT and DHS's are too high. ... And Ocean Park outdraws HKDL (not by very much, but enough) and the SAR has pressured OP to lower its numbers (this I know for a fact, btw, friends and others).

I have no idea why the numbers are always a little screwy for some (for others they are 100% accurate), but they are. The one thing they show, though, is the theme park business is a very good one to be in. Despite what Wall Street often says.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
In my post on DLP entertainment, I neglected to mention one star that shines brightest. It's because the show was introduced a year ago (after my last visit in January) to the WDSP. I'm talking about Mickey and the Magician. One of the finest Disney stage shows at any park. It replaced the entertaining, but tired, black-light Animagique show.

Mickey and the Magician would have people going nuts if they had something like this in the swamps. Half English, half French, it tells the tale of Mickey longing to be a great magician, only to find out that the MAGIC lives inside all of ...well, you've heard this tale before. The staging, effects (there are lasers), music all combine into a show that simply makes you smile. Segments are based on Lion King, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast and ... of course ... Frozen. But this group all works. It is staged like people were actually serious about putting out top notch entertainment and they did it. Like many things at parks not in the swamps, it is something that would make WDW fans drool with envy. I had only intended to see it once. I saw it twice and really tried to fit in a third showing. It was/is that good.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Misleading≠Fabricated

Since this is our annual conversation, here's how these figures can be misleading.
  1. "First Click"- park attendance is based on the first park a guests visits in a day. If you visit DHS, finish up before lunch and leave for Epcot, DHS gets your click added to their tally. TDO and Burbank's concerns about DHS stem primarily from guest spending and time spent in the park. That's why capacity hasn't been the concern it should be with the expansion, which is more of a replacement project.
  2. "Hard Ticket" Events- Admissions for Mickey's Halloween and Christmas parties at the MK and the new Halloween party at DL are counted as first clicks. Doesn't matter if you've been at the MK all day, a MNSHP or MVMCP is a new admission. Taking this into consideration, the Magic Kingdom and Disneyland's attendance figures are lower.
EDIT: Added mention of DL's new hard ticket event in 2016

I'm sure this is an old argument, but I don't see the issue with hard ticket events counting. Seems fair. Is Uni counting HHN?
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
In my post on DLP entertainment, I neglected to mention one star that shines brightest. It's because the show was introduced a year ago (after my last visit in January) to the WDSP. I'm talking about Mickey and the Magician. One of the finest Disney stage shows at any park. It replaced the entertaining, but tired, black-light Animagique show.

Mickey and the Magician would have people going nuts if they had something like this in the swamps. Half English, half French, it tells the tale of Mickey longing to be a great magician, only to find out that the MAGIC lives inside all of ...well, you've heard this tale before. The staging, effects (there are lasers), music all combine into a show that simply makes you smile. Segments are based on Lion King, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast and ... of course ... Frozen. But this group all works. It is staged like people were actually serious about putting out top notch entertainment and they did it. Like many things at parks not in the swamps, it is something that would make WDW fans drool with envy. I had only intended to see it once. I saw it twice and really tried to fit in a third showing. It was/is that good.
They even did a special ending for Mickey's birthday last year.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
In my post on DLP entertainment, I neglected to mention one star that shines brightest. It's because the show was introduced a year ago (after my last visit in January) to the WDSP. I'm talking about Mickey and the Magician. One of the finest Disney stage shows at any park. It replaced the entertaining, but tired, black-light Animagique show.

Mickey and the Magician would have people going nuts if they had something like this in the swamps. Half English, half French, it tells the tale of Mickey longing to be a great magician, only to find out that the MAGIC lives inside all of ...well, you've heard this tale before. The staging, effects (there are lasers), music all combine into a show that simply makes you smile. Segments are based on Lion King, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast and ... of course ... Frozen. But this group all works. It is staged like people were actually serious about putting out top notch entertainment and they did it. Like many things at parks not in the swamps, it is something that would make WDW fans drool with envy. I had only intended to see it once. I saw it twice and really tried to fit in a third showing. It was/is that good.

Well, if MK had a theater for a show ... or if DHS could update or replace their 30 year old ones maybe the swamps could get something like that. Ah, who am I kidding ...
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
... Disney's not actually thinking about putting Star Wars in Shanghai, are they? All they need to do is look at the Chinese box office receipts of TFA and Rogue One to know that is a very bad idea.

Disney is all about Star Wars and Marvel these days. That should be obvious. But while the latter is quite popular in China, they largely don't care about SW. I know SW are not in any current long range expansion plans for either SDL or HKDL (hell, the Star Tours expansion pad has Iron Man sitting on it now). They still are pushing it ... but won't pull the trigger on pricey attractions.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
I liked it too ... I may have even liked it more than GotG 2, which I also liked. ... I know it's cool to bash Pirates films and Depp in general, but the movie was good.

I know you aren't the biggest fan of superhero movies, and it's about personal taste of course, but I'd personally rate GOTG2 above Pirates 5 but Pirates 5 was indeed a good movie.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I like a few aspects of their Tomorrowland. Obviously I haven't seen it in person but it seems lacking in a lot of areas. I'm also not a fan of the Tron building at all. It looks better at night but meh ...

There was some amazing design work done in SDL. But I see none of it in Tomorrowland. It looks bland and soulless. The fact Tron looks kind of kewl and people enjoy the new take on Buzz doesn't swing anything in its favour. Pirates Cove and Adventure Isle are clearly where the best work was done.
 

PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
Breaking: Bob Iger resigned from Trump's economic advisory board over him pulling out of the Paris accords. Kudos to the Weatherman for showing some spine and some decency. He's still scum, but a little less so today!
I am glad Iger's spine transplant was successful! Maybe he will have the spine to finally retire?!?
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
There was some amazing design work done in SDL. But I see none of it in Tomorrowland. It looks bland and soulless. The fact Tron looks kind of kewl and people enjoy the new take on Buzz doesn't swing anything in its favour. Pirates Cove and Adventure Isle are clearly where the best work was done.

That's exactly how I described SDL's TL in person. I really found that to be the case with most of SDL. Pretty to look at but all style little substance. Camp Discovery is the only section I really felt had a pulse to it.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
Let's talk entertainment for the 25th Anniversary at DLP.

A mixed bag to be sure.

Let's start with the daytime stuff and the sorta/kinda/mostly new Stars on Parade. Like most of the 25th, it feels quite cobbled together. Like the brief was "We need a new parade for the 25th, what can you do for $30,421.87?" No, it isn't bad. The music is catchy. The performers are into it. The floats are big and vibrant but ... again, what exactly is the theme ... the story ... the thing that ties it into a cohesive product? Missing in action.

Part of it might be that two great floats (Lion King and Peter Pan) came from TDL's wonderful Jubilation parade, so they are only new to this park, to this audience. Part might be that the styles are so different. The opening one with Mickey and Company is sorta steampunkish and later we have the fire-breathing dragon from MK's FoF parade. They go together. But the others ... especially the plastic Toy Story float or the Frozen finale with a scary looking Olaf attempting to straddle Sven have nothing in common with them or with the old Tokyo floats. Some people might say I'm overthinking it. But I've seen countless Disney parades across the globe over the decades and I know what works. This one gets by on lovely floats and a peppy soundtrack, but not on any sense of being.

There's also a stage show at the castle (nice to see this venue finally used) called "Mickey Celebrates Disneyland's Anniversary" that harkens back to the old shows that used to play at the MK and even recall TDL's seemingly never-ending One Man's Dream II show. The premise is simple, the Big Cheese is celebrating DLP's 25th by taking you on a musical review of the lands largely based on costumes and changing hats on stage. The show is nice, but short. Again, you get the feeling they wanted to do a 24-minute show and were told "Yeah, do it in 12 instead." So, the show feels short and rushed. And having Buzz Lightyear, the Mad Hatter and Duffy on stage, but no Minnie or Ducks just seemed so wrong. But Goofy's brat makes an appearance and it would seem he is quite popular with people who were kids roughly between 1984 and 2000 for some reason. And the show actually incorporates the fountains added for Illuminations (no Reflections of Earth), which is a plus.

There also is a Princess Waltz on the same stage that loosely is tied into the 25th, but we ignored that. It seemed like very small scale in scope and audience.

Beyond lots of blue and white and silver decor, that's largely it for 25th entertainment (like 25th gift bags in shops, it just isn't all that much) ... maybe Disney Blogger to the Stars, @WDWFigment will drop in with his thoughts as one of the only bloggers I have respect for.

Am I leaving anything out? Lemme think ... oh yeah, there's that new castle projection, pyro and fountain show, Illuminations: Not Reflections of Earth. I saw the show three times just for all of you ... or maybe I just liked being in DLP so late (I've been there at the same time of year before and had the parks close at 6, 7 and 8 p.m. ... when darkness doesn't fully come until after 10).

I will describe it as I described it to my beloved Angie. "That was one jumbled mess, but what an impressive mess it was.*

Now, seven years after the start of World of Color and The MAGIC, The Memories and YOU!, we have had what seems like an endless flow of these type of shows. Some beloved, some not so much. Disney Dreams, the DLP predecessor was much loved by regulars and with good reason. It actually told a story. Used Peter Pan as the major hook (pun intended) and had properties represented that are not the same overused dozen.

I loved Dreams.

I didn't love Illuminations. But I was wowed by it.

Again, it is a cobbled together show. I'd have to do a scene by scene comparison, but I believe a good 85-90% is simply lifted from SDL's opening show, Ignite the Dream. That show was crafted to showcase Disney's top current IP, and that used in the park, to an audience that may or may not have been familiar with it. DLP was looking for a celebration show of its 25th Anniversary. It didn't get that. It got an impressive mess.

The beginning and especially the Lion King scenes are simply spectacular. But the more the show goes on, the more it drifts. The last four sections are based on the Pirates film series, Frozen (including two songs, one of course being Let It Go!), the live action Beauty and the Beast and Star Wars. The projections are the best I've seen (no, I have not seen the new show in the swamps yet). The use of not only fountains, but lasers and color-changing LEDs in the trees (not chopped down) in the Hub make each scene jump as a wow. But it's sorta like the typical Cirque show. You get tired of applauding for every act, while no real story is going on. If you want to see Disney film scenes, almost entirely of the overused (like Little Mermaid) variety on an amazing tapestry with no ties between scenes, then this is the show for you. It is a technical tour de force, but has as much emotional heart as Bob Iger standing at a teleprompter while scenes from his favourite IP blast on screens behind him. Because of this, I'm not making Ignite the Dream such a priority in Shanghai, although I want to see how the locals react.

That's really the tale of 25th entertainment. They added things like something called a First Order March to WDSP that I am reasonably sure happens in the swamps too. There are a few extra and new meet-greet-and-gropes. Captain Jack over where Cinemagique was. Darth Vader in the old Star Tours merchandise location (always listed as a 10-minute wait). ... But the whole thing felt very cobbled together, very much of the we have to do something variety. And, overall, it is quality. Absolutely. It just isn't what one would expect or hope for on a significant anniversary.

Anyway, that is that ... next time, I'll discuss merchandise ... and then operations, which will include food and beverage.

Some quick thoughts (most of which are just snippets from my post on this I sent you earlier):

The new parade is a fine upgrade over their 20th Anniversary parade, but given the parades that have debuted elsewhere in the intervening years (including Festival of Fantasy), it's a disappointment.

Actually enjoyed both of the stage shows--for what they are, which is a minor diversion. Nothing grand or lavish about them, but it's nice to see that stage in use again.

Crowd control and operations were nightmares during our visit (Easter) and that really, really rubbed me the wrong way.

I disliked Disney Illuminations, despite loving Disney Dreams. The show really loses me in the second half, which makes no efforts to connect its PotC, live BatB, Star Wars, and Frozen segments. Yes, it's similar to Ignite the Dream, but much choppier and blatant in being a glorified series of movie trailers.

It's the kind of thing the casual guest will love because it features all of their favorite (recent) movies, but long-time fans will dislike. (After seeing this, I actually feared the worst for Happily Ever After. Thankfully, it does not have these same problems.)

I thought the decorations were hideous. Reminded me of a bunch of lawn ornaments.

Despite all of that--and that's a lot of negatives--it was absolutely fabulous to see Disneyland Paris looking so good. A lot of effort was put into the refurbishments, and even though some attractions are still up and down quite a bit, the park is looking better than I've ever seen it. That was our main motivation for going, and while I was hoping for a better 25th Anniversary celebration, I was not disappointed by how the park looked.

I just hope DLP can build on this momentum I'm not exactly optimistic: if crowd control and operations are any indication...park management is inept.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I don't trust ANY major media corporation except perhaps the BBC, FT and IBD these days,

I do think the media corporations need to be called out ANY time they manipulate a photograph like making a black person darker so they look 'more threatening', Heck Tiger Woods mugshot when he was busted for DWI this weekend was altered when it was printed . http://nypost.com/2017/05/30/why-espn-used-photoshopped-tiger-woods-mug-shot/ When you are pulling that kind of stunt it's no longer news it's propaganda ot the worst order and frankly Orwellian and just to make it even more of a indictment of Disney's propaganda machine it was ESPN who photoshopped Tiger's mugshot. That tells us that Disney thinks at the highest level that editing photos to fit the narrative of the day is a approved practice so how as consumers of news can we trust Disney to report anything accurately.

As to my reasoning when you alter a photographic record of a REAL event the lines between reality and narrative fantasy become increasingly blurred.

Back in the days of film photojournalists used to trim the negative carrier in the enlarger so it showed the perforations in the 35mm film they did this to show that the image was 'unaltered' and therefore trustworthy.

We are getting to 'Wag The Dog' or 'Tomorrow Never Dies' levels of news manipulation here in the US. We are at the point of the old Soviet joke "There is no news in Pravda and no truth in Izvestia"

Sorry man, but you have gone off of the proverbial deep end on this one LOL.

I don't even think you know what you are ranting about at this point. It also seems as if you have been infected with this Russia-phobia that is spreading - I think you may need to sit down for awhile and rest.

Have you even looked at the pictures? If you did, you would know that this is insanity. They didn't "remove" or "photoshop out" anyone, much less anything to earn this rant like they somehow have done something that will be the end of western civilization.
 

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