A Question About Whats In The Lake??

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by dmspilot00
Sink hole did not kill Horizons. G.E. did. The new sponsors wanted to design their own attraction rather than assuming someone else's.

To be more persice The sinkhole killed the building ,it is conjecture that GE is the real reason the attraction closed. also from what I heard the mecanics of the space building were not compatable with the horizions structure and the sinkhole just was the sinch that facilitated the demolishion.

 

[CrashNet]

Originally posted by RobFL
Water exerts force outward to its container. That stabilizes the pressure from the other side of the walls.

Jeeze..

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean its wrong.

-Rob

Yes, it does exert a force outward to its container, as long as the water pressure is higher than the pressure of the force around it. So for the 20k pool, this would not be possible. Standing water cannot have the force needed to hold up the tunnel walls. In that case, the water only has mass and weight, nothing more. This is the reason why the water mktiggerman talked about leaked out below the attraction.

As for holding up buildings, that really isn't a very sound idea. Pumping water constantly into a sink hole won't hold up a building above it. If anything puming water into the sink hole would cause erosion and an even larger sink hole. Disney World cannot legally keep a building open to the public if this is a known problem. The building would fail one of the most important and longest existing building codes, a solid foundation. Leaving a building open like that is a huge risk. If it collapsed while open, lawsuits that could put the entire company out of business would be inevitable.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by kaos
There are no tunnels in Disneyland. DCA was not designed to have them either. The only theme park with a utilidor system is the Magic Kingdom. /B]

I think the Utilidors may have been one of thoes "Happy accidents" Since they found that the water table was to close to the surface they raised Mk 14 feet with the soil from Seven Seas lagoon to get a good foundation for the park and built the Utilidors on top of the original grade. this made it easier to have them then if they had to dig a pit for the Utilidors to built under MK.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by Drebel
What about spaceship earth?

If a sinkhole happened to appear underneath spaceship earth would they have to bring the whole thing down?

I understand what you are saying about the sinkholes but epcot being constructed in the late 70s early 80s I am now worried about the other buildings.

-Drebel

Since SE has such a massive weight to it the foundations were designed where they pounded piling supports down to stable earth or bedrock if feasable, much like the do to build bridge pier foundations for highways in Floridia. I would doubt that SE would become unstable with this engineering unlike Horizions where the building posts mostly supported the the roof system.

 

[kaos]

Were the tunnels at Disnyland added after the park opened? I never knew that any tunnels existed there.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by McArcDes
Just to put my two cents in. While I was working for Imagineering in '98 they were working on the early designs for Mission Space and all of them included rehabing the Horizons building. I don't give any creedance to the sink hole theory.

McArcdes. I remember hearing that there was a CM event happening in the Horizions building and the engineers deemed the building unsafe and evacuated the building and canceled that event. I was wondering if any CMs here that can confirm this rumor?

 

[disneyisbest]

I'm not sure about any of it but my theory is that the whole sink hole thing was used as an excuse for tearing down Horizons because they knew it was a popular attraction and they wanted to replace it. I don't understand why it would just be Horizons that had them there are other buildings at Disney that are just as old or older. So why would Horizons be the one to have a sink hole? I know the people who designed the building weren't stupid.

 

[RobFL]

*sigh*

Do i have to bring you a vile of the water from under UoE?

Some people.. jeeze..

-Rob

 

[mkt]

Rob...

Give up. Some people just refuse to accept the truth. If you give up now, you'll get more sleep

 

[disneyisbest]

Is that the only Pavillion this is happening to then Rob? And why is it only certain ones? Like I just mentioned I don't think the people who designed the buildings were stupid. What is it about these particular buildings that are causing them to fall apart?

 

[McArcDes]

**sigh*

Do i have to bring you a vile of the water from under UoE?

Rob.....Yes you will have to bring me a vile of water from under UoE, signed and stamped calculations from a structural engineer and then lead me by the hand down below the building and show me a pump that is pumping water INTO the building.

I am an architect with 23 years in the construction business. I know that the only reason there would be water in a building us because it LEAKS in. Architects, Engineers and Contractors are forever seeking ways to keep water out of a building. Water is a buildings worst enemy. It will ruin a building faster than anything else.

Just like cac2889 said water has mass and weight. But what it lacks and is most important for structural integrity is density. Push against water and it moves. push against concrete and it does not. That is because concrete is very dense and water is not.

 

[disneyisbest]

So McArdes would you agree it is an excuse to tear down an old favorite to replace it with a new idea? That is my opinion anyway.

 

[McArcDes]

McArcdes. I remember hearing that there was a CM event happening in the Horizions building and the engineers deemed the building unsafe and evacuated the building and canceled that event. I was wondering if any CMs here that can confirm this rumor?

I can neigher confirm or deny this rumor. When I was at Imagineering the office I worked in was right behind Horizons. The ride was open when I was there but they were working on Space. I heard some talk about the ride and even saw some of the early design work and it all kept a modified Horizons building.
There were some Imagineers that I worked with that were not in favor of this adaption of the existing building.

We tend to get very attached to rides and hate to see them go but the reality of it is that to Disney this is all about business and how to attract more people into the parks. They have a lot of very stiff compitition in parks like IOA and Universal Studios. The need to keep things as interesting and exciting as possible to entice people into the parks.

When ever I had riden Horizons in the few years before it closed it was always a walk on ride and was showing its age. My opinion is that Disney decided to tear down the building and start fresh. Business decision nothing more. It is a fact that many times it is cheaper to build new than to extensively remodle an existing building.

Sometimes we just want exciting excuses to somehow justify why Disney did away with our most cherished attractions. I am still searciing for one to explain Test Track.

 

[TiggersPooh]

wow getting back to the topic!! Since you say you cannot take out the water from the old 20,000 do they just expect it to sit there and get any better? I think they should just deal with it now take it out and do it before it gets any worse!

 

[McArcDes]

So McArdes would you agree it is an excuse to tear down an old favorite to replace it with a new idea? That is my opinion anyway.

I dont really think Disney needs and excuse. I think the sink hole theory is internet rumor nothing more. And your are completly right when you say the people who design these buildings are not stupid. Kudos to you for giving credit where credit is due.

 

[disneyisbest]

I really don't know what I would do with that area. And I don't think disney does either. That's why it is still there. I think once the figure out what they want to put there, then we will see whatever ever changes are necessary for their plans.

 

[McArcDes]

A lagoon full of water does look a lot better than a hole in the ground or a construction wall. As for leaks into the tunnels....It is very had to stop them when they start unless you drain the entire lagoon and fix the hole...As for what they should put there a very highly themed extention fo Fantasy Land would be nice. And not a bunch of meet and greets. I mean real buildings containing shops, restaurants and attractions.

 

[disneyisbest]

Yes that area does take up a good bit of space just like the race cars in tomorrowland. I could see where they could make much more effecient use of those areas.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by McArcDes


I can neigher confirm or deny this rumor. When I was at Imagineering the office I worked in was right behind Horizons. The ride was open when I was there but they were working on Space. I heard some talk about the ride and even saw some of the early design work and it all kept a modified Horizons building.
There were some Imagineers that I worked with that were not in favor of this adaption of the existing building.

We tend to get very attached to rides and hate to see them go but the reality of it is that to Disney this is all about business and how to attract more people into the parks. They have a lot of very stiff compitition in parks like IOA and Universal Studios. The need to keep things as interesting and exciting as possible to entice people into the parks.

When ever I had riden Horizons in the few years before it closed it was always a walk on ride and was showing its age. My opinion is that Disney decided to tear down the building and start fresh. Business decision nothing more. It is a fact that many times it is cheaper to build new than to extensively remodle an existing building.

Sometimes we just want exciting excuses to somehow justify why Disney did away with our most cherished attractions. I am still searciing for one to explain Test Track.

Going back to the sinkhole, sometime back I posted a pic I found that showed the sinkhole after they finished clearing the site and there was steel "I" beam bracing in a large hole in the NE corner where thw building was. I don't think they would have had that there if there wasnt a reason for it.


heres a link to the pic look at the bottom of the page

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11583&perpage=15&pagenumber=5

 

[disneyisbest]

Dude, I don't think that is a sink hole. It just looks like construction to me. I do believe the Horizons pavillion did go below ground level so I think that is what you have a pic of, but I am not really sure.