A little crystal ball gazing. What do you think needs to happen?

[eliza61nyc]

This is totally speculative

Ever so often we read some thing along the lines of "if Disney doesn't be careful they're going to rue the day". I really thought the pandemic and being shut down for months would make management be a little more guest friendly but the parks came back strong.

So do you think they will really be a time when Disney is only for the rich (and no obviously it's not now) or that attendance will drop significantly enough where they pay attention to the guest.

Could park attendance dip to the point where they sell off the parks?

 

[Smiley/OCD]

This is totally speculative

Ever so often we read some thing along the lines of "if Disney doesn't be careful they're going to rue the day". I really thought the pandemic and being shut down for months would make management be a little more guest friendly but the parks came back strong.

So do you think they will really be a time when Disney is only for the rich (and no obviously it's not now) or that attendance will drop significantly enough where they pay attention to the guest.

Could park attendance dip to the point where they sell off the parks?

To answer your questions, in a perfect world, with a corporation that ACTUALLY put their customers first, you would think they would have gone out of their way to move guest satisfaction and customer service first and foremost, but they didn't. We, (as Disney super fans), have to remember that while we'd LIKE to think we, as repeat and regular guests, would matter to corporate, but we don't really matter. The average Disney guest is a regular patron of Six Flags in their home state, so compared to SF, Disney is absolutely awesome. Most guests have probably made 3-5 visits so they really don't see the constant nickel & dime changes that we do.

As far as Disney only moving to the point that only the rich could afford it, as long as banks keep issuing credit cards to people who shouldn't have them, that will never happen. Now IF the economy keeps circling the drain and fuel prices don't start coming down and the situation in Europe keeps getting worse, That might change sooner rather than later.

Again, as long as Mr. Chapek is in charge, I think things will get worse in the parks before they get better. His philosophy seems to be that park guests are like sheep...they'll follow along no matter how many former perks are removed, how much tickets, food, hotels, etc. go up...Will things get better? Not until someone who actually cares about and has worked in the parks comes along and is wiling to stick their necks out to the board and stockholders.

My favorite line that Judge Judy used..."Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining"...Chapek would like us to think that like Kevin Bacon in "Animal House" said, "All is well", we as know, things "just ain't the same"... Unfortunately, I think WE'RE the ones who will have to either suck it up and accept the new normal, or stop going. Speaking ONLY for my wife and myself, the world sucks right now, we STILL enjoy spending the week at the WDW and forgetting about the outside world. I'm a NY Jets fan...I'm used to being a doormat! lol.

 

[SteveAZee]

I would think two things would need to happen. First there needs to be a competitive threat to Disney parks, most likely Universal in Florida. Clearly a pandemic and possibly even a prolonged recession wouldn't shake things up too much, but perhaps a clear and present danger to the bottom line, long term, from Universal would set the stage. Second is a change in upper management that gets back to a combination of visionary changes and the financial benefits of being the industry leader.

Without those two things, this cow will just keep getting milked. Moo.

 

[mysto]

If Disney were catering to the truly rich, if their guests were rich, they'd have to be pampering them. This doesn't seem to be what's happening for the most part, most on the board seem to be complaining that they do not feel valued.

I think the world was different when the parks were created, in the 60s. It seems like there are fewer options per capita for families to go have fun now. Per capita is important, google it. Any activity that involves fun seems to sell out immediately and still be crowded when you get there. Skiing, river running, camping, eating out someplace nice, even going to clubs or concerts, hard to get in and packed when you do.

Also as I've mentioned before corporations do not seem to fail or even struggle since 2008. It's not just Disney. During covid everything shut down, and only small businesses closed.

I do not believe Disney's comeuppance is coming up. Perhaps ours has.

 

[ppete1975]

no. Sadly I think before they are financially in a bind enough to sell or change their mindset that the parks will already be gone.
Hurricane, tornado, rising sea levels... (the first two they would prob rebuild, sea levels no).. massive earthquake in california.. could destroy disneyland. OR a plague that closes everything to close for multiple years, (and no i do not think if covid reoccurred things would close again, due to the effects). Think covid times 100..

 

[JIMINYCR]

NO... Disney isnt going to turn into a place only "The Rich" can visit. Thats a line we seem to be hearing from those who cant understand that pricing of any service will change over time. Disney has made it more challenging to save for a trip and guests must choose more wisely about what they can afford or what type of extras can be included. But anyone wanting to go more expensive can save for that type of items. Will it take more sacrificing and take longer to save ? Sure. But it can be done. People always want to spend as little as they can and compare prices to their last trip, no matter how long ago it was.
Guest satisfaction will come back when it becomes a priority to management and company heads. Right now its fairly being ignored because it isnt a priority. Business is being perceived as chugging along fine and no need to alter the path its following now. Maybe a change will come in time with personnel changes. When that happens, we cant tell. Most times change comes only when it becomes a situation of being forced by circumstances. And Disney isnt being forced into it.
Query # 2. I cant see attendance ever dipping so low that Disney will be forced to sell or close.... unless theres a major downturn/ crash in the economy or national crisis that suspends travel. Disney outlasted Covid so they can be assured there is a time period they can hold out for when something unexpected happens. The circumstances that fell into place years ago prior to Eisner, when Disney was at risk of being taken over arent there now.

 

[danlb_2000]

NO... Disney isnt going to turn into a place only "The Rich" can visit. Thats a line we seem to be hearing from those who cant understand that pricing of any service will change over time. Disney has made it more challenging to save for a trip and guests must choose more wisely about what they can afford or what type of extras can be included. But anyone wanting to go more expensive can save for that type of items. Will it take more sacrificing and take longer to save ? Sure. But it can be done. People always want to spend as little as they can and compare prices to their last trip, no matter how long ago it was.
Guest satisfaction will come back when it becomes a priority to management and company heads. Right now its fairly being ignored because it isnt a priority. Business is being perceived as chugging along fine and no need to alter the path its following now. Maybe a change will come in time with personnel changes. When that happens, we cant tell. Most times change comes only when it becomes a situation of being forced by circumstances. And Disney isnt being forced into it.
Query # 2. I cant see attendance ever dipping so low that Disney will be forced to sell or close.... unless theres a major downturn/ crash in the economy or national crisis that suspends travel. Disney outlasted Covid so they can be assured there is a time period they can hold out for when something unexpected happens. The circumstances that fell into place years ago prior to Eisner, when Disney was at risk of being taken over arent there now.

Turning into a place only "The Rich" can visit may be an exaggeration, but it's likely they have priced out some fraction of their previous guests.

 

[JIMINYCR]

Turning into a place only "The Rich" can visit may be an exaggeration, but it's likely hey have priced out some fraction of their previous guests.

Yes, but the question the OP posted wasnt Has Disney out priced a faction of guests. And I did say Disney has made it more challenging for guests to save for a trip.

 

[ppete1975]

Turning into a place only "The Rich" can visit may be an exaggeration, but it's likely hey have priced out some fraction of their previous guests.

i believe it will become (or already has) become an every 3-5 years trip instead of every year or more than once a year that some are used to.

 

[eliza61nyc]

i believe it will become (or already has) become an every 3-5 years trip instead of every year or more than once a year that some are used to.

I really think that's is more about options than anything else. When I was a kid no one took their kids on cruises. Now?? Almost every cruise line caters to children. Caribbean?? All those resorts catering to families.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

i believe it will become (or already has) become an every 3-5 years trip instead of every year or more than once a year that some are used to.

I agree with this. I've been one of those touting that Disney will rue the day. I continue to believe that's true, only if they don't make adjustments along the way because it will take time for them to feel the pain from recent decisions. So many trips were already planned and many already paid for prior to the recent changes. Those trips are going to happen. Also, because of nickle and diming, your average Jane and John Doe visitors won't understand the true cost of their trip until they're on-site, or maybe not until they get the credit card bill and see how many times that $15 added up for skipping each line with a family of four. I think when people individually start to realize how much things have changed, or that you're not getting nearly as much for your money as you used to, attendance will dip.

Attendance will need to dip significantly though because there's so much pent up demand, and prices have been increased significantly. Let's say that the cost of a trip per person went from $1,000/person to $1,300/person. I'm not claiming that to be accurate, but just for statistical example. That's a 30% increase. Multiply that by 1,000 people and Disney just went from earning $1M per 1,000 people to $1.3M for that same number of people. Their attendance would have to dip to 769 people in that example for them to see revenue below what they were earning before the price increase ($1M). Their $1M of revenue finally decreased to $999,999. That's an overly-simplified example and doesn't take into effect that with park reservations they were able to reduce staffing cost as well meaning their margin wouldn't even suffer at that level, but I'm just making the point. A significant decrease in attendance won't even spell disaster for Disney due to the significant price increases. It's going to be a while before they suffer the consequences, and it would take for people to really feel the hurt or anger for them to not attend.

You know, now that I spell it out like that, maybe it's not that likely they will ever feel the hurt enough to change. I say that based on the sheer excitement I see by so many folks on these boards just to get back into the parks regardless of these changes. For me, it's not the price increases that keep me away, but the deterioration of the experience and as I've stated elsewhere, the incessant planning required. I'm a planner, but I don't like the way they are pinning people to their park decisions months in advance with no flexibility to change based on your own feelings/whims.

 

[Imhere]

After 9-11 and during the last great recession things were pretty bleak for Disney Parks. Planned resorts were canned, attendance was way down.

It runs in cycles. When attendance is low there are resort deals you wouldn't believe. One of the best deals I remember was in either 2009 or 2010, you could buy a 4 day package and get 7 days.

Personally, we typically go to WDW for a week every year. The price is increasing, but, not any more than our other vacation destinations. The week in a Hilton Head rental house has risen at a higher rate than Disney, with less availability. The Golf course deals were not competitive last year like they have been every other year.

Right now the post Covid demand is sky high. They are actually in a position where they have to increase prices to limit demand. Due to artificial government actions, they have had to raise wages to a level they weren't planning for.

WDW isn't going anywhere. Once the economy and this pent up demand shakes out things will revert to what we consider normal.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

After 9-11 and during the last great recession things were pretty bleak for Disney Parks. Planned resorts were canned, attendance was way down.

It runs in cycles. When attendance is low there are resort deals you wouldn't believe. One of the best deals I remember was in either 2009 or 2010, you could buy a 4 day package and get 7 days.

Personally, we typically go to WDW for a week every year. The price is increasing, but, not any more than our other vacation destinations. The week in a Hilton Head rental house has risen at a higher rate than Disney, with less availability. The Golf course deals were not competitive last year like they have been every other year.

Right now the post Covid demand is sky high. They are actually in a position where they have to increase prices to limit demand. Due to artificial government actions, they have had to raise wages to a level they weren't planning for.

WDW isn't going anywhere. Once the economy and this pent up demand shakes out things will revert to what we consider normal.

A lot of truth in what you said here. Inflation dictates a doubling of prices, generally, every 20 or so years. That's not fact across all categories, but generally if you stuff a $20 bill in your mattress and pull it out for use in 20 or so years, it will buy you only half of what it would've had you spent it immediately (or invested) rather than stuffing it in your mattress. Of course it depends on your category of purchase, but again, just generally. Considering I went to WDW for the first time in 2000 as a young adult, I'd expect prices to be roughly double right now. Actually, until recent increases I don't think they were. That's why I say for me my disappointment really is not price related. I make much more than I did 20 years ago, as one would hope. My issue is the complication of the process is about 20x more than it was 20 years ago, not doubled. Oh yeah, and the nickle and diming in the attempt of hiding the price increases. I hate deception. It's a terrible attribute for a company you spend a lot of money with.

 

[Por-Favor-Manténgase]

Recent trips for me have fallen into the "Norman Rockwell" category. You know the perfectly painted picture of Thanksgiving where everyone is happy around the table, all dressed up, all the chairs match, etc. Then Thanksgiving Day rolls around, your family is fighting, the food sucks and you swear that you'll never host this many people for Thanksgiving ever again. That's where I'm at with Disney trips. It all sounded great while planning this last trip, then we got there and I remembered why I said I never wanted to come back again every year.

 

[Imhere]

A lot of truth in what you said here. Inflation dictates a doubling of prices, generally, every 20 or so years. That's not fact across all categories, but generally if you stuff a $20 bill in your mattress and pull it out for use in 20 or so years, it will buy you only half of what it would've had you spent it immediately (or invested) rather than stuffing it in your mattress. Of course it depends on your category of purchase, but again, just generally. Considering I went to WDW for the first time in 2000 as a young adult, I'd expect prices to be roughly double right now. Actually, until recent increases I don't think they were. That's why I say for me my disappointment really is not price related. I make much more than I did 20 years ago, as one would hope. My issue is the complication of the process is about 20x more than it was 20 years ago, not doubled. Oh yeah, and the nickle and diming in the attempt of hiding the price increases. I hate deception. It's a terrible attribute for a company you spend a lot of money with.

LOL, just went to the Undercover Tourist website and checked my history.

In June 2010 I paid $286.95 for a 6 Day Park Hopper.

My 6 Day Park Hopper for November 2022? $661.95

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

LOL, just went to the Undercover Tourist website and checked my history.

In June 2010 I paid $286.95 for a 6 Day Park Hopper.

My 6 Day Park Hopper for November 2022? $661.95

Guess the posted prices I saw last year were inaccurate? OR, the price increases have been astronomical in just the last few months. Wow, that's a lot. Well, that, and $15 per LL and all the other up-charges you might incur. That's insane.