Walt Disney – A Magical Life

TheCoasterNerd

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I do wonder how the sign will work. I hope it's not a screen cycling between names, that would feel so out of place on Main Street. Maybe just The Disney Gallery or The Disneyland Story or Main Street Opera House? Leaving the show name off completely and having a screen inside with what show is currently playing could work
 

donaldtoo

Well-Known Member
Will Disney be smoking like Mark Twain does?

As long as it’s a Chesterfield, Camel or Gitanes, for historical accuracy. ;)

On a related note, on another site/forum I was a member of years ago, someone posted a thread titled “What Was Disney’s Biggest Mistake?”, as in the company.
A few posts in a dude posted “Chain smoking.”
It was a drop the mic post moment, and it got a massive amount of reactions…!!!!! :hilarious:
 
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Phroobar

Well-Known Member
If Walt did live into the 1970s and 1980s would the Walt Disney company still exist today? There would be no Eisner/Wells to fight off corporate raiders. Disney movies and theme parks were seen as for little kids only and not that profitable.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
If Walt did live into the 1970s and 1980s would the Walt Disney company still exist today? There would be no Eisner/Wells to fight off corporate raiders. Disney movies and theme parks were seen as for little kids only and not that profitable.
Too hard to tell. But for sake of argument to add to that, would Walt be too distracted with the Florida Project to actually pay attention to what was happening in the Studio? Would some of the post-Walt classics even have happened?

I think the company would have still existed, as many of the reasons for the raiders in the 80s was Disney's lack of success. But it certainly wouldn't be the same company as it was in the 50s and 60s, as change would have still happened.
 

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
If Walt did live into the 1970s and 1980s would the Walt Disney company still exist today? There would be no Eisner/Wells to fight off corporate raiders. Disney movies and theme parks were seen as for little kids only and not that profitable.

I think about this occasionally. I hate to say it, but I think he would have run the company into the ground trying to realize EPCOT, which was never feasible in the first place.

He had also grown bored and uninvolved with the studio in his late years, so it likely would have continued to languish.
 

Mr. Sullivan

Well-Known Member
I think about this occasionally. I hate to say it, but I think he would have run the company into the ground trying to realize EPCOT, which was never feasible in the first place.

He had also grown bored and uninvolved with the studio in his late years, so it likely would have continued to languish.
Yeah, I think you're very right. It's easy to create a perfect idea of Walt in one's mind (and Disney as a company bends over backwards these days to do that themselves), but the reality is that he was not perfect. He was in fact rather prone to poor decision making on his own but thankfully had people around him who knew how to guide him toward something more doable (Roy is truly the unsung hero of Disney history).

His vision of EPCOT was at best unrealistic and at worst delusional. It would've been an expensive folly of unimaginable proportions. It was a pure vanity project with absolutely zero basis in reality, and he was just stubborn enough that none of those aforementioned handlers likely would've been able to talk him out of it.

It alone maybe wouldn't have destroyed the company, but it would've hurt it deeply and I think it's failure would've cut Walt rather deeply. As you said he was already disinterested in the studio and hyper-focused on Disneyland, so it's fully possible EPCOT being a spectacular failure could've shaken his interest in that as well.

This is in part why I think a show like this is not the smartest idea. Disney as a company has created such a sanitized, over powered, unrealistic view of who Walt Disney actually was, and it's gotten so out of hand that it doesn't even really feel like they're telling his story anymore. They're telling the story of some mythical version of him that never existed. I'm not saying they need to have that animatronic talk about how wildly hypocritical he was, or wax poetic about all of his less than desirable traits as an individual, or dig into the mountain of poor ideas he had that stood just as tall as the brilliant ideas he had. But I am saying I think they need to pull back from the Walt mythologizing.

I get that Walt is the mascot of sorts, but it's getting rather ridiculous the way he's been deified.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think you're very right. It's easy to create a perfect idea of Walt in one's mind (and Disney as a company bends over backwards these days to do that themselves), but the reality is that he was not perfect. He was in fact rather prone to poor decision making on his own but thankfully had people around him who knew how to guide him toward something more doable (Roy is truly the unsung hero of Disney history).

His vision of EPCOT was at best unrealistic and at worst delusional. It would've been an expensive folly of unimaginable proportions. It was a pure vanity project with absolutely zero basis in reality, and he was just stubborn enough that none of those aforementioned handlers likely would've been able to talk him out of it.

It alone maybe wouldn't have destroyed the company, but it would've hurt it deeply and I think it's failure would've cut Walt rather deeply. As you said he was already disinterested in the studio and hyper-focused on Disneyland, so it's fully possible EPCOT being a spectacular failure could've shaken his interest in that as well.

This is in part why I think a show like this is not the smartest idea. Disney as a company has created such a sanitized, over powered, unrealistic view of who Walt Disney actually was, and it's gotten so out of hand that it doesn't even really feel like they're telling his story anymore. They're telling the story of some mythical version of him that never existed. I'm not saying they need to have that animatronic talk about how wildly hypocritical he was, or wax poetic about all of his less than desirable traits as an individual, or dig into the mountain of poor ideas he had that stood just as tall as the brilliant ideas he had. But I am saying I think they need to pull back from the Walt mythologizing.

I get that Walt is the mascot of sorts, but it's getting rather ridiculous the way he's been deified.


Saying that the brilliant man and pioneer who brought the world Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Disneyland and was going to fail so bad with Epcot and run (or almost run) the company into the ground is a really bold claim. My guess is that it doesn’t bother you that Walt’s being “deified” as much as it bothers you that a man known for his patriotism, traditional/ conservative values and love for his country is being deified. Very much like many of the people working for the company now that would like to destroy any trace of those values and themes. Otherwise I can’t see why someone who found their way onto this site would have a problem with the company celebrating the man who started it all. If you’ve watched any of those irreverent shows like Behind the Attraction or that other 6 part Imagineering series they aired a few years ago it doesn’t appear like they are deifying him at all and are trying to make Walt appear very human.
 

Mr. Sullivan

Well-Known Member
Saying that the brilliant man and pioneer who brought the world Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Disneyland and was going to fail so bad with Epcot and run (or almost run) the company into the ground is a really bold claim. My guess is that it doesn’t bother you that Walt’s being “deified” as much as it bothers you that a man known for his patriotism, traditional/ conservative values and love for his country is being deified. Very much like many of the people working for the company now that would like to destroy any trace of those values and themes. Otherwise I can’t see why someone who found their way onto this site would have a problem with the company celebrating the man who started it all. If you’ve watched any of those irreverent shows like Behind the Attraction or that other 6 part Imagineering series they aired a few years ago it doesn’t appear like they are deifying him at all and are trying to make Walt appear very human.
I don’t know where you got all of that from what I said.

I do not personally have any qualms with Disney being patriotic. All I’ve said in the past is that I understand why others may. Being able to understand someone else’s point of view on a matter does not mean that I myself share said point of view.

The reason that I don’t think all the mythologizing they do about Walt is good is because I think the framing they give to him removes what was so remarkable about him. To paint him as this unflappable portrait of constant forward thinking success strips him of his most fascinating attributes and tells only half a story. I do appreciate recent attempts to humanize him a bit more, but I don’t think we have to lie about him or clean him up to do that. He is a figure that comes with a lot of complexity and the Disney Narrative robs him of a lot of that complexity. They boil him down to Uncle Walt, not Walter Elias Disney.

As for his vision for EPCOT, I don’t know why saying it probably would’ve been a massive failure is a sticking point when that has been the popular school of thought for longer than I’ve been alive. There’s a reason it didn’t get built when he passed. There’s a reason some of his most trusted collaborators didn’t see that vision through.

You’re right that I don’t personally share a lot of Walt’s values (I can’t imagine I would share the values of most people from his era), but that doesn’t mean I don’t respect him, that I don’t want any trace of him in the parks, or that I object to any of his values being present within the parks. Nor do I think Disney shouldn’t celebrate him. But there’s a massive difference between celebrating someone and turning them into something they weren’t for the sake of corporate image. The way they sell Walt, make him almost like one of their IPs, is not the way the way to go and it has created so many false impressions of the man among the public and even fans who really ought to know better by now.

You’ve made a lot of big assumptions about my thoughts based on absolutely nothing I’ve said. Not in the post you responded to, and not anywhere else. Nowhere did I say a WORD about Walt’s beliefs, or their presence in the parks. Nowhere. Me asking for them to stop treating him like a god and start speaking about him like the mortal, fallible man he actually was (because that’s far more interesting and far more of a testament to why he was remarkable) doesn’t mean all these things you pulled from thin air.

I don’t know why you felt the need to make this a personal attack on what you perceive my beliefs to be. You’ve got no right to twist my words and tell me what you think I mean when you don’t know me or how I feel about anything. I don’t know why you question why someone like me would be here simply because I don’t care for the way the company chooses to talk about a real person. I may not be a Disney fan in the exact same way you are, but that doesn’t mean I’m not one, and it doesn’t mean you get to jump to all these conclusions simply because you disagree with me. I’ve disagreed with you in the past, but I’ve never spoken to you like that, never attacked or belittled your beliefs, and never questioned how your thoughts could bring you here.

I’m sorry I don’t fit your vision of a Disney fan, but that doesn’t mean you get to make up things about how I think and feel and use those things as “fact” in order to attack my position on something.
 

donaldtoo

Well-Known Member
Saying that the brilliant man and pioneer who brought the world Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and Disneyland and was going to fail so bad with Epcot and run (or almost run) the company into the ground is a really bold claim. My guess is that it doesn’t bother you that Walt’s being “deified” as much as it bothers you that a man known for his patriotism, traditional/ conservative values and love for his country is being deified. Very much like many of the people working for the company now that would like to destroy any trace of those values and themes. Otherwise I can’t see why someone who found their way onto this site would have a problem with the company celebrating the man who started it all. If you’ve watched any of those irreverent shows like Behind the Attraction or that other 6 part Imagineering series they aired a few years ago it doesn’t appear like they are deifying him at all and are trying to make Walt appear very human.

Also, there are several Walt Disney biographies out there that definitely don’t go anywhere near deifying him.
Neal Gabler’s “Walt Disney: The Triumph of the American Imagination” is just one that comes to mind.
Dianne Disney Miller, among many others, took issue with the book, but also didn’t try to deify Walt, either…

 

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