Full Vaccination Required Ages 5+ Starting 1/13/22

It went through the same steps any other vaccine has. What is missing is long term data on how long the vaccine remains effective. Hence why we now know the need for boosters.
That's not correct. They are still doing long term safety studies that will not be complete for another couple of years. Any other vaccine would need to have these long term safety studies completed before its rolled out. The FDA panel stated this during their discussion when debating and reviewing the data for 5-11 year old EUA. I know this because I watched the entire streamed FDA panel discussion.
 
No corporation is mandating that you do anything. They are stipulating the rules of using their service. If you want to go on a DCL cruise there are a number of rules that you and your kids must follow in order to board the ship. Being vaccinated is one of them. If you do not like ANY of the rules that they stipulate, then you are free to speak with your money (and voice if you so wish) and decline to use their services. But they are not mandating that you or your kids do anything.
Requiring a medical procedure to board a ship is a mandate. You can parse words but the end is the same. Yes, we did speak with our money.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
Requiring a medical procedure to board a ship is a mandate. You can parse words but the end is the same. Yes, we did speak with our money.


Mandate: an official order or commission to do something.

Stipulation: a condition or requirement that is specified or demanded as part of an agreement.

It is not parsing words. It is using them correctly. Language and definitions are important. Mandate has become one of the buzz words of the day, along with freedoms, and rights.

Nobody is "officially ordering you to have your kids vaccinated" THAT is a mandate

What is happening is DCL is saying "as a condition of boarding our cruise ship your agree to vaccinate your child" THAT is a stipulation.
 
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Mandate: an official order or commission to do something.

Stipulation: a condition or requirement that is specified or demanded as part of an agreement.

It is not parsing words. It is using them correctly. Language and definitions are important. Mandate has become one of the buzz words of the day, along with freedoms, and rights.

Nobody is "officially ordering you to have your kids vaccinated" THAT is a mandate

What is happening is DCL is saying "as a condition boarding our cruise ship your agree to vaccinate your child" THAT is a stipulation.
The end result is the same.
 

Mindy55

Active Member
I apprec
No corporation is mandating that you do anything. They are stipulating the rules of using their service. If you want to go on a DCL cruise there are a number of rules that you and your kids must follow in order to board the ship. Being vaccinated is one of them. If you do not like ANY of the rules that they stipulate, then you are free to speak with your money (and voice if you so wish) and decline to use their services. But they are not mandating that you or your kids do anything.
I appreciate your perspective vs mine regarding use of the word mandate / requirement. Again, for me- I just can’t and won’t support it. I’m not looking to argue, just sharing. :) .
 

Mindy55

Active Member
Actually, no, we can't agree at all. It went through the same steps, but was able to be proven effective and safe more quickly due to having tens of thousands of people to test it on. Most other vaccines have to take years to get to that many people. And yes, lots of other vaccines are mandated. Measles, polio, diphtheria, hepatitis b, and chickenpox are just a few.
Thanks for replying, I hope we can agree to disagree :). I’m sure lots of people have varying thoughts / facts etc. up and down the scale. I’m not looking to argue or change minds, 😂.
From my own experience, my kids were not required / mandated to receive any vaccine. It was my choice wether I wanted them to have them or not. I chose the basic ones and didn’t others as I did not feel they were necessary.
I don’t have a negative opinion regarding the vaccine, I don’t support being told wether or not I need one and then asked to show proof of it. It goes way too far, for me.
 

EOD K9

Well-Known Member
We have two cruises next year B2B on the Wish and Fantasy. My under ten years of age children and I will be fully vaccinated. For clarification, the only thing we need to do is have the vax cards loaded and just take the test at the port. Is that correct?
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
I think we can all agree the vaccine did not go through the same steps, as other common (but never before mandated) vaccines. Vaccines normally go through years of trials and there is loads of data available. Obviously the approach here has been very different. I’m not suggesting it’s bad or good or anything. Like I stated earlier, for me, it’s the audacity of any corporation taking the stance of mandating such things.. I just can’t support it.
Again, they went through the same tests. The follow ups are for judging how long they are effective. They used to take longer to develop because we didn't have things like genetic engineering where we can pinpoint exactly what is going on. The old days was throw whatever seems likely to see if it worked. ALL vaccines go through 3 steps and ALL of the current vaccines have gone through all 3. If you want more info, I suggest you look at some of the websites that talk about how clinical trials work. We know the vaccines work, we know they are safe, and we know that most of the people who are hospitalized (including children) are unvaccinated. And not being vaccinated put those who cannot get vaccinated at serious risk. And yes, there are many vaccines that are mandated - try enrolling your kid in public school without any vaccines. Good luck.
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
That's not correct. They are still doing long term safety studies that will not be complete for another couple of years. Any other vaccine would need to have these long term safety studies completed before its rolled out. The FDA panel stated this during their discussion when debating and reviewing the data for 5-11 year old EUA. I know this because I watched the entire streamed FDA panel discussion.
Incorrect.. no vaccine has ever had any serious side effects that showed up after six months. Long term is for judging effectiveness, not safety. And we already know the dangers of the illness are far greater than any risk from the vaccine. One of the vaccines even has full approval. While safety followup is part of the procedure under EUA (not on approved) the main focus is on effectiveness.https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
They are still doing long term safety studies that will not be complete for another couple of years. Any other vaccine would need to have these long term safety studies completed before its rolled out.

That's incorrect. You must have misunderstood.

A biologics license (aka "full approval") of a vaccine requires 6 months of safety data following the final dose in the series in a phase 3 clinical trial.. An EUA requires 2 months. During the panel meeting they were debating whether to issue an EUA or wait for a biologics license application, which could have happened as early as.... February.

What they are doing now with the continued trials is primarily to understand how the immune response holds up over time. Yes, they continue to follow up on safety data, but they do this for all vaccines after approval as well as before.

As the American Academy of Pediatrics said, vaccines do not have long term effects that manifest themselves more than about 6 weeks after your shot. That's been the case for every vaccine in the modern era.

The reason that most vaccine trials take so long isn't the phase 3 trial, it's because most vaccine candidates don't work. We got lucky with COVID in that it has an easy target (the spike protein) and we had a new tech 30 years in the making (and testing) ready to go.

Vaccines are among the safest medications you can take. This one is out of your system in ~36 to ~48 hours. All it does is show something to the immune system so the immune system can recognize it in the future.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
We have two cruises next year B2B on the Wish and Fantasy. My under ten years of age children and I will be fully vaccinated. For clarification, the only thing we need to do is have the vax cards loaded and just take the test at the port. Is that correct?
Yes, you will need to upload them to the website, but it is recommended that you bring them with you just in case. We weren't asked for them, but had them with us.

Yes, they still require the test at the port. You swab your nose yourself (not the brain invasive one), and we waited less than 1/2 hour for the go ahead to board.

From what I understand, if you are doing a B2B, you will have to retest prior to boarding the second ship.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That's incorrect. You must have misunderstood.

A biologics license (aka "full approval") of a vaccine requires 6 months of safety data following the final dose in the series in a phase 3 clinical trial.. An EUA requires 2 months. During the panel meeting they were debating whether to issue an EUA or wait for a biologics license application, which could have happened as early as.... February.

What they are doing now with the continued trials is primarily to understand how the immune response holds up over time. Yes, they continue to follow up on safety data, but they do this for all vaccines after approval as well as before.

As the American Academy of Pediatrics said, vaccines do not have long term effects that manifest themselves more than about 6 weeks after your shot. That's been the case for every vaccine in the modern era.

The reason that most vaccine trials take so long isn't the phase 3 trial, it's because most vaccine candidates don't work. We got lucky with COVID in that it has an easy target (the spike protein) and we had a new tech 30 years in the making (and testing) ready to go.

Vaccines are among the safest medications you can take. This one is out of your system in ~36 to ~48 hours. All it does is show something to the immune system so the immune system can recognize it in the future.
You are wasting your time with people who do not understand science and do not care to learn. Enjoy cruising with knowledge that these fools won’t be getting your kids sick in the Oceaneer Club.
 

EOD K9

Well-Known Member
Yes, you will need to upload them to the website, but it is recommended that you bring them with you just in case. We weren't asked for them, but had them with us.

Yes, they still require the test at the port. You swab your nose yourself (not the brain invasive one), and we waited less than 1/2 hour for the go ahead to board.

From what I understand, if you are doing a B2B, you will have to retest prior to boarding the second ship.
I don't have an issue with the second test. I just wanted to make sure that we won't need to find a test in the area prior to leaving. My in-laws are in Europe right now and they arrived a few days before the cruise. They needed to find a testing center there prior to embarkation. Thanks for your reply.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Interesting on Celebrity but I wouldn’t expect the same from Disney. They announced several weeks ago so anti-vaxxers already canceled. Nothing to gain from reversing but people who prefer safer ships might cancel if they reverse. The ship has sailed.
 

Mindy55

Active Member
Interesting on Celebrity but I wouldn’t expect the same from Disney. They announced several weeks ago so anti-vaxxers already canceled. Nothing to gain from reversing but people who prefer safer ships might cancel if they reverse. The ship has sailed.
I appreciate your point, I would just like to highlight that my family and I are fully vaccinated, and we cancelled. We did this because we don’t support Disney’s approach to its consumers, the best way to show that was by canceling.
 

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