Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[lazyboy97o]

How is that convenient? The OSHA rule hasn’t come to pass and there is no guarantee it will and if it does, when? How soon? Will it be challenged?

I’m not contradicting myself because the people I speak of have not received the attention the true anti-vaxx community has. I’m also not ignoring what has been done, I’m just going over the results and outcome of previous attempts, not contemplating what could happen.

It’s convenient because you are ignoring what is being done so you can claim nothing is being done.

They haven’t received the attention because they are not the problem.

The OSHA rule addresses those who want to be vaccinated but work hours that make it difficult to get vaccinated and/or are concerned about missing work to get vaccinated. Yes, it may get challenged, but people worried about lost income are best served by guaranteeing that income.

What do you want done? More pop up clinics? More transit offered? What?

 

[EpcoTim]

The OSHA rule will only helps companies but we have already seen the positive results of employer mandates with corporations that were first movers and mandated vaccination on their own. Vaccine rates went way up and once the fear of losing workers to competitors is removed a lot more employers will be eager to adopt similar policies.

Yes, I know that. But when will it happen? Will it get held up in court for years? Its a light at the end of the tunnel but no one has turned it on yet.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The OSHA rule will only helps companies but we have already seen the positive results of employer mandates with corporations that were first movers and mandated vaccination on their own. Vaccine rates went way up and once the fear of losing workers to competitors is removed a lot more employers will be eager to adopt similar policies.

OSHA has also been directed to craft a rule that employers are to provide paid time off for vaccination and side effect recovery if necessary. That would help those who want to be vaccinated but are worried about the more immediate potential loss of income.

 

[Lilofan]

And what if they do not apply for legal residency?

One can apply if their employer fills out Form I-140 or if their family member is a US Citizen ( ie. their child is born in the USA ). Undocumented who has a child born in the USA is considered an " an immediate relative" and can then apply to be a legal resident according to immigration law.

 

[EpcoTim]

It’s convenient because you are ignoring what is being done so you can claim nothing is being done.

They haven’t received the attention because they are not the problem.

The OSHA rule addresses those who want to be vaccinated but work hours that make it difficult to get vaccinated and/or are concerned about missing work to get vaccinated. Yes, it may get challenged, but people worried about lost income are best served by guaranteeing that income.

What do you want done? More pop up clinics? More transit offered? What?

But I'm not ignoring what has been done, I'm looking at the results of previous efforts and seeing the gaps. My neighborhood has close to 100%. I can hop on the redline and head south and hit communities where they aren't even at 40%.

If OSHA passes, good, but there's no clear signs on that yet, at least as far as I can find.

I don't have the answers as to what I want done or what I think should be done, the people that should have the answers or at least be researching solutions don't seem to either. People seem to think shaming the anti-vaxxers and hitting them with political put-downs will work, even if they aren't true, so surely there is a solution, even if it isn't effective, to reach the people that don't fall into those political categories. Money didn't work so maybe there is no solution but that doesn't mean all efforts should be halted.

 

[dovetail65]

Maybe it should. Israel did a study. People who have antibodies need 1 shot instead of 2.

We don't have enough research and can't afford to wait months getting. Data

You need reread the Israel study and add the new study they just came out with to your knowledge base.

Nowhere does Israel state that having the antibodies from already having Covid alone means a person should not be getting vaccinated. It simply shows how great the human body and that our immune system is amazing

The study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but “doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point,” says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. COVID-19 has already killed more than 4 million people worldwide and there are concerns that Delta and other SARS-CoV-2 variants are deadlier than the original virus.

On the contrary people that had Covid And get the vaccine have the best antibody count of all!

I know it doesn’t fit your agenda and I’m guessing you’ve never dealt with severe poverty before seeing as your posting on a Disney website, but it is a real thing. 10’s of thousands of people across the U.S. live in abandoned homes, tent cities, etc., 13-14% of the country fall into the extreme poverty category and they also represent one of the largest bodies unvaccinated. According to the president almost half the country is poor or living in extreme poverty. Laugh at the poor all you want, that’s your right, but don’t deny their existence or their struggles.

View attachment 587467

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Urban and rural areas suffer from this.

Chicago’s Vaccine Disparity Widens – South Side Weekly

An update on Chicago’s vaccination efforts

southsideweekly.com

Chicago reports 70% of adults have received 1 COVID-19 shot

CHICAGO (AP) — Chicago officials touted a “milestone” Monday, saying 70% of city residents over 18 have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, but vaccination rates continue to vary by neighborhood.

apnews.com

“Among several downtown zip codes, the vaccination rate neared 100%, according to city data. But it also showed only 31% of the residents in the largely-Black and low income South Side neighborhood of Englewood were fully vaccinated.“

Sure, some of them are people of color and some not and the majority of them are poor but that doesn’t mean they should be dismissed or ignored just because it doesn’t fit your message.

Black respondents were 41% less likely to pursue vaccination. That is significant since numerous studiesTrusted Source have found that people who are Black, Asian, or from minority ethnic backgrounds are more likely to acquire COVID-19 and experience worse clinical outcomes.

Low income respondents were less likely to pursue vaccinations as well. This is backed up by the fact that low income states as a whole made up of all races and income levels even though they have as much access as every other state in the USA have low vaccination numbers.

A chart like this that only shows income verse vaccination without other information makes it seem like it's a lack of access or lack of care by society over all as the sole reason that low income have low vaccination numbers, while at the same facts show the free Vaccination clinics in poor communities sit empty in entire states.

The gap in vaccination is not always about hesitancy I admit that, but it's more that than anything else.

IN Chicago there are Walgreens every mile all giving free vaccinations. People that only make 25K a year buy food too , right? 80% of the food store in Chicago give free vaccinations so if you are buying food to eat you can get a shot without missing work. If you dont work you have thousand of free places to get vaccinated all in city where we don't need cars to get around.


Live on the street, yep the shelters all have free vaccination days. In Feb they were giving out 2200 a week at one point, then it stopped the street people that were going to get it got the vaccine and now they can't give the shots away. This is not from a lack of effort on the local gov part nor on the rest of society dismissing the poor.

In Chicago we have several plans to prioritize the poor and street people to get vaccinated, but we can't make them get vaccinated.
We( the local gov) are doing what we are supposed to do, no matter what the far left would have us think or how they try to make us feel guilty. 2 years later we are now at the point of individual responsibility. Now is the time each person poor or not needs instead of making excuses and coming up with reasons not to get the vaccination to make excuses and reasons as to why to get the vaccination.

 

[Virtual Toad]

How is that convenient? The OSHA rule hasn’t come to pass and there is no guarantee it will and if it does, when? How soon? Will it be challenged?

I’m not contradicting myself because the people I speak of have not received the attention the true anti-vaxx community has. I’m also not ignoring what has been done, I’m just going over the results and outcome of previous attempts, not contemplating what could happen.

We’ve gone from homeless, to poor, to people of color, (in addition to addressing immigrants earlier today), which embarks on some unwelcome generalizations that may not be intended but are treading into irresponsible territory nonetheless. You say it’s unfair to focus on the willing unvaccinated. That we should focus on the above groups instead.

There are in fact ongoing community outreach programs working hard across the country to address the issue. Can we do more? Always. But that applies across the board.

There’s a big difference though.

Economically disadvantaged groups— regardless of race or geographic location— face struggles most of us have never experienced. Their daily lives often involve barriers (taking time off work or childcare or working multiple jobs or shift work to name just a few) that make it more difficult for them to get vaccinated. But they need to be, and we need to continue to reach out to them in every way possible.

On that we all agree.

The other group— the “true anti-vax community” as you’re calling them— have had truly unprecedented, easy and ready access to free vaccinations now for months, just like everybody else. And many if not most in this group do not face daunting social or economic impediments. Getting the vaccine would be extraordinarily easy for most of them.

But instead of taking a quick and simple trip to the pharmacy to do their part, they prefer to defiantly refuse like petulant children, many spreading outright lies and misinformation and deflections and projections and the ever-present and tiresome “whataboutisms” we continue to hear about. They are the ones stubbornly standing with their arms crossed and make up a large percentage of the unvaccinated in our country.

What makes this group so special that they are worthy of escaping attention?

Why on earth shouldn’t they be criticized for acting irrationally and irresponsibly?

Why should government not do everything responsible— and within its legal authority— to get these folks vaccinated as well?

As others have said time and time again, we should vaccinate each and every person possible. But no one gets a pass, especially if all they care about is saying “no” just for the sake of saying “no.”

Because that gets us nowhere.

 

[Timmay]

None of these people you reference work? Do they go to bars or ballgames or theme parks or fly somewhere for vacation? Do they attend other large group gatherings? Employer mandates combined with vaccine passports would go a long way in most counties, including the ones you are pointing out?

Is that work question a rhetorical question? I mean the answer is pretty obvious. However, there is still a large percent of people of all color and ethnicity in that corridor between Milwaukee and Chicago that are completely out of the labor force. Milwaukee county currently is at 6.2 percent unemployment…with those out of the labor force adding an estimated additional 10-14% currently.

I don’t know why you want to fall on this particular sword. I live in these communities. I’d love to see county and local governments do more, faster…not just say, “well, the OSHA thing is coming at some point. Let’s spend two hours arguing about whether vaccinated city employees should be tested weekly just like the unvaccinated will be.” Which is exactly what the Racine city council did late one night last week.

 

[EpcoTim]

We’ve gone from homeless, to poor, to people of color, (in addition to addressing immigrants earlier today), which embarks on some unwelcome generalizations that may not be intended but are treading into irresponsible territory nonetheless. You say it’s unfair to focus on the willing unvaccinated. That we should focus on the above groups instead.

There are in fact ongoing community outreach programs working hard across the country to address the issue. Can we do more? Always. But that applies across the board.

There’s a big difference though.

Economically disadvantaged groups— regardless of race or geographic location— face struggles most of us have never experienced. Their daily lives often involve barriers (taking time off work or childcare or working multiple jobs or shift work to name just a few) that make it more difficult for them to get vaccinated. But they need to be, and we need to continue to reach out to them in every way possible.

On that we all agree.

The other group— the “true anti-vax community” as you’re calling them— have had truly unprecedented, easy and ready access to free vaccinations now for months, just like everybody else. And many if not most in this group do not face daunting social or economic impediments. Getting the vaccine would be extraordinarily easy for most of them.

But instead of taking a quick and simple trip to the pharmacy to do their part, they prefer to defiantly refuse like petulant children, many spreading outright lies and misinformation and deflections and projections and the ever-present and tiresome “whataboutisms” we continue to hear about. They are the ones stubbornly standing with their arms crossed and make up a large percentage of the unvaccinated in our country.

What makes this group so special that they are worthy of escaping attention?

Why on earth shouldn’t they be criticized for acting irrationally and irresponsibly?

Why should government not do everything responsible— and within its legal authority— to get these folks vaccinated as well?

As others have said time and time again, we should vaccinate each and every person possible. But no one gets a pass, especially if all they care about is saying “no” just for the sake of saying “no.”

Because that gets us nowhere.

No need for generalizations, not welcomed or invited. Never said to lay off the “true anti-Vaxxers” either. I specifically said the “true anti-vaxxers” are going to ride this out as long as they can, why not focus on the underserved communities. You proved my point with the pharmacy comment. They had the chance, they won’t do it. Focus on the areas that have been given a slight chance but have been largely ignored so far. It may not make the National numbers look a lot better but it’s serving a purpose, there is a true point in that and that point was further proven by people making jokes about it, thinking it’s funny.

Long story short; pay more attention to those in need and let the the ones willingly avoiding the issue succumb to the seeds they’ve sown. I’m not saying that the underserved communities have not had a chance either, I’m saying that these people have been ignored for decades and to expect them to all of a sudden trust services that have never been available to them is unrealistic. They need more compassion, more help, yet they are constantly left out of the conversation because they don’t meet the criteria (mostly political) put forth so far.

Everyone deserves a fair shake even if they aren’t the squeaky wheel.

 

[hopemax]

We’ve gone from homeless, to poor, to people of color, (in addition to addressing immigrants earlier today), which embarks on some unwelcome generalizations that may not be intended but are treading into irresponsible territory nonetheless. You say it’s unfair to focus on the willing unvaccinated. That we should focus on the above groups instead.

There are in fact ongoing community outreach programs working hard across the country to address the issue. Can we do more? Always. But that applies across the board.

There’s a big difference though.

Economically disadvantaged groups— regardless of race or geographic location— face struggles most of us have never experienced. Their daily lives often involve barriers (taking time off work or childcare or working multiple jobs or shift work to name just a few) that make it more difficult for them to get vaccinated. But they need to be, and we need to continue to reach out to them in every way possible.

On that we all agree.

The other group— the “true anti-vax community” as you’re calling them— have had truly unprecedented, easy and ready access to free vaccinations now for months, just like everybody else. And many if not most in this group do not face daunting social or economic impediments. Getting the vaccine would be extraordinarily easy for most of them.

But instead of taking a quick and simple trip to the pharmacy to do their part, they prefer to defiantly refuse like petulant children, many spreading outright lies and misinformation and deflections and projections and the ever-present and tiresome “whataboutisms” we continue to hear about. They are the ones stubbornly standing with their arms crossed and make up a large percentage of the unvaccinated in our country.

What makes this group so special that they are worthy of escaping attention?

Why on earth shouldn’t they be criticized for acting irrationally and irresponsibly?

Why should government not do everything responsible— and within its legal authority— to get these folks vaccinated as well?

As others have said time and time again, we should vaccinate each and every person possible. But no one gets a pass, especially if all they care about is saying “no” just for the sake of saying “no.”

Because that gets us nowhere.

There was a lot of national media exposure over the last couple of weeks about Ivermectin and now the thing @Heppenheimer posted about, which is also apparently a preferred choice to vaccination for some. Right now, the "not taking the vaccine is a logical and understandable position for unsettled and nervous people" is taking a beating with the way Delta is running through the unvaccinated and the things people are choosing in response. So what does that call for? Re-framing the narrative. Where was all this, "people need to envision the circumstances of poor people" when we spent pages talking about legitimate hesitancy among ethnic and socio-economic groups months ago, when other people were coming up with punitive options to deal with the unvaccinated? We've already had this rodeo, only back then we were the ones who were advocating for outreach, which seemed at that point to fall on deaf ears. And now we're in the same "wrong" position with the attempts to pigeon hole people to the other side.

After this last week's posts (which I suspect are following a national narrative), I might be convinced that the problem with this whole pandemic isn't a novel virus, or hesitancy, or stubbornness or misinformation. The problem is all the people who basically did what they were told for the last 18 months and now have a shorter fuse than 18 months ago with those who didn't. You do things right, do you think you'd be able to feel good about your part in everything? Pat on the back? Nope. Now we're impatient, judgmental, uncaring, etc. Do we get a moment. Do others have to be a little patient with us, just this once? Bad actors have figured out how to make good people *squirrel* and justify every dang thing. So they don't have to. Or change their minds. Or admit how wrong they have been at every step and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Anyway, masked packed and I'm off to Disneyland via Las Vegas.

 

[lewisc]

Nowhere does Israel state that having the antibodies from already having Covid alone means a person should not be getting vaccinated. It simply shows how great the human body and that our immune system is amazing

The study shows the benefits of natural immunity, but “doesn’t take into account what this virus does to the body to get to that point,” says Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington, Seattle. COVID-19 has already killed more than 4 million people worldwide and there are concerns that Delta and other SARS-CoV-2 variants are deadlier than the original virus.

On the contrary people that had Covid And get the vaccine have the best antibody count of all!

Black respondents were 41% less likely to pursue vaccination. That is significant since numerous studiesTrusted Source have found that people who are Black, Asian, or from minority ethnic backgrounds are more likely to acquire COVID-19 and experience worse clinical outcomes.

Low income respondents were less likely to pursue vaccinations as well. This is backed up by the fact that low income states as a whole made up of all races and income levels even though they have as much access as every other state in the USA have low vaccination numbers.

A chart like this that only shows income verse vaccination without other information makes it seem like it's a lack of access or lack of care by society over all as the sole reason that low income have low vaccination numbers, while at the same facts show the free Vaccination clinics in poor communities sit empty in entire states.

The gap in vaccination is not always about hesitancy I admit that, but it's more that than anything else.

IN Chicago there are Walgreens every mile all giving free vaccinations. People that only make 25K a year buy food too , right? 80% of the food store in Chicago give free vaccinations so if you are buying food to eat you can get a shot without missing work. If you dont work you have thousand of free places to get vaccinated all in city where we don't need cars to get around.


Live on the street, yep the shelters all have free vaccination days. In Feb they were giving out 2200 a week at one point, then it stopped the street people that were going to get it got the vaccine and now they can't give the shots away. This is not from a lack of effort on the local gov part nor on the rest of society dismissing the poor.

In Chicago we have several plans to prioritize the poor and street people to get vaccinated, but we can't make them get vaccinated.
We( the local gov) are doing what we are supposed to do, no matter what the far left would have us think or how they try to make us feel guilty. 2 years later we are now at the point of individual responsibility. Now is the time each person poor or not needs instead of making excuses and coming up with reasons not to get the vaccination to make excuses and reasons as to why to get the vaccination.

The report I read suggested with with natural immunity only need one Pfizer shot, not 2
I mentioned 1 shot in my post I never said those people shouldn't get vaccinated


I don't know if that is the current approach in Israeli

 

[Rescue Ranger]

Any talk of citizens of Main Street or Hollywood returning for the 50th?

 

[BrianLo]

Alberta and Saskatchewan are like our Florida and Texas (albeit not as bad). Leadership is pathetic. Here in Ontario, I am not impressed with our provincial government either. Always late to act as they try to appease their base.

Ha, right on cue Sask folded tonight. Vaccine passports. Woot!

'Time for patience is over,' says Moe; mandatory masking, vaccine passport being implemented in Sask. — The StarPhoenix

Saskatchewan continues to add COVID-19 cases at an unprecedented pace — with unvaccinated children making up the largest share of new positives.

apple.news

 

[dovetail65]

The report I read suggested with with natural immunity only need one Pfizer shot, not 2
I mentioned 1 shot in my post I never said those people shouldn't get vaccinated


I don't know if that is the current approach in Israeli

I get it,you may be interested in this then.

Is one vaccine dose enough if you’ve had COVID? What the science says

Research shows that a previous coronavirus infection plus one dose of vaccine provides powerful protection — but concerns linger.

www.nature.com

This here really has a good arguments for one shot or no shot after having had Covid, but in the USA it just would not work work well if at all.

Vaccinating people who have had covid-19: why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

The US CDC estimates that SARS-CoV-2 has infected more than 100 million Americans, and evidence is mounting that natural immunity is at least as protective as vaccination. Yet public health leadership says everyone needs the vaccine. Jennifer Block investigates When the vaccine rollout began in...

www.bmj.com

 

[Lilofan]

No need for generalizations, not welcomed or invited. Never said to lay off the “true anti-Vaxxers” either. I specifically said the “true anti-vaxxers” are going to ride this out as long as they can, why not focus on the underserved communities. You proved my point with the pharmacy comment. They had the chance, they won’t do it. Focus on the areas that have been given a slight chance but have been largely ignored so far. It may not make the National numbers look a lot better but it’s serving a purpose, there is a true point in that and that point was further proven by people making jokes about it, thinking it’s funny.

Long story short; pay more attention to those in need and let the the ones willingly avoiding the issue succumb to the seeds they’ve sown. I’m not saying that the underserved communities have not had a chance either, I’m saying that these people have been ignored for decades and to expect them to all of a sudden trust services that have never been available to them is unrealistic. They need more compassion, more help, yet they are constantly left out of the conversation because they don’t meet the criteria (mostly political) put forth so far.

Everyone deserves a fair shake even if they aren’t the squeaky wheel.

Your comment on pay more attention to those in need is debatable. @dovetail65 clearly in a recent post pointed out options for the poor to get vaccinated.

 

[DisneyCane]

Hey, remember when NY and NJ had the most COVID deaths because of the initial giant wave thru nursing homes?

Well, Mississippi is now the state with the most deaths per capita. And Louisiana has bumped New York out of third place.

View attachment 587494

Florida use to be way down on this list.

But this is for all time. What about recent trends?...

View attachment 587495

Florida's number one at almost three times the national average.

If the current rapidly declining trend continues, the daily cases in FL will return to the pre-spike levels in 2-3 weeks so deaths will drop dramatically.

For whatever reason, FL had a particularly severe Delta spike right after it looked like vaccinations were driving the case numbers extremely low. Don't say it's because of dropping mitigations too soon because cases came down significantly after the local governments could no longer have their own measures and almost all states had dropped mitigations before the FL recent spike began.

We talk about FL like it is a low vaccination state, but it really isn't. According to the CDC, for percent of population with at least one dose, FL is #18 when you rank the states. As a ranking it doesn't look great but it isn't that much lower than other "high vaccination" states. FL is shown at 65.8%, NY is 69.6%, CA is 70.4% PA is 71.1%, NJ is 71.5%. It's not some drastic difference. That's why I wouldn't be shocked to see similar spikes in those states this winter. Hopefully the slightly higher vaccination rates will keep the outbreaks from causing as many deaths.

When the weekly report comes out today I'm going to look at deaths reported in the last week by age group. I expect (based on 77% of deaths to date) that it will still be heavily disproportionate towards the 65+ group which is 88%+ vaccinated.

 

[disneygeek90]

If the current rapidly declining trend continues, the daily cases in FL will return to the pre-spike levels in 2-3 weeks so deaths will drop dramatically.

For whatever reason, FL had a particularly severe Delta spike right after it looked like vaccinations were driving the case numbers extremely low. We talk about FL like it is a low vaccination state, but it really isn't. According to the CDC, for percent of population with at least one dose, FL is #18 when you rank the states. As a ranking it doesn't look great but it isn't that much lower than other "high vaccination" states. FL is shown at 65.8%, NY is 69.6%, CA is 70.4% PA is 71.1%, NJ is 71.5%. It's not some drastic difference. That's why I wouldn't be shocked to see similar spikes in those states this winter. Hopefully the slightly higher vaccination rates will keep the outbreaks from causing as many deaths.

When the weekly report comes out today I'm going to look at deaths reported in the last week by age group. I expect (based on 77% of deaths to date) that it will still be heavily disproportionate towards the 65+ group which is 88%+ vaccinated.

Maybe it’s due to age breakdown? We have a lot of older people which drove the initial vaccination numbers. I haven’t looked at a breakdown lately but it would make sense that the 16-40 year olds were a lower percentage, and those are the ones more likely to put themselves in lots of social events rather then the 77 year old grandma going to sleep at 8pm.

 

[drizgirl]

Maybe it’s due to age breakdown? We have a lot of older people which drove the initial vaccination numbers. I haven’t looked at a breakdown lately but it would make sense that the 16-40 year olds were a lower percentage, and those are the ones more likely to put themselves in lots of social events rather then the 77 year old grandma going to sleep at 8pm.

I think age would be an important factor in immunization but it would also be a big factor in Covid risk. Not all 77 year olds go to bed at 8 PM. And Covid doesn't only spread before 8.

 

[disneygeek90]

I think age would be an important factor in immunization but it would also be a big factor in Covid risk. Not all 77 year olds go to bed at 8 PM. And Covid doesn't only spread before 8.

Yes, but we’ve heard excuses from the 20-40 year olds for months. They’re by and large the “I’m young and healthy I’ll be fine” group.

I did not say every older person goes to bed at 8pm, but let me know which age group is the majority packing into bars and clubs again.

 

[DisneyCane]

Maybe it’s due to age breakdown? We have a lot of older people which drove the initial vaccination numbers. I haven’t looked at a breakdown lately but it would make sense that the 16-40 year olds were a lower percentage, and those are the ones more likely to put themselves in lots of social events rather then the 77 year old grandma going to sleep at 8pm.

Roughly the same age based vaccination trends exist everywhere. That's why I'm curious to look at the current week reported deaths by age. Is it still largely driven by the tiny percentage of unvaccinated 65+ and breakthrough deaths in that age group or is there a noticeable shift to the much lower vaccinated age groups?