Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Heppenheimer]

This is really more opinion than science. There is nothing in science that says hundreds of people dying is un-scientific.

This just goes back to people having different perspectives. On the far side is letting everything wide open and let the disease rip through the Earths population and likely in 6 months or less we would be out of the pandemic. Lots of people would die but the pandemic would be over since anyone left will have been naturally immune or they had the virus and recovered. There are a lot of reasons why as humans we shy away from this but it is a viable option (again not a good option but an option nonetheless).

And then there is the full other side of the argument that even 1 virus death is too much and we need to protect everyone from getting sick. Again this would have to have an extreme reaction that most likely no one on Earth would tolerate and it would have a significant amount of deaths too.

So humanity has tried to forge the middle of the road option where the virus is still spreading but hopefully at a level where hospital resources are never overwhelmed and we can hopefully control the number of people who die.

That blog is not science fact it is science opinion.

No, this is also opinion, and not even well informed opinion. We have never achieved widespread, lasting herd immunity from any human infectious disease in history without a vaccine. Before the measles and mumps vaccine, the closest we got were very localized, temporary herd immunity from those diseases. But it was never lasting, and it resulted in morbidity and mortality that would be unacceptable today. Allowing the excess, preventable death of several million human beings is not a "viable option".

And the other side of the argument is not "even 1 virus death is too much" and you know it.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Well said. Questioning something doesn’t equal thinking it’s evil. It could very well mean you care enough to see it do better.
There is a real cult mentality in the extremes. People would do well to change off of (insert whatever media outlet here) and go have an uncomfortable but constructive conversation with a neighbor whose candidates’ signs don’t align with yours (in the driveway or garage now that it’s winter up north). Sit down, keep your space, share a beer and reconnect as humans. It’s what we’ve lost most in this. And it might help your neighbor understand why they need to help, not hurt, this nation we all love.

That's it exactly.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I actually agree with your statement a lot. I also think we are having more spread with the masks then people think as this virus is highly contagious. I'm not convinced masks help but even if I think they do they aren't 100% effective and can still have spread within communities.

I think it is REALLY hard to ask people not to socialize for months or years on end with no real end in sight. I get why it is being asked but I also see why people are not complying. Who wants to live their life like that for a long time? Social isolation creates a lot of depression and anxiety as well as you never know when someone you love could contract COVID and die and you may not have been able to see them for months. I don't have a good answer other than to say let everyone make the decision for themselves and then use the other mitigation efforts for when people are in public. And of course I have to state or people will assume - if someone is not feeling sick or is sick they need to isolate and also to let all the other people they have been around know that they are sick. That is the right thing to do.

Masks are a percentage game. You wear one, and your chances of infection are slightly reduced. Everyone wears one, and your chances of infection are GREATLY reduced. There's no way to reduce the chance of infection to zero except to become a hermit...which no one wants.

The socializing part is the next hardest part (masks being first, because honestly, they do suck). HOWEVER...even limiting social circles to your own home and 6 safe people (outside of work or school) is immensely better than not limiting it at all. People also need to be honest and isolate when waiting for test results and actually tell people when they've been exposed - there are a shockingly high number of people not doing either of those things.

The problem we're having is that there are a decent number of people who aren't complying with rules at all or who are complying with rules only when they have to...once they get home, the rules go right out the window...and it's going to make ALL of us suffer with more closures and restrictions for far longer than we would if everyone would just suck it up. People need to work. Businesses need to be open for us to support. Schools need to be open to educate our children. The economy needs all of these things in order to keep functioning. The longer people balk and fight over restrictions and mitigation methods, the longer we're going to be bouncing between being open and partial or full shut-downs.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Questioning something doesn’t equal thinking it’s evil. It could very well mean you care enough to see it do better.

Indeed. It’s amazing how many people on this board get upset when someone says “I miss Disney when they had daily parades in every park and more atmosphere entertainment.” It’s often met with some posters saying “if you don’t like it don’t go.” Same attitude as “move to a different country then!”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I can assure you that roughly 50% of the country thinks the opposite of you.

Actually about 44% according to current polling

 

[Chi84]

Am I the only one eating Ramen for lunch while I work from home? Sometimes I make a sandwich...

You're not the only one eating at home. When the shelter in place orders first started, I couldn't find canned tuna or bread anywhere!

 

[Lilofan]

Bingo. Stay home if you’re sick. I work at a financial institution. Before this year people with the flu loved to come to check on their finances. Even would say I’m off today because I’m sick. Why did you come here idiot?

Before covid, people that are actually sick did come to work. One reason is risk losing their job. Some companies have a company attendance policy.

 

[sullyinMT]

Indeed. It’s amazing how many people on this board get upset when someone says “I miss Disney when they had daily parades in every park and more atmosphere entertainment.” It’s often met with some posters saying “if you don’t like it don’t go.” Same attitude as “move to a different country then!”

Let’s be real, though. If WDW doesn’t bring back meaningful entertainment once this is behind us, even people willing to go now (like me), will find other ways to spend our vacation dollars. My Disney apologist nature only goes so far.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, this is also opinion, and not even well informed opinion. We have never achieved widespread, lasting herd immunity from any human infectious disease in history without a vaccine. Before the measles and mumps vaccine, the closest we got were very localized, temporary herd immunity from those diseases. But it was never lasting, and it resulted in morbidity and mortality that would be unacceptable today. Allowing the excess, preventable death of several million human beings is not a "viable option".

And the other side of the argument is not "even 1 virus death is too much" and you know it.

Funny how hundreds of thousands of deaths from infection is perfectly fine but the possibility of a single death out of millions of inoculations is completely unacceptable. Science!

 

[GoofGoof]

I actually agree with your statement a lot. I also think we are having more spread with the masks then people think as this virus is highly contagious. I'm not convinced masks help but even if I think they do they aren't 100% effective and can still have spread within communities.

Masks are a part of the overall solution, not the only thing needed. They should be combined with other measures like social distancing, avoiding group gatherings, washing hands, etc. That’s always been the case. The funny part is the only times I’ve seen here a post suggesting that people think masks are 100% effective and /or the only thing needed is from someone attempting to debunk that statement. It’s one of the biggest straw man arguments related to Covid. Just because someone says people should wear a mask, or they discuss how masks are effective doesn’t mean they think it’s the only thing needed.

Of course there is still spread despite people wearing masks. Not everyone follows the rules or if they do they don’t all wear them right, but the bigger issue is lots of spread occurs when masks aren’t required or enforceable. At home with your family or at a party or gathering at someone’s house or at a bar or restaurant when you take the mask off. So the fact that we still have spread in communities is not evidence that masks don’t work. If there’s a bump in cases after Thanksgiving it won’t be from people in masks that went black Friday shopping at Walmart it will be from people gathering at bars on the Wednesday before (the biggest bar night of the year) and/or people gathering for the holiday with their families in large groups.

 

[GoofGoof]

Let’s be real, though. If WDW doesn’t bring back meaningful entertainment once this is behind us, even people willing to go now (like me), will find other ways to spend our vacation dollars. My Disney apologist nature only goes so far.

I agree with this. Disney is a lot smarter than people give them credit for. They know this too. Yeah, the entertainment costs money, but it’s nothing compared to the revenue brought in. Let’s say the MK fireworks show costs $25,000 to put on all they need to do is sell a few hundred dessert party tickets to break even. Then all the rest of us can watch for free. I’m sure there will be some entertainment that never comes back and some new stuff to replace it. I don’t believe this talk of not bringing anything back. There was another thread where multiple people were saying they believed that.

 

[disdonald]

Masks are a percentage game. You wear one, and your chances of infection are slightly reduced. Everyone wears one, and your chances of infection are GREATLY reduced. There's no way to reduce the chance of infection to zero except to become a hermit...which no one wants.

The socializing part is the next hardest part (masks being first, because honestly, they do suck). HOWEVER...even limiting social circles to your own home and 6 safe people (outside of work or school) is immensely better than not limiting it at all. People also need to be honest and isolate when waiting for test results and actually tell people when they've been exposed - there are a shockingly high number of people not doing either of those things.

The problem we're having is that there are a decent number of people who aren't complying with rules at all or who are complying with rules only when they have to...once they get home, the rules go right out the window...and it's going to make ALL of us suffer with more closures and restrictions for far longer than we would if everyone would just suck it up. People need to work. Businesses need to be open for us to support. Schools need to be open to educate our children. The economy needs all of these things in order to keep functioning. The longer people balk and fight over restrictions and mitigation methods, the longer we're going to be bouncing between being open and partial or full shut-downs.

Are they any stats to back up what you are saying. Just curious.
How many people not being honest?
How many not complying? What is a decent number of people.
Not trying to start anything, but how are you quantifying your comments.

You are correct masks may only slightly reduce. Family member, most ardent mask wearing and shamer, got covid and was in hospital.
Makes one question the validity.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Are they any stats to back up what you are saying. Just curious.
How many people not being honest?
How many not complying? What is a decent number of people.
Not trying to start anything, but how are you quantifying your comments.

You are correct masks may only slightly reduce. Family member, most ardent mask wearing and shamer, got covid and was in hospital.
Makes one question the validity.

If masks don’t work why have they been used in hospitals and doctors offices for all this time?

nobody is saying if you wear a mask you can’t catch it, they are saying it reduces your chances. Which I thought was considered a fact and not up for debate but here we are.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Are they any stats to back up what you are saying. Just curious.
How many people not being honest?
How many not complying? What is a decent number of people.
Not trying to start anything, but how are you quantifying your comments.

You are correct masks may only slightly reduce. Family member, most ardent mask wearing and shamer, got covid and was in hospital.
Makes one question the validity.

There are tons of studies with varying results for the masks. It depends greatly on a ton of variables. That they DO offer protection is vastly agreed upon.

 

[sullyinMT]

I agree with this. Disney is a lot smarter than people give them credit for. They know this too. Yeah, the entertainment costs money, but it’s nothing compared to the revenue brought in. Let’s say the MK fireworks show costs $25,000 to put on all they need to do is sell a few hundred dessert party tickets to break even. Then all the rest of us can watch for free. I’m sure there will be some entertainment that never comes back and some new stuff to replace it. I don’t believe this talk of not bringing anything back. There was another thread where multiple people were saying they believed that.

I don’t believe it, either, for the record. I wouldn’t continue to support the diminished product now if I really thought they were that stupid (or I believed they thought their customers were). The parade route is strategically placed near shops and food kiosks for good reason (and is timed to keep you in park instead of in pool or in room napping). It’s akin to saying the dining plan won’t return. When there’s perceived value beyond corn dog nuggets and pretzels, they’ll bring that cash cow back.
My only concern is that they don’t start recasting and rehearsing and whatever else needs to happen once there is clear light at the end of the tunnel. They’ll need to be ahead of the curve or prolong their recovery and misery further by being overly reactive.
To be clear, I’m not talking two weeks of declining cases as a light at the end. I’m talking we’ve reached effective vaccine distribution to those that want it here AND in other major nations that patronize WDW in a meaningful way to their bottom line.

 

[JoeCamel]

I agree with this. Disney is a lot smarter than people give them credit for. They know this too. Yeah, the entertainment costs money, but it’s nothing compared to the revenue brought in. Let’s say the MK fireworks show costs $25,000 to put on all they need to do is sell a few hundred dessert party tickets to break even. Then all the rest of us can watch for free. I’m sure there will be some entertainment that never comes back and some new stuff to replace it. I don’t believe this talk of not bringing anything back. There was another thread where multiple people were saying they believed that.

One voice on the cost

What All the Firework Shows at Disney World Cost

Fact: Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida is the highest consumer of fireworks in the world. Disney World is celebrating its 50th Anniversary with an 18 month-long “The World’s Most Magical Cele…

collinsrace1.wordpress.com

 

[lazyboy97o]

I never realized I lived in weird places. For over a decade now every medical office or hospital I have been in has required patients exhibiting cold or flu like symptoms to wear a mask.

 

[JoeCamel]

Are they any stats to back up what you are saying. Just curious.
How many people not being honest?
How many not complying? What is a decent number of people.
Not trying to start anything, but how are you quantifying your comments.

You are correct masks may only slightly reduce. Family member, most ardent mask wearing and shamer, got covid and was in hospital.
Makes one question the validity.

What I have seen (no cites from me) is masks help with about 70% of the transmission and we need 80%+ to wear them to lower the Ro below one.
Masks are just one prong of the attack. The overall plan is to reduce points and lengths of contact which is what masks help with as do distancing, limiting total time spent with others and cleaning you and your surroundings.

 

[GoofGoof]

Are they any stats to back up what you are saying. Just curious.
How many people not being honest?
How many not complying? What is a decent number of people.
Not trying to start anything, but how are you quantifying your comments.

You are correct masks may only slightly reduce. Family member, most ardent mask wearing and shamer, got covid and was in hospital.
Makes one question the validity.

The mask protects others from you if you are sick. Your family member who got sick may have avoided infecting others if they were an ardent mask wearer.

It doesn’t take much to Google any number of stories on people not following basic, simple rules.

 

[GoofGoof]

One voice on the cost

What All the Firework Shows at Disney World Cost

Fact: Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida is the highest consumer of fireworks in the world. Disney World is celebrating its 50th Anniversary with an 18 month-long “The World’s Most Magical Cele…

collinsrace1.wordpress.com

Good stuff. OK so they need to sell a few more firework dessert tickets to break even