mightynine
Well-Known Member
“Boss, I found a great deal on this Temu thing”
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News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?
- Thread starter djkidkaz
- Start date
Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
They finally had enough Target Rewards points since the D23 expo collab announcement to get them...
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
Saw all the changes with walls down in person this weekend and the new hub is just... strange. It felt lifeless, claustrophobic and closed in during the day. Too hot and barren, even with all the trees. The old hub, with its wider vistas, grace, symmetry and kinetics (provided by the fountain and excited guests headed off in different directions) built anticipation and excitement. The new hub felt to us like a competent city park or downtown core redevelopment, well-intentioned but value engineered and lacking true inspiration or excitement.
Communicore Hall had interesting architectural "add-ons" in the form of the triangles, but aside from the facade, it's a fairly cookie-cutter building. The stage was... there, and the concert was... also there? Too hot to enjoy much of this and the choice of entertainment seemed a total mismatch for the area or theme of the building. The inside of Communicore Hall is... a lifeless wasted effort. It really did look like a hospital waiting room, community college student union or a local rec center activity area but nothing more. It's not even large enough to really do anything with so... why did they bother? A waste of time and resources for something that could and should have been more.
At night, the hub did seem more expansive due to the interior and exterior lighting on the surrounding structures providing an illusion of depth. The central planter lighting was... okay. Still not fully functional and definitely value-engineered. The white plastic covering the in-ground LED lights was already scuffed, worn and molding underneath in several spots. I fear this area will not age well.
A couple of additional thoughts. Journey of Water seemed popular but claustrophobic and again, woefully out of place. Incongruous. A wonderful diversion at Animal Kingdom but not in the heart of Epcot.
And that seems to be the biggest takeaway from the entire re-do. As the gateway to the lands and attractions beyond, the reimagining of Epcot's hub should excite, inspire, build anticipation and provide a clear set of choices. We found it closed in, lifeless, discordant, disorienting, insufficiently inspirational and completely lacking charm.
At the end of the day, the two
biggest sins are the lack of a water feature and the destruction of Comminicore West and the grandeur, grace and symmetry it provided. Why engage in the wholesale destruction of classic architecture when a reskin would have been far less expensive, more fiscally responsible to shareholders, less disruptive to guests, and less destructive to the park?
What remains is a feeling of lost opportunity and a questioning of the company's leadership, vision and priorities. More than a half decade and untold millions for... something I guess.
What was gained and/or lost in the process is open to debate, but I have to wonder--would it have been wiser to simply spend a modest amount of time and money on a less-destructive refresh of the hub, building on its inherent strengths without throwing out the baby with the bathwater?
What if Disney had, instead, spent just a portion of all that time and money restoring and refreshing Journey Into Imagination and Spaceship Earth?
Communicore Hall had interesting architectural "add-ons" in the form of the triangles, but aside from the facade, it's a fairly cookie-cutter building. The stage was... there, and the concert was... also there? Too hot to enjoy much of this and the choice of entertainment seemed a total mismatch for the area or theme of the building. The inside of Communicore Hall is... a lifeless wasted effort. It really did look like a hospital waiting room, community college student union or a local rec center activity area but nothing more. It's not even large enough to really do anything with so... why did they bother? A waste of time and resources for something that could and should have been more.
At night, the hub did seem more expansive due to the interior and exterior lighting on the surrounding structures providing an illusion of depth. The central planter lighting was... okay. Still not fully functional and definitely value-engineered. The white plastic covering the in-ground LED lights was already scuffed, worn and molding underneath in several spots. I fear this area will not age well.
A couple of additional thoughts. Journey of Water seemed popular but claustrophobic and again, woefully out of place. Incongruous. A wonderful diversion at Animal Kingdom but not in the heart of Epcot.
And that seems to be the biggest takeaway from the entire re-do. As the gateway to the lands and attractions beyond, the reimagining of Epcot's hub should excite, inspire, build anticipation and provide a clear set of choices. We found it closed in, lifeless, discordant, disorienting, insufficiently inspirational and completely lacking charm.
At the end of the day, the two
biggest sins are the lack of a water feature and the destruction of Comminicore West and the grandeur, grace and symmetry it provided. Why engage in the wholesale destruction of classic architecture when a reskin would have been far less expensive, more fiscally responsible to shareholders, less disruptive to guests, and less destructive to the park?
What remains is a feeling of lost opportunity and a questioning of the company's leadership, vision and priorities. More than a half decade and untold millions for... something I guess.
What was gained and/or lost in the process is open to debate, but I have to wonder--would it have been wiser to simply spend a modest amount of time and money on a less-destructive refresh of the hub, building on its inherent strengths without throwing out the baby with the bathwater?
What if Disney had, instead, spent just a portion of all that time and money restoring and refreshing Journey Into Imagination and Spaceship Earth?
mightynine
Well-Known Member
Now Open: Communicore Hall and More | Disney Parks Blog
Enjoy new stages and favorite festival eats: The new CommuniCore Hall, CommuniCore Plaza, and Mickey & Friends are now open. Here's what to expect.
disneyparksblog.com
If CommuniCore Hall is an example of their boundless imagination - yikes
wbostic12
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Personally, I’m imagining that I’m about to board a flight to Pittsburgh.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
You summed this up really well.
They did a great job at the entrance, removing the legacy tiles and bringing back the crystal and the flags - they needed to continue that on the backside of the park as well!
Removing the fountain of nations is the biggest mistake - right there we should have known this would be 100% wrong.
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
Now Open: Communicore Hall and More | Disney Parks Blog
Enjoy new stages and favorite festival eats: The new CommuniCore Hall, CommuniCore Plaza, and Mickey & Friends are now open. Here's what to expect.
If CommuniCore Hall is an example of their boundless imagination - yikes
There's corporate PR, and then there's arrogant hubris which almost seems as if it's masking a deep-seated insecurity. They should have been honest and said "limited only by the boundaries of imagination, the inexplicably low ceilings and woefully small footprint of what we ultimately decided to build."
^^ This exactly. They nailed one part of the project only to botch the other. It's almost as if we are seeing a schizophrenic struggle for the soul of the company playing out in real time. One group that cares about building on the inherent strengths of the resort and its legacy, the other completely committed to bulldozing everything in its path in favor of whatever they consider to be the "new" and the "now." Is it telling that the two truly inspiring things from my visit yesterday were Awesome Planet and Canada Far and Wide? Both delivered with modest budgets and doing more with less by simply staying true to Epcot's message and mission.
You misspelled, "Everything they did is great and awesome and the park has never been better!".
Thank you for the write-up. I'm rather tired of reading how everything that's been done is great and the park has never been better and anyone who disagrees gets shouted down.
It feels like the mistakes made in Epcot are the poster-children for the Gensler-fication of WDI. And no one is learning from those mistakes so they are continuing to be repeated. Probably because so many people, like many of those in these forums, continue to heap praise with no sense of history or experience of what Disney used to be capable of.
They did right by the entrance fountain. Once you walk past that... Let's just say the words I want to use aren't going to pass forum censors.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Well…. I’m not sure that Walt sitting on a **** and staring at a flower pot ***** should have gotten past the drawing board.
One of many things that should have been thrown out at the drawing board.
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, and before I'm accused of being a hyberbolic hater, let me with full disclosure say I had a great time at Epcot with my family yesterday. A treat on Father's Day watching my (almost fully grown) sons enjoy their time in the park like they did when we were younger. I can like some things about something and dislike others simultaneously. Studying architectural decisions with a critical eye and discussing those decisions can be a useful endeavor separate from my enjoyment of a new Circlevision film or a relaxing beverage with a classic view of World Showcase.
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
I think the Gensler/Bouza aspect of a lot of recent redevelopment at WDW is something that needs to be studied and discussed (perhaps in a new General Discussion thread?) How did the partnership come about? Who was impressed with her portfolio and why? Who thought sterile modern architecture and design would be a good idea to implement on such a grand scale throughout the resort? To what degree did Bouza's connection to Gensler influence the choice of architectural firms and designers and was there any responsible oversight of these choices? How did Lake Nona play into all of this?
I'm hoping that what we're seeing now with the completion of the hub and other projects (such as the Poly DVC and new Ft. Wilderness cabins) are the last of the projects approved under her tenure and not part of an enduring trend.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Not even close
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There was no partnership with Gensler nor has there been any major change in the firms being hired to do work.
Bouza wasn’t brought in to be a lead designer. She was brought in for her experience in managing and coordinating complex, large scale projects. Design driven by the show/creative side of the design team, not the architectural/facility side.
Unless you’re dealing with the firm of a specific big name architect known for a distinctive style, the size of firms hired by Disney don’t have a distinctive aesthetic. The same is true of Walt Disney Imagineering and Universal Creative. Different projects are handled by completely different teams. Even when grouped under the umbrella of a larger project there are separate teams working on different aspects of the project.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Ok….so you just fingered WDI as sucking as an organization from top to bottom
I think it is.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I still can’t figure out what exactly they were going for?
Looks like “a little bit of this…little bit of that”…
Like a Tinkerer/packrat
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the perspective. Barbara's career and experience are impressively notable, and she was certainly brought in at a challenging time for Imagineering. It's difficult from the outside to know to what degree an Imagineering president's involvement touches on the realms of design versus project management. One would think it would be a little bit of both. Her experience as a licensed architect would lead to speculation that she at least had a hand in steering the look of projects in the pipeline, but as you rightly point out, the reality is always more nuanced.
When I speculate about Gensler's connection, it comes from a curiosity about the cross-pollination of Imagineering execs moving to/from Gensler to Disney and vice versa. Even if the firm had no official ties to WDI projects, it seems to the casual observer that the real-world design trends Gensler represents seem to mirror WDI's move away from exclusively (or at least primarily) fantastical design into projects rooted more in the architecture of the real world. I've been pondering why this is, and who actually designed and approved the plans for things like the hub, Poly DVC and Ft. Wilderness cabins. Who at Disney (Chapek? Someone else?) steered creative decision-making in this direction? Did WDI design the hub redo and Communicore Hall in-house from the ground up, down to every detail, or were outside consultants brought in? I ask because the project's results are decidedly evocative of a downtown development/urban core redesign, and there are multiple firms doing exactly the kind of work the finished hub and Comminicore Hall bring to mind.
So, is there a concrete tie to outside influences, is it a matter of upper Disney management showing a personal preference for the style of architecture such as those from Gensler and other real-world firms, or is Disney simply hopping onto the trend because that's the type of architecture many of today's architects are comfortable with and capable of?
BTW, WDI is certainly still capable of the fantastical. It seems evident or at least plausible the team that designed the Moana walk-through is different from other groups that worked on the hub. So where did the more bland, real-world architectural influence come from, and why is WDW the destination for so many of these types of projects?