Toy Story Land expansion announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Yes, because they were actually being used as such back then, so it made sense. I'd argue it was too much of the park's focus, USH has a better split today and thus feels fleshed out and not a half-day park, but regardless.

See my comment about the studio areas of Universal Studios Hollywood making sense as soundstages whereas the actual park-dedicated space outside the Tram Tour SHOULD be themed to something that's NOT cheap to implement (ex. Potter). Just because it's a film studio doesn't mean you should just enter a soundstage for Forbidden Journey. That's cheap, I'm sorry we just disagree there, and until Toy Story Mania became a part of Toy Story Land that happened at HWS. But if you are going onto a film studio area and see animators draw or during a studio tram tour? Yeah, that makes sense.

The soundstages were never beautiful areas but as a park's theme it did work so long as it was balanced with good areas too, just like USH does today, but it hasn't worked in almost 20 years, and MGM was never an elite park, so comparing HWS today to DCA today, DCA is a better themed and more beautiful park. Though to be fair, DCA today would also be more beautiful than MGM opening day as well, but perhaps not as thematically consistent as MGM was.

DCA is most definitely also a better park than MGM was then overall. MGM was ALWAYS designed to be a half-day park, I mean it had 3 rides on opening day. USH has what's presently a vastly superior tram tour than MGM ever did and it has a similar quality ride line-up to HWS today.

I guarantee someone will try to be quick-witted with some aspect of my post that distracts from my main point so I'm not going to continue to respond, but the bottom line is, I think DCA is a better-looking park than HWS given the amount of cheaply themed areas HWS has over DCA.

However, today, if you take issue with Hollywoodland, then I'm sorry, you need to take issue with HWS' plethora of awfully themed areas because there are significantly more Hollywoodland-style areas at HWS than DCA has.

I don't really disagree with any of this as it pertains to the current version of DHS (I think Toy Story Land is probably the worst thing at WDW). I'm only pushing back on insinuations that the original version of the park was bad/poorly themed. It was a half-day park (as you said) but it was a great half-day. The current version is still half-day (at least for me) but is disjointed and nowhere near as fun as the original version (especially once Tower of Terror was open); it just has a bigger attraction lineup. They basically replaced cohesive theming and unique experiences with attractions, and I preferred the former (especially since I don't even like most of the new attractions). That said, the change was kind of forced once the working studio plan collapsed.

I don't know if I'd agree that current DCA is a better overall park than Disney-MGM was post-Tower of Terror, but I also think they're kind of hard to compare, a bit like Animal Kingdom is currently hard to compare to other parks. I don't think that's applicable to DHS now, though.

What Hollywood Studios was decades ago is not what Hollywood Studios is now. It’s a theme park and nothing else. Having the park be a relic of something cool is not an excuse for it’s current state.

Communicore/Innoventions may have been great once upon a time, but it hasn’t been in decades.

Hollywood Studios is not a studio. Hollywood Studios does not feel like a studio. Hollywood Studios is not a romanticized studio. There’s nothing authentic about the “sound stages” or their presentation. Currently, every inch of Hollywood Studios with a sound stage is a stain on the park.

The old HS is completely dead. If they weren’t cheap, they would’ve replaced it long ago, yet here we are.

See above. I'm not arguing DHS vs. DCA, or even anything about current DHS at all (basically all of the old Hollywood/LA theming still works well but the rest of what's left from the early years doesn't really make sense).
 

No Name

Well-Known Member
Has DCA ever contained a giant picture of play-by-play announcer Joe Tessitore and color commentator Rob Riggle, of Holey Moley fame, wearing their spectacular yellow jackets? I didn’t think so!

903E93CC-1BF0-4B80-9FA4-2318AABCB020.jpeg


I don't know why it isn't just inherent knowledge that soundstages look bad, and that soundstages that aren't presently actually working soundstages have no place in theme parks.
Not knowledge, opinion.
 

Henry Mystic

Author of "A Manor of Fact"
Has DCA ever contained a giant picture of play-by-play announcer Joe Tessitore and color commentator Rob Riggle, of Holey Moley fame, wearing their spectacular yellow jackets? I didn’t think so!

View attachment 706196


Not knowledge, opinion.
Why was it used as the entire theme for Walt Disney Studios Paris when it opened, instead of say, ports of call like DisneySea if it wasn't just cheaper? And why has it flopped ever since, and is universally regarded as the worst Disney park?

Perhaps it's just ugly (it is).
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
what do you all think the 3 worst parks are in the US/Paris?

Im thinking DHS and DSP and CA.

Sounds right to me, although EPCOT probably has an argument to make the list. The former Future World is still a huge mess.

My love for what's left from original EPCOT would keep me from putting it on a list like that, but for the general public, the attraction lineup at DHS is probably better.
 

Henry Mystic

Author of "A Manor of Fact"
Did either of us say anything about unthemed warehouses? What you chose to circle as “really bad areas” is not terrible but definitely very opinionated. For example, I see no circle around Pixar Pier!
I circled the northern area of Pixar Pier around Goofy's Sky School (or is it considered Paradise Park?) as it's a step-down from the areas they redid in the southern half which are more elaborate and expensive in their theming.

I do consider cheap soundstages to be bad areas just like I would other cheap themes like the fake carnival in Dinoland.

Paradise Pier throughout the entire land was originally as bad as the northern end everywhere, but it has vastly improved into a place worth hanging out in with more expensive theming. I can't say the same for Hollywoodland, Commissary Lane, or Animation Courtyard.

Pixar Pier's southern end looks way better than boxes, I'm sorry. You're free to enjoy whatever you like, but that doesn't mean it's a good opinion. ;)

Pixar Pier (looking fine I might add!):
1679784028406.png

1679784006377.png


Hollywoodland:
1679784280261.png


Animation Courtyard:
1679784320993.png


To be honest, I'd say Toy Story Land is step-up from the weak areas I circled on the map, but I could see the argument made otherwise, but it's infinitely inferior to Pixar Pier.

The bottom line is, these cheaply-themed areas are more numerous at HWS than at DCA. That's my point.

Don't underestimate nostalgia. :D
 
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Henry Mystic

Author of "A Manor of Fact"
Circle this bad boy.
View attachment 706201

Not really worth discussing more, because you’re convinced your opinion is objectively true and dismissing others’ as nostalgia.
Even if I did (which I could’ve) I feel like at that point I should’ve included Toy Story Land and Star Tours. Pretty much anything south of that in Pixar Pier looks great.

So if it’s a number game, DCA still is WAY ahead of HWS.

It is literally just nostalgia. People do the same with Disneyland Park vs. Magic Kingdom when DL legitimately has twice the attractions and amazing themed areas.
 
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J4546

Well-Known Member
I dont get the hate for the Pixar pier other than theming. I agree that I liked it better as paradise pier and with no incredibles theming on the coaster, but the area itself I think is pretty great. Theres 10 rides and a great (imo) nighttime show. I love the victorian era midway ambience and games, multiple good places to eat both sit down and quick serve as well as multiple shops. Some nice views walking around the water as well, seeing the coaster launch and whatnot

Incredicoaster
Ferris Wheel
TSMM
Little Mermaid
Goofy Sky School
Emotional Whirlwind
Merry go Round
Zeppelins
Jellyfish
Swings
 

Henry Mystic

Author of "A Manor of Fact"
I’d say they’re exactly the same.
Swap around a few of these (it's not an exact science), but I'm trying to describe my thought-process. Even if you move around some I don't think HWS could top DCA in terms of aesthetics/good theming.
Awful Areas areas that have no place in a modern theme park...
DCA
  • The eastern end of Hollywoodland disaster
  • The northern end of Pixar Pier (or Paradise Park, whatever it is officially) that stretches from Inside Out Emotional Whirlwind to just before Mermaid (most obnoxiously around Goofy's Sky School)
HWS
  • The hub disaster
  • Animation Courtyard disaster
  • Mickey Avenue disaster
  • Pixar Place
  • Commissary Lane the way it ruins the sightline of the Chinese Theater once you get in the hub is criminal
  • Lightning Mcqueen's Racing Academy area was built well after the studios purpose died
  • Backlot Express
  • Star Tours exposed show building the AT-AT is cool, but putting it in front of a box is not, and it's randomly placed
Okay Areas
DCA
  • Avengers Campus it should have been more but what we have isn't awful, it's just okay
  • West side of Hollywoodland
HWS
  • Toy Story Land I don't hate it like some people but it's definitely weaker than Avengers Campus and awful versus Pixar Pier.
  • Echo Lake around Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular
Good Areas
DCA

  • Paradise Park (area around Mermaid, the area to the left of it is really bad).
  • Walkway from the end of Buena Vista Street to Paradise Park (that passes by Avengers Campus and Cars Land)
  • Pixar Pier's southern end from its entrance to just past Toy Story Midway Mania though the Pixar Pal-A-Round area isn't bad; it's not as good). Personally I'd consider the southern area great, but for the sake of trying to be more objective I put it under good.
HWS
  • Grand Avenue
  • Echo Lake not including from Indy to Star Tours which is way weaker, though I think Echo Lake as a whole is overrated, and I would take Pixar Pier infinitely over it.
Great Areas
DCA

  • Cars Land
  • Grizzly Peak
  • Buena Vista Street
  • Pacific Wharf
HWS
  • Galaxy's Edge Cars Land is slightly smaller, though not by much, but I think its leagues better designed than SWGE. Remember, this list is only factoring in aesthetics, not rides.
  • Hollywood Boulevard
  • Sunset Boulevard
You see, my problem with HWS is that it feels like it's half the park that is not visually pleasing (because it is) that looks cheap and many of the those weak areas are centrally located. DCA and HWS are also about the same size in terms of guest facing acreage, so it isn't due to size either. DCA, whether you want to believe it or not, has more pretty places in the park and the 2 areas that are really bad are at the ends of the park, tucked away from the main walkways. My point is, with all of this, isn't that DCA is perfect, but WDW fans have some weird obsession with claiming supremacy when one of their parks is plagued with ugly areas versus other Disney parks. You see it all the time with Universal as well. Just aesthetically DCA wins, but HWS is pretty much equal when it comes to its ride line-up (besides the massive queues they get), so it's not that the park is awful, but that visually it has a ways to improve.

Someone could like Six Flags more than Tokyo DisneySea. That's their opinion and they can enjoy whatever they want I have zero problem with that and would not judge, but aesthetically, if they think Six Flags looks better, I'm sorry, opinions can be bad, and I would judge them for that. If someone thinks Magic Kingdom has a better ride line-up than Disneyland Park that's just an insanely awful opinion as well, but I'm sure you could find someone that thinks that (even though DL has double the rides with many that are better than its counterpart).

The gap isn't as huge between DCA and HWS, so I am not saying people that think HWS are crazy, but it is there in terms of aesthetics, and as soon as you try to call out that HWS is literally littered with guest-visible cheap (yes, objectively cheap to produce, that's why it was replicated to WDS and DCA which were cheap disasters of parks on opening day) show buildings destroying immersion throughout the park, man, all logic is thrown out the window on this forum.

And no, just because it is supposed to be themed to something does not mean that theme is good. Like I've said before, Chester & Hester's road-side carnival tourist trap is a bad theme and it's irrelevant how well it nails the idea of it. The same applies to HWS' garbage areas, as they were cheap when the park was built as MGM Studios, but today, they completely lack the context it used to have to justify it in today's HWS, which it did because it was like visiting a working film studio. The only park that can get away with that today is Universal Studios Hollywood, but it somehow manages to have less of that exposed show building bleeding into the non-studio areas of the park than HWS, so why does HWS get a pass? 100% of it should be rethemed at HWS if you have a problem with the one area at DCA that has that the same cheap theme: Hollywoodland.

Again, this ranking is nowhere near an exact science, so don't take this as me saying it's a fact and deflect the conversation at hand, but take this as just as more of an idea of the sheer quantity of ugly areas at HWS that as the sum of its faults makes me laugh when people say DCA is uglier than HWS. It's just detached from reality.

I think if you put these Awful Areas category in a vacuum, the quantity of ugly/cheaply themed areas at HWS outnumbers DCA by significant margin. Would you have Commissary Lane up high? I just don't get your thought process so long as you're not applying the same metrics to one park as the other. If you are then you're biased in favor of HWS over DCA, thus my nostalgia blinding people comment.
 
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yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Swap around a few of these (it's not an exact science), but I'm trying to describe my thought-process. Even if you move around some I don't think HWS could top DCA in terms of aesthetics/good theming.
Awful Areas areas that have no place in a modern theme park...
DCA
  • The eastern end of Hollywoodland disaster
  • The northern end of Pixar Pier that stretches from Inside Out Emotional Whirlwind to the end of Paradise Park (most obnoxiously around Goofy's Sky School)
HWS
  • The hub disaster
  • Animation Courtyard disaster
  • Mickey Avenue disaster
  • Pixar Place
  • Commissary Lane the way it ruins the sightline of the Chinese Theater once you get in the hub is criminal
  • Lightning Mcqueen's Racing Academy area was built well after the studios purpose died
  • Backlot Express
  • Star Tours exposed show building the AT-AT is cool, but putting it in front of a box is not, and it's randomly placed
Okay Areas
DCA
  • Avengers Campus it should have been more but what we have isn't awful, it's just okay
  • West side of Hollywoodland
HWS
  • Toy Story Land I don't hate it like some people but it's definitely weaker than Avengers Campus and awful versus Pixar Pier.
  • Echo Lake around Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular
Good Areas
DCA

  • Paradise Park
  • Walkway from the end of Buena Vista Street to Paradise Park (that passes by Avengers Campus and Cars Land)
  • Pixar Pier's southern end from its entrance to just past Toy Story Midway Mania though the Pixar Pal-A-Round area isn't bad; it's not as good). Personally I'd consider the southern area great, but for the sake of trying to be more objective I put it under good.
HWS
  • Grand Avenue
  • Echo Lake not including from Indy to Star Tours which is way weaker, though I think Echo Lake as a whole is overrated, and I would take Pixar Pier infinitely over it.
Great Areas
DCA

  • Cars Land
  • Grizzly Peak
  • Buena Vista Street
  • Pacific Wharf
HWS
  • Galaxy's Edge Cars Land is slightly smaller, though not by much, but I think its leagues better designed than SWGE. Remember, this list is only factoring in aesthetics, not rides.
  • Hollywood Boulevard
  • Sunset Boulevard
You see, my problem with HWS is that it feels like it's half the park that is not visually pleasing (because it is) that looks cheap and many of the those weak areas are centrally located. DCA and HWS are also about the same size in terms of guest facing acreage, so it isn't due to size either. DCA, whether you want to believe it or not, has more pretty places in the park and the 2 areas that are really bad are at the ends of the park, tucked away from the main walkways. My point is, with all of this, isn't that DCA is perfect, but WDW fans have some weird obsession with claiming supremacy when one of their parks is plagued with ugly areas versus other Disney parks. You see it all the time with Universal as well. Just aesthetically DCA wins, but HWS is pretty much equal when it comes to its ride line-up (besides the massive queues they get), so it's not that the park is awful, but that visually it has a ways to improve.

Someone could like Six Flags more than Tokyo DisneySea. That's their opinion and they can enjoy whatever they want I have zero problem with that and would not judge, but aesthetically, if they think Six Flags looks better, I'm sorry, opinions can be bad, and I would judge them for that. If someone thinks Magic Kingdom has a better ride line-up than Disneyland Park that's just an insanely awful opinion as well, but I'm sure you could find someone that thinks that (even though DL has double the rides with many that are better than its counterpart).

The gap isn't as huge between DCA and HWS, so I am not saying people that think HWS are crazy, but it is there in terms of aesthetics, and as soon as you try to call out that HWS is literally littered with guest-visible cheap (yes, objectively cheap to produce, that's why it was replicated to WDS and DCA which were cheap disasters of parks on opening day) show buildings destroying immersion throughout the park, man, all logic is thrown out the window on this forum.

And no, just because it is supposed to be themed to something does not mean that theme is good. Like I've said before, Chester & Hester's road-side carnival tourist trap is a bad theme and it's irrelevant how well it nails the idea of it. The same applies to HWS' garbage areas, as they were cheap when the park was built as MGM Studios, but today, they completely lack the context it used to have to justify it in today's HWS, which it did because it was like visiting a working film studio. The only park that can get away with that today is Universal Studios Hollywood, but it somehow manages to have less of that exposed show building bleeding into the non-studio areas of the park than HWS, so why does HWS get a pass? 100% of it should be rethemed at HWS if you have a problem with the one area at DCA that has that the same cheap theme: Hollywoodland.

Again, this ranking is nowhere near an exact science, so don't take this as me saying it's a fact and deflect the conversation at hand, but take this as just as more of an idea of the sheer quantity of ugly areas at HWS that as the sum of its faults makes me laugh when people say DCA is uglier than HWS. It's just detached from reality.

I think if you put these Awful Areas category in a vacuum, the quantity of ugly/cheaply themed areas at HWS outnumbers DCA by significant margin. Would you have Commissary Lane up high? I just don't get your thought process so long as you're not applying the same metrics to one park as the other. If you are then you're biased in favor of HWS over DCA, thus my nostalgia blinding people comment.
Bruh, enough.

Not only are you off-topic, but your dissertations aren’t convincing anybody. Preferring DHS over DCA is a valid opinion.

If you don’t mind, some of us would like to discuss the latest addition to Toy Story Land, which this thread is actually about.
 

Henry Mystic

Author of "A Manor of Fact"
Bruh, enough.

Not only are you off-topic, but your dissertations aren’t convincing anybody. Preferring DHS over DCA is a valid opinion.

If you don’t mind, some of us would like to discuss the latest addition to Toy Story Land, which this thread is actually about.
It seemed like after every post I made someone always felt the need to deflect from the crux of my argument through whataboutism so I kept responding, so I agree, the debate has gone on longer than necessary. I still stand by my reasoning. 😂

Though, I never said you can't prefer HWS to DCA, but that theming-wise, it is illogical regardless of whether you enjoy it more to say HWS is a prettier park than DCA given the sheer quantity of show buildings that can be seen while criticizing them and other areas at DCA. I laid-out said argument using evidence and not feelings.

I actually enjoy Toy Story Land for what it is. I wish it was more exploratory-based than just a single path (that makes the land feel smaller in scope than it actually is), but I like the land. Though, while the new restaurant definitely serves a much-needed purpose, at over $45 a head and with cheap-looking theming (especially for the exterior) I can't say I'm that excited about it compared to a delicious $20 meal at DCA's Lamplight Lounge, but the food looks good!

If someone's offended I mean no ill, and if the mods want to delete our lively discussion, feel free! I'm not stopping anyone. ;)
 
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Henry Mystic

Author of "A Manor of Fact"
I suppose not, but the restaurant is a step in the right direction. Hopefully in the future, they'll continue with more buildings in the area for some more retail and indoor meet and greet space. It would go a long way to allowing this land to feel less thrown together.
A retail location outside of just TSM would be wonderful!

If they cloned Shanghai’s small-ish Al’s Toy Barn shop, the land would actually be improved by a lot.

Plus, right now, there aren’t many areas to get cover from a thunderstorm and the sun in the land which is definitely needed in Orlando!

37E12B24-C3C2-4CE7-9BDB-C753E8A1BD8A.jpeg
5656DBD0-772F-489A-A106-0DEE3CB63E5B.jpeg
 

drew81

Well-Known Member

Poseidon Quest

Well-Known Member
A retail location outside of just TSM would be wonderful!

If they cloned Shanghai’s small-ish Al’s Toy Barn shop, the land would actually be improved by a lot.

Plus, right now, there aren’t many areas to get cover from a thunderstorm and the sun in the land which is definitely needed in Orlando!

View attachment 706379View attachment 706380

I like the idea, but judging from the pics I wouldn't want them to clone it. I would like more actual theming inside.
 

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