Do the fans always seem to know what's best?

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I apologize if it's already been brought up before, but...

Does it seem like the fans always seem to know what's best for the company, or at least for the parks? It seems like the fans think they know better than the powers that be do, and as such, they seem to believe that everything should be done their way, the fans' way, and no one else's. Is that true?
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
they seem to believe that everything should be done their way, the fans' way, and no one else's. Is that true?
Nope. We expect the higher ups to understand & respect the legacy & standards the company upheld initially and that it’s the very thing that keeps their success up long-term. It’s not simply about “doing things the fans’ way”. It’s about Disney doing what they were once capable of doing in the past but better or with the integration of today’s technology & innovation.
The fans here simply discuss how they feel about things, because we simply have the right to as public consumers of a product.
Do we expect them to listen to everything we post here? No, but we certainly wish they, themselves would take the time to understand their artists, their works, everything that made their company so beloved & successful to begin with, right? We know they don’t care.. the bottom line is the ‘only’ thing that matters to them atm and that’s why we should be free to discuss our feelings on the matter. We’re not obligated to enjoy whatever the company currently puts out, just as they’re not obligated to listen to ‘every’ single demand they get.

However, food for thought, For a company that’s so focused on what the guest wants. (Chapek’s words, not mine) You think they perhaps have somewhat of an obligation to fullwill some of those “demands” in a way that’s tasteful and stays true to the standards they set and ‘not’ just do literally anything to make as much short term quarterly profits as possible, to the point it comes at the expense of the overall quality of their works long-term aswell as the incentives to the guest.
 
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mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Nope. We expect the higher ups to understand & respect the legacy & standards the company upheld initially and that it’s the very thing that keeps their success up long-term. It’s not simply about “doing things the fans’ way”. It’s about Disney doing what they were once capable of doing in the past but better or with the integration of today’s technology & innovation.
The fans here simply discuss how they feel about things, because we simply have the right to as public consumers of a product.
Do we expect them to listen to everything we post here? No, but we certainly wish they, themselves would take the time to understand their artists, their works, everything that made their company so beloved & successful to begin with, right? We know they don’t care.. the bottom line is the ‘only’ thing that matters to them atm and that’s why we should be free to discuss our feelings on the matter. We’re not obligated to enjoy whatever the company currently puts out, just as they’re not obligated to listen to ‘every’ single demand they get.

However, food for thought, For a company that’s so focused on what the guest wants. (Chapek’s words, not mine) You think they perhaps have somewhat of an obligation to fullwill some of those demands in a way that’s tasteful and stays true to the standards they set and not just do literally anything to make as much money as possible, to the point it comes as the expense of the overall quality of their works long-term aswell as the incentives to the guest.

It just seems like everything the powers that be do, the fans seem to do nothing but rebel against it, and it gets really old after a while. Granted, there are many things that Disney does that I don't like, but for better or worse, I realize there's not much I can do about it, so I basically keep it to myself.

And if ever I disagree with the fans here, it feels like I'm in the wrong for it. It reminds me of this term from TVTropes.org called "The Complainer Is Always Wrong", which basically stresses being prosocial and that the group is always right (which, in this case, would mean the fans are right and Disney is wrong). Go here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong.
 
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JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
Continue to disagree if that’s how you feel. You have just as much right to voice your opinion as everyone else. If it’s different than those who are more vocal on here it doesn’t mean you are wrong. Yes it seems like the majority of posts complaining about decisions are …Walt wouldn’t do it this way or Walt never would agree with this. A viewpoint that may or may not be true. No one knows what Walts moves would have been or how he would have moved the company along in different times. Or how he would have dealt with financial situations with a company under duress.
Many fans who know how Disney should be run have never run a business or even a lemonade stand. They don’t know how to run their household , balance their checkbook or deal with basic financial decisions so they are financially secure… but they know how to run a company worth multi $$$$, with the huge numbers of staff and property around the world along with obligations to stockholders. It’s easy to be an arm chair quarterback who can make the calls without any consequences. Yes there are many things I would say Disney should or shouldn’t do but I’m not being paid to make those calls or know all the details behind the scenes that are affecting those calls to be made.
I do think all companies in business need to listen to their customers and be more open to customer service as they once were. Disney does need to take into consideration how guests are affected by their decisions and be guided more by how that served them well in the past.
But no the fans don’t always know what’s best just like the customer isn’t always right.
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
It just seems like everything the powers that be do, the fans seem to do nothing but rebel against it, and it gets really old after a while. Granted, there are many things that Disney does that I don't like, but for better or worse, I realize there's not much I can do about it, so I basically keep it to myself.
I’d argue that’s not true. Most congratulate them when they’ve made good or better decisions. Granted, I notice this board tends to stray more towards the negative more often than not. But I think that may be because even the usually more positive social media outlets and the like have been dissapointed in Disney’s most recent decisions regarding park admission prices, incentives, etc. So that’s why it’s a lot harder to find the more positive folks these days.
 
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Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
And if ever I disagree with the fans here, it feels like I'm in the wrong for it. It reminds me of this term from TVTropes.org called "The Complainer Is Always Wrong", which basically stresses being prosocial and that the group is always right (which, in this case, would mean the fans are right and Disney is wrong). Go here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong.
Honestly there’s no need to feel that you’re “in the wrong” for holding your own personal opinion on something. While true, the majority on this site may disagree with you or have a different opinion than you. That shouldn’t make you feel like “you’re in the wrong”. You’re basing that conclusion only from the results/ posts/responses on this particular site.. there are plenty of people that enjoy Frozen Ever After, cause if there weren’t, there wouldn’t be as long of a line for the ride that there is atm. Heck, the big company supports your views. So if that’s the case, why worry about how the people here feel?
 
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Walt Disney1955

Well-Known Member
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Have been on this board for over a decade and never once did someone say "We ought to get rid of Splash Mountain, it's too popular." And that mindset of never thinking that way was right. So yes, many times the fans are right. Not all the time, but I would say more than the bigwigs. Put it this way, are the fans of a sports team right compared to their GMs? I am willing to bet that the Red Sox do not go 86 years without a World Series if the fans dictate how the team is run. Not saying they should, I am just saying they couldn't possibly do worse.
 

Epct82

Active Member
I consider myself a big fan, more specifically of 80s era Epcot Center. Many of the things I would love to still have today include Horizons, World Of Motion, Energy, Kitchen Kabaret, and former versions of SSE. These are things held dear by me and a handful of others filled with nostalgia from that time period. It would make me giddy if that Epcot still existed today. Yet deep down, I know that wouldn't be pleasing to the greater, general audiences of today. My vision as a fan of old-school Epcot would result in poor returns for Disney, at least for that park alone. I have to accept that change happens, whether I like all of it or not. Change from what my fandom wants to cling to must occur if I want Disney to still survive when my grandchildren experience the place for themselves.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
It just seems like everything the powers that be do, the fans seem to do nothing but rebel against it, and it gets really old after a while. Granted, there are many things that Disney does that I don't like, but for better or worse, I realize there's not much I can do about it, so I basically keep it to myself.

And if ever I disagree with the fans here, it feels like I'm in the wrong for it. It reminds me of this term from TVTropes.org called "The Complainer Is Always Wrong", which basically stresses being prosocial and that the group is always right (which, in this case, would mean the fans are right and Disney is wrong). Go here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong.
This site for the most part is very negative but I think it may be because most people here, especially those that criticize everything tend to be the "Uber fan". They follow the company, they know the history and they supposedly know what Walt's vision was. They also seem to have a deep emotional attachment, so nothing the company does as far as the parks go is ever going to be right because it will never take them back to those "magical" days when they first fell in love with the mouse world.
Lastly, as with most "fans" whether sports, vacation places, restaurants or whatever, everyone is a Monday morning quarterback.
 

Kingoglow

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say that fans know what is best for the future of Disney.

However, I would point out that Disney Parks has built up a large expectation around their brand equity since Disneyland opened. The expectations of service, hospitality and quality of product are now engrained in the brand name. We, the fans, see the erosion of all of these services with hotel parking fees, quality of food, burnt out lightbulbs, and attractions in need of refurbishments.

We, the fans, see all of this as a state of decline in the vacation experience that we love. We want to hold onto our memories of all that brand equity and good will that Disney has built up. But as time moves on, expectations evolve. For example, resort wide wifi is certainly amenity that is not often discussed that was added relatively recently. While not perfect, it is a large perk for most guests. It is hard to weigh it against a handful guests having to pay for hotel parking but Disney does add to the experience as well as take away. Fans often overlook some perks and focus on what is missing.

So, I land in the camp of no, fans don't know what is best. At least not in a way that is balanced.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Nope. We expect the higher ups to understand & respect the legacy & standards the company upheld initially and that it’s the very thing that keeps their success up long-term. It’s not simply about “doing things the fans’ way”. It’s about Disney doing what they were once capable of doing in the past but better or with the integration of today’s technology & innovation.
The fans here simply discuss how they feel about things, because we simply have the right to as public consumers of a product.
Do we expect them to listen to everything we post here? No, but we certainly wish they, themselves would take the time to understand their artists, their works, everything that made their company so beloved & successful to begin with, right? We know they don’t care.. the bottom line is the ‘only’ thing that matters to them atm and that’s why we should be free to discuss our feelings on the matter. We’re not obligated to enjoy whatever the company currently puts out, just as they’re not obligated to listen to ‘every’ single demand they get.

However, food for thought, For a company that’s so focused on what the guest wants. (Chapek’s words, not mine) You think they perhaps have somewhat of an obligation to fullwill some of those “demands” in a way that’s tasteful and stays true to the standards they set and ‘not’ just do literally anything to make as much short term quarterly profits as possible, to the point it comes at the expense of the overall quality of their works long-term aswell as the incentives to the guest.
Well, stop expecting that. Good grief, how long does Walt have to be dead before it finally sinks in that it is no longer Walt's company. It only goes by his name. Three generations have come into the picture since his death and even close to another since he started planning Disneyland and so has the leadership of the company. Do I like the way it appears to be going? Absolutely not, but I do realize that I have two choices. I can accept and continue to support the company with my presence, enjoying what currently exists or I can find someplace else to spend my money that satisfies my needs. I have no other power or theme park management experience to even begin to say what they are doing is going to begin the end of the company. It might someday, but not today. So if I like what is left and if they don't continue to put massive requirements, counting costs, then I will still go and enjoy what is there fully realizing that all I will get from being upset about what is would be frustration ulcers.

They have no obligations to do anything until their wallet starts to feel the pain. That is the only way any company will begin to recognize that there is a problem. Until then to them it is just random people expressing that they don't approve, but Disney doesn't care. Why? Because we keep coming in droves. Sad, yes.. but not worth that much concern. When it is gone, we, in all likelihood, will be gone as well. Maybe, the future generations will be smarter then we are. We can always hope! Even my children, who were raised on Disney Parks have lost interest, this will continue because nothing lasts forever.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Well, stop expecting that. Good grief, how long does Walt have to be dead before it finally sinks in that it is no longer Walt's company. It only goes by his name. Three generations have come into the picture since his death and even close to another since he started planning Disneyland and so has the leadership of the company. Do I like the way it appears to be going? Absolutely not, but I do realize that I have two choices. I can accept and continue to support the company with my presence, enjoying what currently exists or I can find someplace else to spend my money that satisfies my needs. I have no other power or theme park management experience to even begin to say what they are doing is going to begin the end of the company. It might someday, but not today. So if I like what is left and if they don't continue to put massive requirements, counting costs, then I will still go and enjoy what is there fully realizing that all I will get from being upset about what is would be frustration ulcers.

They have no obligations to do anything until their wallet starts to feel the pain. That is the only way any company will begin to recognize that there is a problem. Until then to them it is just random people expressing that they don't approve, but Disney doesn't care. Why? Because we keep coming in droves. Sad, yes.. but not worth that much concern. When it is gone, we, in all likelihood, will be gone as well. Maybe, the future generations will be smarter then we are. We can always hope! Even my children, who were raised on Disney Parks have lost interest, this will continue because nothing lasts forever.
Best post ever. As long as folks here continue to live in the past, they will continue to be disappointed.
 

Chicken Guy

Well-Known Member
Well, stop expecting that. Good grief, how long does Walt have to be dead before it finally sinks in that it is no longer Walt's company. It only goes by his name. Three generations have come into the picture since his death and even close to another since he started planning Disneyland and so has the leadership of the company. Do I like the way it appears to be going? Absolutely not, but I do realize that I have two choices. I can accept and continue to support the company with my presence, enjoying what currently exists or I can find someplace else to spend my money that satisfies my needs. I have no other power or theme park management experience to even begin to say what they are doing is going to begin the end of the company. It might someday, but not today. So if I like what is left and if they don't continue to put massive requirements, counting costs, then I will still go and enjoy what is there fully realizing that all I will get from being upset about what is would be frustration ulcers.

They have no obligations to do anything until their wallet starts to feel the pain. That is the only way any company will begin to recognize that there is a problem. Until then to them it is just random people expressing that they don't approve, but Disney doesn't care. Why? Because we keep coming in droves. Sad, yes.. but not worth that much concern. When it is gone, we, in all likelihood, will be gone as well. Maybe, the future generations will be smarter then we are. We can always hope! Even my children, who were raised on Disney Parks have lost interest, this will continue because nothing lasts forever.
Just because that’s how it is doesn’t mean it’s okay. No matter what, Walt Disney World is meant to be “a tribute to the philosophy and life of Walter Elias Disney” (Roy O. Disney 1971), and we will not find peace with the company until this reigns true again.
I consider myself a big fan, more specifically of 80s era Epcot Center. Many of the things I would love to still have today include Horizons, World Of Motion, Energy, Kitchen Kabaret, and former versions of SSE. These are things held dear by me and a handful of others filled with nostalgia from that time period. It would make me giddy if that Epcot still existed today. Yet deep down, I know that wouldn't be pleasing to the greater, general audiences of today. My vision as a fan of old-school Epcot would result in poor returns for Disney, at least for that park alone. I have to accept that change happens, whether I like all of it or not. Change from what my fandom wants to cling to must occur if I want Disney to still survive when my grandchildren experience the place for themselves.
I, too, recognize that an unchanged EPCOT Center of old would not and could not fly today, but mostly because it reeks of hokey 80’s fare and is horribly outdated in terms of world views and modern visions of the future. What was essential, though, and should never have disappeared, was the park’s mission to inspire, educate, and explore the world of today and tomorrow for better ways of living on and with our world, just as Walt sought to do with his original vision for EPCOT. I think it could be done again today; it just takes the right minds and hearts to make it happen.
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
Well, stop expecting that. Good grief, how long does Walt have to be dead before it finally sinks in that it is no longer Walt's company. It only goes by his name. Three generations have come into the picture since his death and even close to another since he started planning Disneyland and so has the leadership of the company. Do I like the way it appears to be going? Absolutely not, but I do realize that I have two choices. I can accept and continue to support the company with my presence, enjoying what currently exists or I can find someplace else to spend my money that satisfies my needs.
None of us are expecting that from the current company leadership and trust me, ‘We Know’ it’s no longer Walt’s company. But you know full well as much as I do that isn’t a good excuse to not uphold to the standards that made the company as beloved and as large of a success as it has. There are certainly plenty of & much better ways to improve with the times while still staying true to what made the company as successful as it has all these years

The truth of the matter is, I feel like the company is currently declining by the degrees so much to the point that guests are actually making the effort to mostly spend their money elsewhere. And if things continue to go that route. I have a very good feeling that we’ll get the change the majority of us want to see. Only time & circumstances will tell, but I have faith it’ll happen. That’s the only thing we can have in times like this.
 
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Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
Just because that’s how it is doesn’t mean it’s okay. No matter what, Walt Disney World is meant to be “a tribute to the philosophy and life of Walter Elias Disney” (Roy O. Disney 1971), and we will not find peace with the company until this reigns true again. I, too, recognize that an unchanged EPCOT Center of old would not and could not fly today.

What was essential and should never have disappeared, was the park’s mission to inspire, educate, and explore the world of today and tomorrow for better ways of living on and with our world, just as Walt sought to do with his original vision for EPCOT. I think it could be done again today; it just takes the right minds and hearts to make it happen.
‘THIS’ 🙌🏻
 
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eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Just because that’s how it is doesn’t mean it’s okay. No matter what, Walt Disney World is meant to be “a tribute to the philosophy and life of Walter Elias Disney” (Roy O. Disney 1971), and we will not find peace with the company until this reigns true again.

I, too, recognize that an unchanged EPCOT Center of old would not and could not fly today, but mostly because it reeks of hokey 80’s fare and is horribly outdated in terms of world views and modern visions of the future. What was essential, though, and should never have disappeared, was the park’s mission to inspire, educate, and explore the world of today and tomorrow for better ways of living on and with our world, just as Walt sought to do with his original vision for EPCOT. I think it could be done again today; it just takes the right minds and hearts to make it happen.
Maybe it disappeared because that's not what the consumer wanted (just throwing that out, I have ZERO inside information) today. Could it be that Jane/Joe consumer wants IP in every park?? 😂 Maybe they don't want to be educated on vacation?
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
Maybe it disappeared because that's not what the consumer wanted (just throwing that out, I have ZERO inside information) today. Could it be that Jane/Joe consumer wants IP in every park??
They wanted ‘characters’, but I don’t think they expected to see IP or film based rides in ‘every’ nook & cranny of the park. (Just look at Magic Kingdom, that wasn’t a park entirely reliant on Film IP only (except in sections where it belonged and was themed properly to it; see Fantasyland). Dreamfinder & Figment and the original Journey Into Imagination ride were perfect examples of bringing characters into the park without compromising it’s message or integrity. And even if they did want more IP, that doesn’t mean it can’t be implemented better or in a way that stays true to what EPCOT should be and not have the entire focus be on the characters & ‘their’ world & story, to the point it literally showcases little to nothing about the subject their pavilion is supposed to be about.

There should be a balance between both original parks content (possibly more with original/unique characters) ‘and’ Film IP rides that still keep the focus on the subjects they should be about in the context of EPCOT
 
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Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
Maybe they don't want to be educated on vacation?
The thing with EPCOT was it was supposed to be a park that informed people on important/real world topics but in a way that was ‘fun & captivating’. If said attractions they experienced weren’t fun or captivating enough. I don’t think that had much to do with the topic or the idea of showcasing a real world subject itself, but in the ‘way’ they showcased said subjects/topics. They could’ve easily kept the things that worked with said attractions and improved the rest of it without taking the focus on the subject away from it entirely.
 
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eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
The thing with EPCOT was it was supposed to be a park that informed people on important/real world topics but in a way that was ‘fun & captivating’. If said attractions they experienced weren’t fun or captivating enough. I don’t think that had much to do with the topic or the idea of showcasing a real world subject itself, but in the ‘way’ they showcased said subjects/topics. They could’ve easily kept the things that worked with said attractions and improved the rest of it without taking the focus on the subject away from it entirely.
Check. I never went to Epcot back in the day and my kids hated it when they were small. They wanted Mickey every where. I know we use to go to Ellen's ride simply to cool off and catch a nap but mainly Epcot was the afternoon park where we did the world show case and ate.
I wonder how the Epcot of the 80s would have faired with today's video loving, cell phone carrying pre teen today
 

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