This is exactly what Universal wants. They have killed it before and will stop at nothing to kill it again.
It is ceremonial to say they are trying to help. The land is worth millions, which isn't nothing, but magnitudes off from the ~$1 billion needed for the route.
Correct. The entire premise of the 528 route being an alternative does not make sense because it is not happening. Florida is not paying for it, Orlando cannot afford to pay for it, Universal does not want to pay for it, and even Brightline would prefer not to operate it even if the funds were there. It is 417 or bust.
The project's timeline is too far out to likely receive anything in the infrastructure bill. Internally, Universal's preference is also to kill the project altogether, so no they have not seriously inquired about other funding options.Oh, and on the subject of government funding: Brightline is and has been agitating to get funding from the most recent infrastructure package as part of the $80 billion pool for national rail investments. (It's this or a future package of its nature that I would expect to fund Sunrail phase 3.)
They're apparently looking for funding for the LA-Vegas line, but I would expect that at least privately and at least from Universal that there has been pushing to potentially make up the difference using that money.
High-speed rail getting last minute push in Congress
High-speed rail is getting a last-minute push from lawmakers and lobbyists as Congress debates how to revamp the nation’s infrastructure.The House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee last w…thehill.com
Really? That's surprising to me that they would prefer 417 even if someone else ponied up the cash differential to make 528 happen, and there were no strings attached to doing so. They've at least stated a public willingness to explore non-Brightline services utilizing their track, and they've started building their own commuter service in Miami, so it's probably not that they're actually secretly against commuter/regional trains.
This, on the other hand, isn't surprising to me at all. Disappointing, but not surprising.
Brightline is an inter-city rail. Service via 528 with an additional stop would add valuable time and make them less competitive from South Florida - Tampa and Orlando - Tampa. Ridership wise, a Universal/I-Drive station is better served by commuter/regional/light rail. Brightline is okay with commuter rail services using their rails as well because it is additional capital and puts another government agency behind them, which is extremely valuable, but those schedules will always revolve around Brightline's inter-city services.
SunRail wants to build and operate an East/West service eventually. I am not sure what specific alignment they prefer, but I do not believe they are picky given that they have essentially said we will operate on whatever Brightline builds. They seem to understand that there is currently little interest in publicly funded expansion, so they will take what they can get.
The 528 alignment has the same track mileage as 417 but with much less curving (which probably isn't relevant now but becomes relevant in 30 years when Brightline decides to buy faster trains and electrify). Actually servicing the additional station adds acceleration time of about 90 seconds (45 each to come to a stop and get back up to speed) plus one minute for the time stopped on the platform unless Brightline's conductors and station management are all breathtakingly incompetent. I don't like to assume breathtaking incompetence, so I'm going to put the estimated time penalty of the 528 alignment with its extra stop at no more than 165 seconds after adding 10% to the time for reasonable schedule padding and assuming that the curvature of the 417 route isn't severe enough to impose any speed penalties. Less than three minutes isn't going to impact anybody's choice of transportation mode.
I imagine SunRail prefers the 528 alignment for the reasons I've laid out - my argument is and has always been that 528 makes more sense for the region as a whole from a potential ridership perspective along a regional service. Yes, Brightline would have priority and the intercity express trains would come first, but it's a fully grade-separated high-speed double-tracked right of way. Brightline could run 4 express trains each way per hour and Sunrail could run another 4 locals on those tracks with nothing more than competent scheduling and dispatchers; and the scheduling doesn't even need to be close to that competent for the half or less that's likely to be the top end of service on the corridor for the forseeable future.
I don’t know that anyone is disputing that route ‘could’ be beneficial. What’s at issue is that route is significantly more expensive and none of the merchants or government bodies are willing to cough up the money necessary to support that route. If they want the benefit, they need to be willing to pay for it.
It will only benefit the area if transit options in the area are significantly improved. Just getting to the Hilton south of the Convention Center would be a bit of a hike with luggage.
It is more expensive, but I'm sure someone at Brightline knows that it'll be worthwhile if you market the train to have access to the convention center/Universal and get extra seats filled. And that area of Orlando will be going through massive renovations as Epic Universe opens and the south resort develops.
I'm sure the hotels will come together and discuss some sort of transport option from the station to their hotels. Much easier and faster to serve a station a few blocks away then a direct airport-hotel option.
Brightline did studies on ridership. They obviously don’t think there will be enough riders to justify a doubling of their costs. The area being built out more is meaningless if the station isn’t convenient. It’ll always be on the far south side of all of the development.
Why is that such a sure thing? The hotels aren’t willing to put up money for the rail line. Most of their customers are going to be arriving by air at the airport and they’re not going to win people over buy saying they offer a shuttle that requires buying a train ticket.
Walt Disney World actually runs a reasonable bus network already, and intra-WDW traffic is much lower than I-Drive traffic - I can generally trust a Disney bus to actually get me between two points on-property without too much unnecessary drama.
It seems highly doubtful that Brightline would have committed to a Disney station without some assurance that they weren’t just leaving people on the side of the highway. It’s also possible that Brightline will be paying for the last mile transportation at Disney.
If they think it will benefit them then why should they not bear at least some of the cost? Nobody is doubting that a stop in area could be a great benefit, but it won’t be enough of a benefit to Brightline. We’re not talking about a small price difference but a doubling of the cost and any negative publicity that comes from land acquisition, especially if it ends up involving eminent domain.
Who's to say? Universal themselves.
Its a private company. Their business model has nothing to do with serving the orlando area. They want to connect Tampa Orlando and Miami and are willing to add one additional stop at Walt Disney World.
Serving WDW is very much part of Brightlines business plan. There’s a reason the wdw stop will open before the Tampa extension
I agree 100%. But it is also giving Universal and I drive an absolute fit and ammunition to fight this. Orlando Airport already has the infrastructure in place to transport people to all of the area attractions. So that's why I was suggesting to bright-line to give up that piece for the sake of the rest of the project.
It actually hasn't given them any ammunition at all. They'd still be fighting to get the project scrapped even if Brightline hadn't proposed or planned a Disney Springs Station, because you can spit from the right of way and hit somebody in Disney Springs. And that's bad for Universal because it means Disney or Brightline or both can go back and infill the station at any time in the future. That's the "controversy," and actually getting Universal to exit the discussion would require both existing alignments to be thrown out and Brightline to present an alternative which doesn't get within two miles of Disney. Considering where Disney is located and where the I-4 provision for rail is located literally next to it, that almost certainly means some kind of bad routing like staying on the Sunrail alignment from Meadow Woods all the way down to Tampa - which hasn't been in consideration for HSR in the past two decades for multiple very good reasons.
