Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Yes, but these ongoing refurbs have been happening since the 20th anniversary (2012) and have continued despite COVID.
WDW has taken the opposite approach in recent years, and COVID has only made things worse for it.
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Have you noticed the lack on maintenance ?
- Thread starter Naplesgolfer
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Yes, but these ongoing refurbs have been happening since the 20th anniversary (2012) and have continued despite COVID.
WDW has taken the opposite approach in recent years, and COVID has only made things worse for it.
The rebuild program has been ongoing now for 11 years.
Edit; prior to that I did see some things here and there worthy of a regional amusement park.
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John park hopper
Well-Known Member
My first visit was 1972 and the place was spotless, throughout the 80's it was still well maintained and clean--then things began to change the 90's. There was a lapse of 15 years and we went in 2017 and there was a big difference in maintenance, cleanliness but it was not all Disney's fault many people just didn't seem to care --trash left wherever
Raineman
Well-Known Member
I've always said that I think WDW is the Disney cash cow that never sees enough of the $$ it makes directed back to itself. Disney rakes in the WDW money, and spends it elsewhere. It's like a sports team that is bad every season, but constantly sells out games-where is the incentive by the owners to make the team better?
That is a factor that some people don't take into account. The more people you have that don't care, throwing garbage everywhere, damaging buildings/attractions, the more upkeep is required, and it seems as if Disney is not willing to pay for that. Decades ago, people were more respectful, so the maintenance required was less than it is now, requiring less manpower and $.
It's the difference between locals and once-in-a-lifetime tourists. Anaheim sees more locals and is held to a higher standard because of it. WDW on the other-hand is seen by mostly tourists and isn't held to the same level of scrutiny.
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NelleBelle
Well-Known Member
Exactly this! And locals respect their park! Whereas you have the "amusement park" once-in-a-lifettime "tourists" who have no issue with putting gum on rides, flinging hair rubber bands all over the place, placing their half-drunk/empty Starbucks cup wherever they please like it's a grocery store shelf like someone's there to clean up after them, 'cause, you know, "I spent $$$ on this vacation and I'll do what I want" mentality.
mikeanabean
Active Member
It's been this way for years. I believe is started when they started outsourcing most of the work.
Been going to WDW for 29 years now. I’ve noticed a slow, steady decline in details. Years ago I was at Boardwalk and looked at the small lights that go around the water. I thought ’you’d never see any of these bulbs out before.’
DHSfanatic
Member
My family and I are probably part of the problem. (No, we don't litter!) We've been going every year since the dawn of time and I agree that over the years maintence has slipped in a noticeable way. But does that keep us from going back? We haven't gone this year because of Covid, but once the coast is clear, we'll be there. Honestly, things would have to slip a long way from where they were the last time we were there (December 2019) before we'd stop going. Because, you know, it's Disney, it's fun, and we love it, despite the peeling paint, overflowing garbage cans, and non-working AA on some rides.
Pretty much. The vast majority of guests are probably part of the problem. So long as profits are made, any Wall Street company would not want to spend much more than they have to.
It would be one thing if they held the line on pricing and let the maintenance slide a little, but to let the maintenance slide while they continually jack up the rates, find new ways to charge for experiences and amenities, reduce food quality and quantity, and eliminate entertainment options doesn’t work for us. But like you said, as long as people are willing to shell out the cash, this will continue to be their business model.
At least Iger and Chapek are still getting their full salaries...that's what's most important.
allknowingeye
Member
Exactly this! And locals respect their park! Whereas you have the "amusement park" once-in-a-lifettime "tourists" who have no issue with putting gum on rides, flinging hair rubber bands all over the place, placing their half-drunk/empty Starbucks cup wherever they please like it's a grocery store shelf like someone's there to clean up after them, 'cause, you know, "I spent $$$ on this vacation and I'll do what I want" mentality.
This is somewhat insulting. Those who visit Walt Disney World multiple times per years and have done so for years and number in the tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands care as much about "our" parks as an DLR Local. Perhaps more, a lot more because we pay a lot more. And yes we do point things out to management and I have seen them act on those complaints. As it is we also love to visit Orlando, a place one can still can go around without facing the constant threat of a society in decline. I have to be honest I am not really planning to visit LA again until someone does something about the crime problem. Hopefully when Newsome gets punted someone will get elected that will do something about the decline.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
You do realize Orlando has a higher overall crime rate and higher violent crime rate than Los Angeles, right? Orlando is a more dangerous city. The WDW bubble isn't Orlando.
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allknowingeye
Member
The city core crime rate of both is almost the same. But tourists generally don't go in those areas at all in Orlando. The crimes also in Orlando are more of the property type, it's violent crime that is the major concern. Once you get out of the core of Orlando the Florida violent crime rate is half of that of Los Angeles. Thankfully DLR is in LA and not San Francisco which is far worse - what a shame of what has become of that once beautiful place.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
It's not just property crime. Violent crime is also higher in Orlando than Los Angeles.
Regardless, if you want to break the city up into parts, then Los Angeles also has tons of areas with very low crime rates. Most tourists in Los Angeles aren't going into the high crime areas just like they aren't in Orlando. You don't see tourists visiting Compton. To be fair, it's a bit more complicated than just looking at the overall crime stats because certain parts of what people think of/call Los Angeles isn't technically in Los Angeles. The aforementioned Compton isn't even technically in Los Angeles.
Of course, DLR itself isn't technically in Los Angeles either; it's in Anaheim. And Anaheim has significantly lower crime rates than Orlando across the board.
But as you alluded, people who are going to WDW aren't generally going out into Orlando itself, so Orlando's crime rate is kind of meaningless. But I think that's true for Anaheim/LA as well, because again, people who are going there are usually going to be in safe areas. I've been to LA a couple of times and never felt even remotely unsafe.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
I watch maintenance and upkeep closely. I can't help it, it's in my nature. Here's my thoughts:
From the late 00's through 2015-ish, WDW ride maintenance was a joke. Things started picking up around 2015/2016 and I was actually pretty pleased for a while. Since re-opening after COVID, however, things are starting to look a bit sloppy again, and of course there's some laughably bad things like the cutouts on Gran Fiesta Tour.
I also maintain that, while WDW has had varying degrees of poor ride show quality for years now, their parks still look great. I believe that Universal is the opposite - the rides are generally in very good show quality, but the parks are quite worn and rundown. Some areas of UOR look so dingy and decrepit that I feel that "Six Flags" comparisons are apt, even if I don't agree with that comparison overall. If you want an easy comparison, just closely observe and compare the ground at WDW to Universal. At WDW - clean and polished every night, free of stains, cracks are usually repaired quickly by redoing that entire section. At Universal - the ground is always stained with grime or rust, faded, cracks everywhere, and if they're patched at all it's a very quick job that looks bad.
From the late 00's through 2015-ish, WDW ride maintenance was a joke. Things started picking up around 2015/2016 and I was actually pretty pleased for a while. Since re-opening after COVID, however, things are starting to look a bit sloppy again, and of course there's some laughably bad things like the cutouts on Gran Fiesta Tour.
I also maintain that, while WDW has had varying degrees of poor ride show quality for years now, their parks still look great. I believe that Universal is the opposite - the rides are generally in very good show quality, but the parks are quite worn and rundown. Some areas of UOR look so dingy and decrepit that I feel that "Six Flags" comparisons are apt, even if I don't agree with that comparison overall. If you want an easy comparison, just closely observe and compare the ground at WDW to Universal. At WDW - clean and polished every night, free of stains, cracks are usually repaired quickly by redoing that entire section. At Universal - the ground is always stained with grime or rust, faded, cracks everywhere, and if they're patched at all it's a very quick job that looks bad.
We differ in regards to how long Tower, Spaceship, Yeti etc etc have been lacking maintenance and missing features.
Mr Mindcrime
Well-Known Member
As with many things, there are probably several answers.
1. It would seem that whoever is in charge of each park (Park President or VP?) just isn't very interested in routine upkeep and maintenance. I worked for a company once and the owner used to walk the property daily looking for the smallest of details in order to keep everything clean, orderly, and working properly. He took pride in how things looked and worked. Does park management do this? Over-flowing trash cans and scattered trash and clean restrooms to me, is a bare minimum of expectations.
2. Regarding attraction maintenance, see #1. The Park President should fight for necessary maintenance budgets. Park cleanliness and ride up-time (or downtime) should also be a part of the Park President's evaluation ...... if management cared enough that is.
3. I have no idea of this, but it would appear on the surface that profitability and stock price are the only bonus drivers for Management at all levels. Operational metrics (such as cleanliness) are not apparently valued as much as they may have been 30 years ago.
4. The public in general is less and less interested in doing their part. It is incomprehensible to me to see someone throw trash on the ground. But it happens more and more every day. In much the same way that we don't take as much personal pride in our appearances anymore (business casual keeps getting more and more casual), society at large seems to be less interested in respecting their surroundings and other's property. It's just a dumbing down all around us.
Bottom line, as I've said many times (and others as well), if the parks continue to be packed and profitable, Disney Management will continue spending less and less to keep them looking and working great as that maintenance budget ends up in Management bonuses. Is society so far gone that Management and Leadership everywhere is more concerned with personal compensation than they are in having pride in your product, especially if it costs a little more?
1. It would seem that whoever is in charge of each park (Park President or VP?) just isn't very interested in routine upkeep and maintenance. I worked for a company once and the owner used to walk the property daily looking for the smallest of details in order to keep everything clean, orderly, and working properly. He took pride in how things looked and worked. Does park management do this? Over-flowing trash cans and scattered trash and clean restrooms to me, is a bare minimum of expectations.
2. Regarding attraction maintenance, see #1. The Park President should fight for necessary maintenance budgets. Park cleanliness and ride up-time (or downtime) should also be a part of the Park President's evaluation ...... if management cared enough that is.
3. I have no idea of this, but it would appear on the surface that profitability and stock price are the only bonus drivers for Management at all levels. Operational metrics (such as cleanliness) are not apparently valued as much as they may have been 30 years ago.
4. The public in general is less and less interested in doing their part. It is incomprehensible to me to see someone throw trash on the ground. But it happens more and more every day. In much the same way that we don't take as much personal pride in our appearances anymore (business casual keeps getting more and more casual), society at large seems to be less interested in respecting their surroundings and other's property. It's just a dumbing down all around us.
Bottom line, as I've said many times (and others as well), if the parks continue to be packed and profitable, Disney Management will continue spending less and less to keep them looking and working great as that maintenance budget ends up in Management bonuses. Is society so far gone that Management and Leadership everywhere is more concerned with personal compensation than they are in having pride in your product, especially if it costs a little more?