Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[SpectroBro]

No one asked for my opinion, but I’m giving it anyway. Social issues aside, this attraction is stale and needs new energy put into it. I’m glad they’re doing this.

 

[FigmentFan82]

I'll be furious if they don't add "Look - the Rock!" and then point out a rock

 

[JohnD]

No one asked for my opinion, but I’m giving it anyway. Social issues aside, this attraction is stale and needs new energy put into it. I’m glad they’re doing this.

I can honestly say, it's really the skipper who makes the attraction. And, if you're honest, guests too. Go on it during the day and again at night and you'll know what I'm talking about. The vibe during the day is guests doing the obligatory ride and putting up with the jokes. At night, more often than not, guests are in on the jokes, and play along. Makes for a much more fun experience.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Just don't change the awesome background music at Trader Sam's at Disneyland, or the Jungle Cruise queue music at either park, and I'm good.

 

[MovieFan28]

Just don't change the awesome background music at Trader Sam's at Disneyland, or the Jungle Cruise queue music at either park, and I'm good.

I'm guessing they will change it to stuff from the movie if they even do the retheme.

 

[networkpro]

I agree they could definitely do that but would that be better? I think keeping the figure just for the sake of his name is pointless, the whole joke of the scene is cannibalism/head shrinking. So replacing the entire scene just seems to make more sense than reworking the existing one for the sake of the name "Trader Sam".

Headhunting wasn't limited to just one part of the world or a single ethnographic background, so if it has two feet it fits no matter what pigmentation. Spears? Yup, those were ubiquitous globally. Indigenous peoples in voluntary isolation that are hostile to outside contact? Still have them, in fact, the Sentinelese win as the people with the best border control. You try to visit them, they kill you.

 

[SirLink]

Your posts here remind me of Thanksgiving when I was a kid. I had a old uncle who often told off-color jokes and used mildly racist slurs for shock value. When we didn’t laugh, he accused us of not having a sense of humor and insisted we needed to lighten up.

Jokes that were funny 65 years ago played on the fact that few people traveled widely or had much interaction with people outside their own cultures. Now that we have seen the negative impact of those jokes told at the expense of others, we need to change.

If someone you loved told you that they were hurt by something you did, wouldn’t you want to stop doing that thing? Or maybe at least hear them out to make sure they knew that your intention wasn’t to hurt them?

As a Brit we are built with self-deprecation humor in from day one, if someone I loved said they were hurt by a remark. I would know they aren't British for a start.

 

[rick_]

New scene

2. The "natives" who "attack the boat" will be replaced by a sunken boat which has been taken over by chimpanzees. To further the story, the 5 chimps will bear characteristics of the 5 people on the pole with the rhino.

The dancing natives and the ambushing natives are across the water from each other, meaning there's either a 3rd scene they're not showing us or they're leaving the stretch of river between the boat and Schweitzer Falls blank..

 

[Magenta Panther]

I'm half black and I hate what they are doing to splash. I see it as a token change. Why can't we have both the original ride that is based on African folk tales and a new ride for Tiana? Apparently us "folk" can only have one ride representing our culture? How racist is that. I should start a new petition about this!

If you do start up that petition, I'll sign it.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

But all you’re doing is saying I’m not a person of color so my opinion matter but here look at these people of color that agree with me.
As seen in this thread there are people of color who don’t agree with you but you choose to ignore their, by your standard, more important opinion.
Seems like you’re simply using people of color to defend your thoughts. They can speak for themselves.

to reiterate. I don’t think people actually care that they are updating the ride. It’s the senseless pandering that annoys people especially as they prove again and again to ignore much bigger offensive things.

That's not what I'm doing at all? I'm literally referring people to their posts, where they have very eloquently laid out why they take issue with the scenes that are being changed. I'm doing this in an effort to not add my perspective to theirs and bias it. I'm not sure how that's not allowing anybody to speak for themselves? The more I read your post, the less sense it makes to me.

My opinion was literally that I do not feel that I am entitled to one, as it is not my community that is affected by the representation.

I apologize if I have ignored any voices of color in here who have expressed opposition to the change. I was simply trying to shine light on why some communities of people here within our own WDWmagic family take issue with the scenes. Did you bother to go read them?

EDIT: I'll take your mocking laugh reaction to my post (which I believe is against the rules) as evidence that you never intended to have a serious discussion about this. I hope someday you gain enough perspective to see the world through the eyes of others.

 

[Horizons1]

I'm specifically referring to @raven24 and @Dr. Hans Reinhardt , who have offered several very thoughtful posts over there on how they view these scenes from their perspective. I don't want to assume their race, but I believe that they are both African American.

The rest of this post is not directed to you, @Horizons1, just general thoughts on the subject.

I guess my perspective as a white person is simply that I do not get to decide whether a depiction of another race is acceptable or inoffensive to the very group that it is representing. Seems pretty simple to me. The problems with the depictions of native people in JC is not exactly a new discussion; so I'm unsure why so many of you are trying to pretend as though it is.

As a gay man, I would find it pretty discomposing if a large group of straight people were trying to convince me that a stereotypical depiction of a member of my community shouldn't offend me simply on the predicate that it doesn't offend them.

I may not agree with your points but I thank you for providing an honest answer to my question.

 

[JustInTime]

Yes

I dunno. Apparently, it's racist to depict a successful African American woman on a bottle of maple syrup so the solution is to remove African American representation from society. Splash, OTOH, has no African American representation but it's based on a racist movie, so has to go. So replace it with Princess and the Frog. Does it become racist if Tiana is used as the logo just as Aunt Jemimah was on the syrup bottle?

You probably should research about Aunt Jemima before bringing her up. They used her likeness and she died a poor housekeeper.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

I dunno. Apparently, it's racist to depict a successful African American woman on a bottle of maple syrup so the solution is to remove African American representation from society. Splash, OTOH, has no African American representation but it's based on a racist movie, so has to go. So replace it with Princess and the Frog. Does it become racist if Tiana is used as the logo just as Aunt Jemimah was on the syrup bottle?

Is that a hill you're willing to die on? That Aunt Jemima was a "depiction of a successful African American woman"? Good god.

When did this forum become a Facebook comments section?

 

[LittleBuford]

Look. I get updating the attraction. But "more inclusive"? Hardly. It's a bunch of white skippers stuck up on that pole. But maybe in this SJW woke world, they're guilty of being white and deserve it.

Look again at the concept art: they’re not all white (only two out of the five are). The fact that you assumed they were and then took it to the usual “SJW” rant vividly illustrates the kind of knee-jerk thinking that underpins so many of the reactions here.

 

[JohnD]

Is that a hill you're willing to die on? That Aunt Jemima was a "depiction of a successful African American woman"? Good god.

When did this forum become the comments section of Fox News? No wonder I stopped posting at some point.

Come on. It's an African American lady wearing pearls. If you're thinking of the bandana version that was changed out years ago. Frankly, I don't get it. No, seriously. Remove Aunt Jemimah but keep the white Quaker guy (parent company). Removing African American representation from products doesn't sound like progress to me.

 

[MovieFan28]

Look again at the concept art: they’re not all white (only two out of the five are). The fact that you assumed they were and then took it to the usual “SJW” rant vividly illustrates the kind of knee-jerk thinking that underpins so many of the reactions here.

View attachment 526862

Didn't they do the same with pirates using cool concept art before SJWing it even though it wasn't in the photos?

 

[doctornick]

I guess my perspective as a white person is simply that I do not get to decide whether a depiction of another race is acceptable or inoffensive to the very group that it is representing. Seems pretty simple to me. The problems with the depictions of native people in JC is not exactly a new discussion; so I'm unsure why so many of you are trying to pretend as though it is.

But here's the thing - at least in regards to Trader Sam which seems the most debated concern here: what "race" is Trader Sam? Who gets to decide an "acceptable" way to present him? For reference, here is what the Magic Kingdom version of Trader Sam looks like (note: the DL version of him is more problematic and I would advocate changing him to something more similar to the MK one):

This is a cartoonish caricature. It's silly with random props - a hat? an umbrella??? - and doesn't particularly evoke any particular race or culture. And the premise of the joke is that he's a salesman, not a hunter or "savage" or someone attacking you.

 

[MovieFan28]

Come on. It's an African American lady wearing pearls. If you're thinking of the bandana version that was changed out years ago. Frankly, I don't get it. No, seriously. Remove Aunt Jemimah but keep the white Quaker guy (parent company). Removing African American representation from products doesn't sound like progress to me.

Same company is also removing uncle ben for the same reason.
These companies can be absolute cowards and Disney isn't helping their case.

 

[MovieFan28]

But here's the thing - at least in regards to Trader Sam which seems the most debated concern here: what "race" is Trader Sam? Who gets to decide an "acceptable" way to present him? For reference, here is what the Magic Kingdom version of Trader Sam looks like (note: the DL version of him is more problematic and I would advocate changing him to something more similar to the MK one):

View attachment 526860

This is a cartoonish caricature. It's silly with random props - a hat? an umbrella??? - and doesn't particularly evoke any particular race or culture. And the premise of the joke is that he's a salesman, not a hunter or "savage" or someone attacking you.

Its similar enough for some people to freak for some reason...

 

[_caleb]

You came across as a social justice warrior, that is why I said it because typically they attack people for not sharing their same views.

I don’t think I’m a social justice warrior. And I’m really sorry if I came across as attacking anyone. I’m just really trying to understand people (who aren’t so different than me) who seem to see things very differently than I do.