General DVC questions

[seascape]

Researched a bit more this evening - reading reviews on different companies (boy that was a mistake) and what not. From reading the vast majority of complaints spread across multiple companies, it seems like that:

1. People complain about the lack of availability. However, we generally do not travel on a whim - we plan out months in advance and generally 6+ months. The reviews don't state how far ahead they are trying to book for where they are experiencing issues, which makes it frustrating. Are they complaining because they fail to plan ahead, or because there is a legit problem with trying to book?

2. People don't like that maintenance fees go up. Welp..lol.

3. People had no clue what they were doing (woops).

Not sure a timeshare would be in our best interest if availability is really a problem, but appreciate everyone's input here!

1. Booking a DVC during Covid19 is easy. But that is about to change. Anyone who wants to book a timeshare resort has to face the limited availability and if you can't book 7 months in advance, I suggest don't buy one now. As for Wyndham and staying in Orlando, they have several other resorts and remember this fact, there are more timeshares in Orlando than anywhere else in the world. So even if you can't book Bonnet Creek there is more availability closer to visiting. I have stayed at Bonnett Creek twice and never had a problem getting a room. but I plan well in advance and take my 4 trips to WDW at the same time every year. I can tell you if you want to go to Newport, RI in the summer, forget it. I spent New Years one year and twice I stayed there in November. Rooms there suring the off season are available much closer to the date. Atlantic City also has lots of availability. NY Midtown 45 is more difficult but I usually get a room at 5 months.

2. Maintenance Fees. They do go up everything year. All timeshares have increases every year. The most important thing to consider is are you sure you are going to use it every year. Being a newlywed, will you continue to use it after you have a baby? You should really think carefully about it because it is an ongoing expense. Timeshares are not an investment, even DVC's that keep their value because my Boardwalk points are gone in 2042 and will be worth nothing. In fact I think by 2032 no one will buy any of the 2042 resorts. Samething about Wyndham, but with Wyndham buying on EBAY costs almost nothing and people want them at that price.

3. Yes, people are stupid. That goes for buyers of DVC too. There are some people who buy a DVC and then have financial problems and sell them quickly at a loss. Look at the Riviera resales.

In conclusion, think carefully before buying. Don't buy with a loan unless you are buying a DVC and putting down at least half. Be sure your job is safe and you have an emergency fund. Don't forget your budget plan. Don't spend money you can't afford to lose. Again, a timeshare is not an investment, it is prepaying a large portion of your vacation.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

1. Booking a DVC during Covid19 is easy. But that is about to change. Anyone who wants to book a timeshare resort has to face the limited availability and if you can't book 7 months in advance, I suggest don't buy one now. As for Wyndham and staying in Orlando, they have several other resorts and remember this fact, there are more timeshares in Orlando than anywhere else in the world. So even if you can't book Bonnet Creek there is more availability closer to visiting. I have stayed at Bonnett Creek twice and never had a problem getting a room. but I plan well in advance and take my 4 trips to WDW at the same time every year. I can tell you if you want to go to Newport, RI in the summer, forget it. I spent New Years one year and twice I stayed there in November. Rooms there suring the off season are available much closer to the date. Atlantic City also has lots of availability. NY Midtown 45 is more difficult but I usually get a room at 5 months.

2. Maintenance Fees. They do go up everything year. All timeshares have increases every year. The most important thing to consider is are you sure you are going to use it every year. Being a newlywed, will you continue to use it after you have a baby? You should really think carefully about it because it is an ongoing expense. Timeshares are not an investment, even DVC's that keep their value because my Boardwalk points are gone in 2042 and will be worth nothing. In fact I think by 2032 no one will buy any of the 2042 resorts. Samething about Wyndham, but with Wyndham buying on EBAY costs almost nothing and people want them at that price.

3. Yes, people are stupid. That goes for buyers of DVC too. There are some people who buy a DVC and then have financial problems and sell them quickly at a loss. Look at the Riviera resales.

In conclusion, think carefully before buying. Don't buy with a loan unless you are buying a DVC and putting down at least half. Be sure your job is safe and you have an emergency fund. Don't forget your budget plan. Don't spend money you can't afford to lose. Again, a timeshare is not an investment, it is prepaying a large portion of your vacation.

I agree with all this. I will be honest, the economy is still very shaky. Yes a vaccine is coming but I think holiday sales will be down across the board this year, and that effects so many businesses this year to next. I say all this because I think there will be people looking to unload DVCs, and if getting a good deal is a goal, you will see plenty of them coming. Heck UK and Canadian owners can't even use them right now, I would wager a few are ready to just dump them(many had to rent points below value just to get SOMETHING on expiring points).
Be patient study the way the market is going

 

[Schweino]

The one thing that I seem to enjoy about DVC is that I am not reading anything about consistent sales pitches to buy more weeks/points that I have indeed read about other companies. Sure, it's as simple as "No" or just walking away, but I don't want that kind of atmosphere when I am on vacation.

Planning in advance is our specialty, combined with actually paying for cash for a TS and not financing, made me think that maybe it would be a good 30 year purchase (not investment). IMO I am prepaying for vacation lodging yearly, not something to buy and flip for a return/some profit. Edit: DVC wise, since we wouldn't go to WDW every visit, not sure it's worth the cost even on resale.

I am on PTO until 1/4 so I will continue to do some random reading and research. Thank you so much all and especially @seascape !!

 

[seascape]

The one thing that I seem to enjoy about DVC is that I am not reading anything about consistent sales pitches to buy more weeks/points that I have indeed read about other companies. Sure, it's as simple as "No" or just walking away, but I don't want that kind of atmosphere when I am on vacation.

Planning in advance is our specialty, combined with actually paying for cash for a TS and not financing, made me think that maybe it would be a good 30 year purchase (not investment). IMO I am prepaying for vacation lodging yearly, not something to buy and flip for a return/some profit. Edit: DVC wise, since we wouldn't go to WDW every visit, not sure it's worth the cost even on resale.

I am on PTO until 1/4 so I will continue to do some random reading and research. Thank you so much all and especially @seascape !!

From personal experience, Bonnet Creek does not have a heavy sales pitch but the best place for Wyndham was Newport, Onshore because they don't have a sales office. Plus if you don't want to visit WDW all the time, they have resorts in lots of locations and not have to pay trading into other resorts. Honestly DVC is only for those who want to visit Disney because RCI trades are not a good use of DVC points.

 

[Gonzo1]

Researched a bit more this evening - reading reviews on different companies (boy that was a mistake) and what not. From reading the vast majority of complaints spread across multiple companies, it seems like that:

1. People complain about the lack of availability. However, we generally do not travel on a whim - we plan out months in advance and generally 6+ months. The reviews don't state how far ahead they are trying to book for where they are experiencing issues, which makes it frustrating. Are they complaining because they fail to plan ahead, or because there is a legit problem with trying to book?

2. People don't like that maintenance fees go up. Welp..lol.

3. People had no clue what they were doing (woops).

Not sure a timeshare would be in our best interest if availability is really a problem, but appreciate everyone's input here!

My biggest concern about being a DVC member, and have been for 12 years now, is the fact of Annual dues increasing each of the last several years.. Last year for example my monthly dues, because i pay them monthly and not annually were $143 and some cents -- this year my monthly dues were $163 and some cents and saw there will be a 9% increase for 2021 and that was AFTER All resorts, especially DVC resorts were closed down for 4 1/2 months -- we are AKL owners of 260 points yearly -- something to keep in mind. Good luck!

 

[nickys]

My biggest concern about being a DVC member, and have been for 12 years now, is the fact of Annual dues increasing each of the last several years.. Last year for example my monthly dues, because i pay them monthly and not annually were $143 and some cents -- this year my monthly dues were $163 and some cents and saw there will be a 9% increase for 2021 and that was AFTER All resorts, especially DVC resorts were closed down for 4 1/2 months -- we are AKL owners of 260 points yearly -- something to keep in mind. Good luck!

Over the course of a contract the maintenance fees / annual dues will be by far the biggest expense, dwarfing the buy-in cost. There are limits as to how much they can be increased by, other than property taxes which are out of DVD control.

You did see the thread with the 2020 dues’ credits? Those will be deducted from the 2021 annual dues.

The 2021 annual dues are what it will cost to keep the resort running in 2021, and if DVD had under-estimated them they have to make up the shortfall.

According to the table in post 3 of this thread, AKV rose 5%, not 9% though. That’s quite a difference, where did you get your figures from?

Annual Dues (estimated) for 2021 out now

Just posted on the DVC website. Here’s how to find them: If you log into the DVC site and go to My DVC, choose Condo Association News from the drop down. Go into the Meeting Notices and Information section. Choose the 2020 info and open up, you should see your home resorts. First couple of...

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[Phonedave]

My biggest concern about being a DVC member, and have been for 12 years now, is the fact of Annual dues increasing each of the last several years.. Last year for example my monthly dues, because i pay them monthly and not annually were $143 and some cents -- this year my monthly dues were $163 and some cents and saw there will be a 9% increase for 2021 and that was AFTER All resorts, especially DVC resorts were closed down for 4 1/2 months -- we are AKL owners of 260 points yearly -- something to keep in mind. Good luck!

I have to keep saying this. Dues, by law, cover operating costs - as that is it. Property taxes, upkeep, salaries, pool chemicals, house keeping, and everything else to do with running the resort. An accounting firm adds it all up and it divided by the number of points - and then it is audited by an independent third party.

Does go up because things go up. Hourly wages, the cost of health insurance, taxes, pool chemicals, roofing tiles, sheets, furniture, and everything else.

 

[rreading]

We have two DVC contracts, both by resale. The first was before they started restrictions on resales so is grandfathered in. The second is a bit more restricted but it hasn't affected us. We initially bought 80 points at Hilton Head as we wanted to have the option of using it at the beach and it was cheap. Annual dues are higher there but much cheaper than the cost of renting rooms at WDW. Our second contract is 160 points at Grand Californian so that we have the means to stay there when we chose to since that resort is very difficult to book within the 7month window.

We are pretty good at booking close to the 7month window and have always had good options to choose from (but we don't do WDW during Xmas or New Years since it's too crowded for us then). If you're booking a last-minute trip, you're more likely to have to choose Old Key West or Saratoga Springs. I wouldn't mind staying at Saratoga Springs but we haven't needed to yet. We stayed at OKW once and it was great. The only resort besides VGC that's truly difficult to book is the Beach Club as Stormalong Bay is quite desired. We've stayed there once and have an upcoming booking there.

As Dave alludes to above, the dues are quite clearly spelled out in the annual statements and aren't a mystery. Things just get more expensive over time.

We used to commonly book one bedrooms when the kids were younger as we would return to the room to rest and have snacks. We would use the kitchen to make breakfast before going into the parks and would use Garden Grocer to deliver what we needed to the rooms to be ready when we arrived at the resort. It worked great. Now, since we tend to be in the pool/parks more of the day, we don't bother and tend to stay in studios more often.

I'm so glad that we've done DVC and have never used the points at anywhere but WDW and DL. It could have been nice to have bought direct, but I'm still not convinced that it's worth the premium.

 

[Disney Experience]

Your contract gives you x number of points that you can use to book an available room, whether a studio or a Grand Villa or something in between. You are competing with every other AKL owner to book those rooms. You have no guarantee to be able to book a particular room type or even any room for the dates you want.

Only “guaranteed weeks” give you that guarantee, and those are only available at Poly, Copper Creek and Riviera (maybe Grand Floridian, not sure).

I been a DVC member for over twenty years and have owned at Beach Club, Bay Lake Towers, and Grand Floridian. None have a guarantee week. First I have heard of it, but then again I did not buy points at Poly, Copper Creek or Riviera.

 

[nickys]

I been a DVC member for over twenty years and have owned at Beach Club, Bay Lake Towers, and Grand Floridian. None have a guarantee week. First I have heard of it, but then again I did not buy points at Poly, Copper Creek or Riviera.

So there are two types of guaranteed week, which were only sold at the more recent resorts. One is where you choose a week of the year which gives you that type of room for that particular week every year. It costs 10% more than the actual no. of points required at the time of purchase (some people now have a guaranteed week that would cost them more points than they own to book). It’s automatically booked for you but you can choose to cancel it and use the points as normal.

I can’t find the page on the website, sorry.

Then they also introduced RunDisney guaranteed weeks to coincide with whichever race you choose.

runDisney Event Weeks at Disney World | Disney Vacation Club

Take advantage of a magical opportunity from Disney Vacation Club to purchase a Guaranteed Event Week during select runDisney races.

disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com

 

[Buck Wheelie]

3. Resale gives you the same options for booking as direct except when it comes to Riviera. If you buy resale at any other WDW resort, or Vero or Hilton Head, you cannot use your points at Riviera. But you can book at any of the original resorts (sometimes referred to as “legacy” resorts) at 7 months.

Wanted to add that if you buy a Riviera resale you can only use it at Riviera. In my opinion buying one of the original DVC resorts (especially OKW 2057 or SSR) in resale market is best value. There are other ways to to get perks like using a Disney Visa or Annual Pass. No matter what is the best value I would only buy somewhere you want to stay, not the cheapest points price.

DVC has been a great value for us for the 13 years we have owned but its not for everyone. Only other advice is if you do purchase resale I would recommend you buy for a reputable resale firm. There are a few out there to choose from.

 

[Phonedave]

We have two DVC contracts, both by resale. The first was before they started restrictions on resales so is grandfathered in. The second is a bit more restricted but it hasn't affected us. We initially bought 80 points at Hilton Head as we wanted to have the option of using it at the beach and it was cheap. Annual dues are higher there but much cheaper than the cost of renting rooms at WDW. Our second contract is 160 points at Grand Californian so that we have the means to stay there when we chose to since that resort is very difficult to book within the 7month window.

We are pretty good at booking close to the 7month window and have always had good options to choose from (but we don't do WDW during Xmas or New Years since it's too crowded for us then). If you're booking a last-minute trip, you're more likely to have to choose Old Key West or Saratoga Springs. I wouldn't mind staying at Saratoga Springs but we haven't needed to yet. We stayed at OKW once and it was great. The only resort besides VGC that's truly difficult to book is the Beach Club as Stormalong Bay is quite desired. We've stayed there once and have an upcoming booking there.

As Dave alludes to above, the dues are quite clearly spelled out in the annual statements and aren't a mystery. Things just get more expensive over time.

We used to commonly book one bedrooms when the kids were younger as we would return to the room to rest and have snacks. We would use the kitchen to make breakfast before going into the parks and would use Garden Grocer to deliver what we needed to the rooms to be ready when we arrived at the resort. It worked great. Now, since we tend to be in the pool/parks more of the day, we don't bother and tend to stay in studios more often.

I'm so glad that we've done DVC and have never used the points at anywhere but WDW and DL. It could have been nice to have bought direct, but I'm still not convinced that it's worth the premium.

Another resort that is hard to book is Boardwalk (and again as you said Beach Club) during Food and Wine. I suspect that going forward, during Food and Wine, Rivera will be difficult as well.

 

[Indy_UK]

My Husband and I have been saving money each money with the Intention of buying something like 160 points resale for AKL. With constantly rising annual dues, its put us off quite a bit in buying. COVID has also made us wonder if we wanted another commitment, especially in property.

Think we'll keep saving for another year by which we would have enough to buy outright a contract and then see. The only draw im finding at the moment is 'owning' something per se

 

[LuvtheGoof]

My Husband and I have been saving money each money with the Intention of buying something like 160 points resale for AKL. With constantly rising annual dues, its put us off quite a bit in buying. COVID has also made us wonder if we wanted another commitment, especially in property.

Think we'll keep saving for another year by which we would have enough to buy outright a contract and then see. The only draw im finding at the moment is 'owning' something per se

Yes, the dues go up every year, but usually less than the regular room rate percentage. The dues this year at AKL went up $.23 per point, so your 160 points would cost you an extra $38 for the year. When you are spending thousands on the points, $38 seems pretty trivial.

 

[Gonzo1]

Maybe so when you look at thousands in terms of a vacation per year BUT you are still going to spend $1200-1500 per year for the length of the ownership...before your ownership is over figure on possibly 200 to 250 per month for the rest of your ownership.

 

[Buck Wheelie]

For our stay later this year, one week in a 2BR the cash price was $7633 and our dues were $1266. DVC isn't for everyone but we have owned it for years and it has more than paid for itself even with the cost of dues.

 

[Indy_UK]

Maybe so when you look at thousands in terms of a vacation per year BUT you are still going to spend $1200-1500 per year for the length of the ownership...before your ownership is over figure on possibly 200 to 250 per month for the rest of your ownership.

That's the thing for me. From the UK when you book a 2 week vacation package, the total cost will be say £6,000. The Hotel portion will make up £2.5K of that. DVC is decent value but then i'm paying £1.2K a year towards the dues.

 

[Indy_UK]

Yes, the dues go up every year, but usually less than the regular room rate percentage. The dues this year at AKL went up $.23 per point, so your 160 points would cost you an extra $38 for the year. When you are spending thousands on the points, $38 seems pretty trivial.

I don't mind the small yearly increases cos as you say, you probably don't notice them but i think for new people coming in, its a chuck of change to start paying from the offset where as im sure older owners have been eased in more over the years

 

[nickys]

That's the thing for me. From the UK when you book a 2 week vacation package, the total cost will be say £6,000. The Hotel portion will make up £2.5K of that. DVC is decent value but then i'm paying £1.2K a year towards the dues.

So then you need to weigh up how often you’ll come, where you would otherwise stay if you booked a package and so on.

We pay around £1000 a year in dues and come every 3 years or so (before Covid). But we’ve stayed in a 1-bed up until now (thinking of a 2-bed now so the boys’ stuff isn’t all over the living room). Last time our Christmas trip cost us £600 a night for the extra days we paid cash for, and that’s with a 25% discount. Factor that in for 12-14 days and we can see the value. We couldn’t be in a hotel room that long with all 4 of us. Plus we make meals in the room.

I reckon we would have broken even after our cancelled Christmas trip in 2020, so next time we should. After that we will be saving every time we come. And by renting the points out we couldn’t use I covered the dues for those years.

You need to do the maths for sure. And to be honest I think you’re right to wait until international travel is back and then decide.

 

[Phonedave]

I don't mind the small yearly increases cos as you say, you probably don't notice them but i think for new people coming in, its a chuck of change to start paying from the offset where as im sure older owners have been eased in more over the years

Dues reflect the real costs to run the resort, that is law. They go up (and down) based on the actual costs to run the resort. When I bought in 10+ years ago, they were a lot lower, but they still had the same relative impact based on inflation. A dollar in dues then is a $1.40 in dues now (or whatever the amount is) and it has the same "feeling" to me.

No two ways about it, DVC is a chunk of change no matter when you buy into it.