SPOILERS: The Mandalorian Season 2 Discussion

[_caleb]

It's nice to see a fandom site roll its eyes at spurious rumors rather than drink the Kool-Aid in vain credulity due to their Kennedy nerdrage.

Right? At least this site is saying that @WDW Pro’s claim and—not the reported “internal pressure”—is the the “news” here. Key quote:

But the latest rumor is a real head-scratcher even for those who follow this stuff. In an extremely circuitous article by ‘WDW Pro’ on the Pirates and Princesses site, it’s being claimed that there is “immense pressure” from within the company to ditch the Luke Skywalker and Baby Yoda storyline from all future plans.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's nice to see a fandom site roll its eyes at spurious rumors rather than drink the Kool-Aid in vain credulity due to their Kennedy nerdrage.

It’s funny...I’ve been accused of not letting things go on occasion...

 

[MisterPenguin]

It’s funny...I’ve been accused of not letting things go on occasion...

I didn't bring this up. Someone else did.

But thanks for displaying the zeitgeist defense of our generation: That when someone is caught with their hand in the cookie jar, their defense is, "No, you're the cookie thief!!"

It's pretty pathetic.

 

[_caleb]

It’s funny...I’ve been accused of not letting things go on occasion...

To be fair, it’s a persistent narrative. Anything fans don’t like gets pinned on Kennedy, and anything fans do like is rumored to be threatened by her.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I didn't bring this up. Someone else did.

But thanks for displaying the zeitgeist defense of our generation: That when someone is caught with their hand in the cookie jar, their defense is, "No, you're the cookie thief!!"

It's pretty pathetic.

I didn’t comment on it...because I don’t really buy it here. But you can’t dismiss it either. It’s basically the same story that the horses mouth gave about The Farce Awakens in 2015. The same.

So you didn’t need to lower your scruples with the “nerdrage”. Say nothing. Then we both can stop annoying each other.

To be fair, it’s a persistent narrative. Anything fans don’t like gets pinned on Kennedy, and anything fans do like is rumored to be threatened by her.

I agree...just because you don’t pee on the idea...doesn’t mean your 101% on board with it either. I don’t know why this is hard to conceptualize?

 

[_caleb]

I agree...just because you don’t pee on the idea...doesn’t mean your 101% on board with it either. I don’t know why this is hard to conceptualize?

You’re right, I’m not. I’m a huge Mandalorian fan and think it captures so much of what feels like Star Wars to me. But I think the truth is lost somewhere in the middle here. I find that the narrative that “Kathleen Kennedy is a raging woke SJW who is ruining Star Wars” is coming from the same people who seem to think any mention of race, diversity, representation, and cultural awareness is automatically a militant marxist agenda. So I can see that her desire to add diversity and inclusion to Star Wars is possibly receiving a deliberate overreaction.

As @MisterPenguin has said- until we hear something directly from the parties in the room (and we won’t), we don’t know that there’s an internal battle going on. I’m sure there are artistic and philosophical differences, but that’s what has always made for great storytelling. The argument is the same for Disney Execs and Imagineers: if you blame them for the missteps committed on their watch, you should also give them credit for the successes on their watch.

Also, I do not believe WDWPro is a LucasFilm insider. The linked article is a good example of the widespread influence of sites like this (and Pro’s new home at P&P) across the fandoms.

 

[erasure fan1]

But you can’t dismiss it either. It’s basically the same story that the horses mouth gave about The Farce Awakens in 2015. The same.

Exactly. We were told from Lucasfilm that every time they brought Luke into ep7, he took over. So they decided on sidelining him. Now all of a sudden there is this HUGE change of heart? Maybe. But it seems there is some sort of opposing thought process going on. The only thing we know, is that we'll probably never get a straight answer.

 

[flynnibus]

As @MisterPenguin has said- until we hear something directly from the parties in the room (and we won’t), we don’t know that there’s an internal battle going on. I’m sure there are artistic and philosophical differences, but that’s what has always made for great storytelling. The argument is the same for Disney Execs and Imagineers: if you blame them for the missteps committed on their watch, you should also give them credit for the successes on their watch.

I think if you watch the disney gallery episodes verse the follow up stuff to the sequels its painfully obvious the difference in her contributions. In the disney gallery show her contribution is basically to smile and nod along as others reminisce on how things evolved.... and I don’t recall a single comment where someone said “and we went to KK and she did XYZ...”. You pretty much only got the point that JonF pitched it, and they approved his desire to use all these different directors. Its more about the body language in those table discussions. You can tell who is leading and who is riding along. No one is deferring to her for approval in their statements or points... they are running and shes just watching.

So she gets credit for not mucking it up by staying out of it? (Counter to their dreaded story group f up of the sequels)

 

[_caleb]

I think if you watch the disney gallery episodes verse the follow up stuff to the sequels its painfully obvious the difference in her contributions. In the disney gallery show her contribution is basically to smile and nod along as others reminisce on how things evolved.... and I don’t recall a single comment where someone said “and we went to KK and she did XYZ...”. You pretty much only got the point that JonF pitched it, and they approved his desire to use all these different directors. Its more about the body language in those table discussions. You can tell who is leading and who is riding along. No one is deferring to her for approval in their statements or points... they are running and shes just watching.

So she gets credit for not mucking it up by staying out of it? (Counter to their dreaded story group f up of the sequels)

The “Darth Kennedy” narrative may indeed be correct. But you’re analyzing body language and making arguments from silence in support of it. We don’t know why Kathleen Kennedy was quiet in the Gallery episodes—could have been her own choice. Given her past comments about ”stepping back,” it’s entirely possible that she is deliberately letting Favreau/Filoni take the lead.

My point is that the narrative may be convenient and give fans a clear villain to blame for everything they’ve disliked about what Star Wars has become, but it’s likely way too simple to be the whole story.

 

[MisterPenguin]

and I don’t recall a single comment where someone said “and we went to KK and she did XYZ...”.

It's there. You missed it. Jon talks about going to Kathy with ideas and getting the full backing of ILM, of which she is also in charge.

 

[flynnibus]

The “Darth Kennedy” narrative may indeed be correct. But you’re analyzing body language and making arguments from silence in support of it. We don’t know why Kathleen Kennedy was quiet in the Gallery episodes—could have been her own choice. Given her past comments about ”stepping back,” it’s entirely possible that she is deliberately letting Favreau/Filoni take the lead.

while she can make that choice - that doesn’t change the behavior of others in the room. That was the real tell. That’s why I believe she was hands off and not really part of the process. And why I don’t give credit for ‘just being the boss’ or ‘staying out of it’. She gets credit for not blocking it and avoiding their past meddling screw ups. That’s points for staying clear - not points for building something.

you can tell a lot by how peopke interact, how a person changes (or not) based on who is in the room, etc. It is a critical skill in sales to read the room and decode the real roles and who people will defer to. Nobody in that room was following KK or seeking her approval before moving. It conveyed (imo) that she was an outsider to the process.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I see we've reached the "you can tell who is doing the best job at Star Wars-ing based on body language in a behind-the-scenes special" phase.

 

[LSLS]

The “Darth Kennedy” narrative may indeed be correct. But you’re analyzing body language and making arguments from silence in support of it. We don’t know why Kathleen Kennedy was quiet in the Gallery episodes—could have been her own choice. Given her past comments about ”stepping back,” it’s entirely possible that she is deliberately letting Favreau/Filoni take the lead.

My point is that the narrative may be convenient and give fans a clear villain to blame for everything they’ve disliked about what Star Wars has become, but it’s likely way too simple to be the whole story.

Maybe to an extent. But I could have sworn there were multiple reports about her backing Johnson and being very involved in the films, and i dont hear that much with mandolorian. I'm sure she's had some input (or has had things brought to her), but I think its fair to say that she was most likely a lot more involved in the films than she is here.

 

[flynnibus]

I see we've reached the "you can tell who is doing the best job at Star Wars-ing based on body language in a behind-the-scenes special" phase.

Sorry, its a real job skill for people whose job it is to convince people to buy stuff.

Psychology is real.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe to an extent. But I could have sworn there were multiple reports about her backing Johnson and being very involved in the films, and i dont hear that much with mandolorian. I'm sure she's had some input (or has had things brought to her), but I think its fair to say that she was most likely a lot more involved in the films than she is here.

This is exactly what happened...but it doesn’t make the current 100% known.

As far are the historical record: only ardent pro-Disney supporters argue it at this point now going on two years after movies. There’s a few lemons in the fridge and dammit, they will have lemonade!!!

 

[sedati]

 

[sedati]

 

[BrianLo]

Hoping everyone saw this well-resarched piece of hard-hitting news about the behind-the-scenes push to force Filoni and Favreau to ditch The Mandalorian’s Luke Skywalker/Baby Yoda storyline because Luke is such an obvious and enduring symbol of the patriarchy. Sourced from our own @WDW Pro (who is not only a Disiney parks insider, but also a LucasFilm insider as well), it surprisingly blames the internal battle for the soul of Stat Wars on the LucasFilm president, Kathleen Kennedy, who is clearly only just now hearing about the plot of the series.

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His movie credibility went out the window when he chastised us all that Frozen was a huge failure and his vast knowledge of box office figures were infallible. Only to momentarily realize he didn’t even know the difference between global and domestic figures.

I bring this up partially because he was rude and unapologetic, but to state his lens is so tilted on these things that even what info he is receiving is uninterpretable. Good riddance!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

His movie credibility went out the window when he chastised us all that Frozen was a huge failure and his vast knowledge of box office figures were infallible. Only to momentarily realize he didn’t even know the difference between global and domestic figures.

I bring this up partially because he was rude and unapologetic, but to state his lens is so tilted on these things that even what info he is receiving is uninterpretable. Good riddance!

I’ll wait for anyone who masquerades under assumed names...like cloak and dagger...to be 100% accurate before I hold so harsh a Judgement.

We’d be tossing a lot of babies out with the water round here

 

[BrianLo]

I’ll wait for anyone who masquerades under assumed names...like cloak and dagger...to be 100% accurate before I hold so harsh a Judgement.

We’d be tossing a lot of babies out with the water round here

I'm not sure if you are defending him? He also maintained COVID was cooked up in a Chinese lab, but I digress.

I have a lot of tolerance for pseudo insiders until they reveal themselves to strictly be attention seeking (inset synonym for rude of your choice) conspiracy theorists. Then you know you are just reading a tabloid.