Politics Theme Park Reopening Guidelines to be released 10/20/20

This thread contains political discussion related to the original thread topic
D

Deleted member 107043

After some contemplation, I believe the answer is that the folks in Sacramento who write The Guidance don't think this stuff through all the way.

My question wasn't about state Covid policy. It was about Disney's perplexing language describing this new... um... experiment. Buena Vista Street is not in Downtown Disney. You can't blame Sacramento for Disney's incoherence.
 

George Lucas on a Bench

Well-Known Member
My question wasn't about state Covid policy. It was about Disney's perplexing language describing this new... um... experiment. Buena Vista Street is not in Downtown Disney. You can't blame Sacramento for Disney's incoherence.

It is now. It's an extension of Downtown Disney, not a section of the DCA theme park.

Of course, that doesn't explain how Knott's can open up their park for a Food Festival when it's still a theme park.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
My question wasn't about state Covid policy. It was about Disney's perplexing language describing this new... um... experiment. Buena Vista Street is not in Downtown Disney. You can't blame Sacramento for Disney's incoherence.

Oh, I know. And I agree with you.

But what's apparent is that the language Sacramento has published doesn't preclude these theme parks from reopening as shopping/dining complexes with open entry. Apparently it's once they start charging a gate fee to get in and running the Golden Zephyr where it suddenly becomes a "theme park".

I think this is a situation where Sacramento doesn't even know what these theme parks are doing right now. It was already revealed that Dr. Ghaly (state health director) was repeatedly invited to visit theme parks, and he declined. Instead he sent some lower staff to do a short visit two weeks ago. The parks have been closed since March.

Newsom, Ghaly, etc. have no idea what Disneyland is or how it's laid out, they've never been to Knott's Berry Farm, they probably think Universal Studios is still doing the Airport '77 stunt show, etc.

And so Knott's has been doing Fall-O-Ween for the past month. Disneyland is opening Buena Vista Street for the Christmas shopping season. Sea World has been doing a wine and food festival. Etc., etc.

It's baffling to me how these parks are getting away with it. But apparently either no one in Sacramento knows it's happening, or the way they wrote the guidelines was so vague that it has loopholes big enough to fly the Golden Zephyr through. o_O
 
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George Lucas on a Bench

Well-Known Member
Theme parks (Regular Size) may reopen in Yellow Tier (Minimal). None of these parks are in the Yellow Tier, so they shouldn't be open. That includes Buena Vista St, which is in a theme park. Just because you go in through the side door rather than the main gate doesnt make it right. It should not be opening! Shut it down!
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I guess it depends how you define "festival." Do you mean like an outdoor concert? Or like a pop-up fair? Or just outdoor pop-up food carts?

Also, any event -- whether a festival or not -- would have to show they're keeping a cap on attendance such that everyone can maintain 6' distancing.

Starting out small is Disney's best move. If the state moves against them, then they would really have a court case (and not one based on lack of legal knowledge where people think they can sue and win because it feels right). Disney could easily show that what they're doing is smaller than Knott's, and thus the state is being arbitrary. And the one thing that emergency powers can get struck down on, is being arbitrary.

It's pretty obvious Disney will expand this once their foot is in the door.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Theme parks (Regular Size) may reopen in Yellow Tier (Minimal). None of these parks are in the Yellow Tier, so they shouldn't be open. That includes Buena Vista St, which is in a theme park. Just because you go in through the side door rather than the main gate doesnt make it right. It should not be opening! Shut it down!

Running a theme park and being in a theme park are two different things.

Pitching a tent doesn't mean I'm running a circus.

And I'm tired of you demanding Disneyland shut down!!!
 

PostScott

Well-Known Member
Just because you go in through the side door rather than the main gate doesnt make it right. It should not be opening! Shut it down!
George has finally gone mad and joined the Shut it Downers movement. Must've been the walking around harbor almost everyday now huh

Also, has anyone noticed that he changes his profile pic literally every week?
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
OK, I need to be careful, but think what I will post is OK.

Knott's leadership contacted Sacramento about their idea of a food event. They were told that if they don't operate attractions, or offer entertainment, that it wouldn't count as Theme Park operation, and were referred to the restaurant group in Sacramento dealing with the COVID guidelines..

They actually had a team sit down with them (Well, Zoom meeting). Knott's shared its ideas, making sure they didn't do "Theme Park" things.

Many ideas were shot down right away.

Sacramento was very happy with the Health Questions and Temperature checks. All the ways the food was going to be prepared and handled. Mask Requirements, plexiglass, ground markings, tables and chairs spread out and frequently cleaned, etc.

What the main issues was in the entertainment options, which were quickly corrected to Atmosphere. Ans what was Atmosphere? Well, anything involving more than 2 live performers was ruled entertainment and not allowed.

Recorded music, Yes (but please place frequent COVID related announcements, such as keeping your mask on unless sitting down and eating/drinking. Recorded Entertainment on TV/Monitors? Why not, not live and doesn't spread COVID. How about our live performers? Must be on a stage, at least 6 feet, preferably at least 12 feet away from guests/diners. So on a Balcony? Sure... Can they sing? NO. Can they do a scripted act? NO. Can they do Improv? You mean interact with the diners? Yes, OK, that is fine.

One thing, could Knott's charge for parking? Well, since they didn't charge for eating at the Marketplace during normal times, the answer was if they charge, that would be acting like a Theme Park, so Free parking was the way to go

And it went on and on.. The Sacramento folks kept going back to the Dining guidelines, and saw what was allowed at other Dining locations, and followed those rules.

Is it Dining? Well, we are selling Tasting Cards in Advance, and using those sells to make sure we stay below our capacity limit, which was based on the square footage, amount of tables and chairs available and other factors.

Once Sacramento had agreed to things Knott's could Live with, Taste of Calico became a thing.

It ran well, Sacramento was happy, and basically didn't ask for any changes.

Knott's was happy. They did sell out, but those attending were happy.

So back to talking to Sacramento, asking if they open up more of the park, and adding more tables and chairs, what would be the revised capacity be? They got the Answer, and Taste of Knott's happened. Even with the increased capacity, it sold out again. Sacramento had no issues with the second event. (Well, one atmosphere thing was found out of compliance and had to be adjusted in the first weekend.)

So next was the Fall-o-Ween event. The big issue was the Trick or Treating event. Sacramento asked what was involved? Knott's said only a few live performers, all following the distancing and Improv rules , and were going to place mannikins and props in the area, some with animation, that got signed off on. Also handing out candy following COVID rules of Food Handling, and proper distancing, that was OK. Then could they offer it as a separate event. The answer was NO. Included in the Tasting Card? Yes, just like restaurants offer Free Kids Meals, etc, sure. OK, how about adults? That was a question that Sacramento said we need to get back to you. They said that everyone had to enter with a tasting card for capacity issues, but we don't care if you want to charge for the candy. So anyone can walk through the area, but Knott's could charge for the Goodie Bags that let the associates know the person was eligible to get Candy.

Is a Christmas event being planned? Yes, and most of the details have been approved, but Knott's was told NO on a few things. Things many folks would scratch their heads about. But the entire operation has been walking a fine line of operating a ding event, with Food and drink the focus, and not operating as a Theme Park. And as we can see, Sacramento has been happy with the agreed rules to follow.

And SeaWorld basically copied the idea, and Sacramento agreed with it.

Can Disney do it? Well, they might want to push the Atmosphere limits, which would be a problem. As Knott's learned, if you get a NO, rethink the idea and adjust it, then ask again. You might get another No, or hopefully a Yes.

As Downtown Disney, they have to follow the Restaurant, shopping and special shopping mall rules. And Sacramento agreed to using the DCA space as an extension of the mall.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
OK, I need to be careful, but think what I will post is OK.

Knott's leadership contacted Sacramento about their idea of a food event. They were told that if they don't operate attractions, or offer entertainment, that it wouldn't count as Theme Park operation, and were referred to the restaurant group in Sacramento dealing with the COVID guidelines..

They actually had a team sit down with them (Well, Zoom meeting). Knott's shared its ideas, making sure they didn't do "Theme Park" things.

Many ideas were shot down right away.

Sacramento was very happy with the Health Questions and Temperature checks. All the ways the food was going to be prepared and handled. Mask Requirements, plexiglass, ground markings, tables and chairs spread out and frequently cleaned, etc.

What the main issues was in the entertainment options, which were quickly corrected to Atmosphere. Ans what was Atmosphere? Well, anything involving more than 2 live performers was ruled entertainment and not allowed.

Recorded music, Yes (but please place frequent COVID related announcements, such as keeping your mask on unless sitting down and eating/drinking. Recorded Entertainment on TV/Monitors? Why not, not live and doesn't spread COVID. How about our live performers? Must be on a stage, at least 6 feet, preferably at least 12 feet away from guests/diners. So on a Balcony? Sure... Can they sing? NO. Can they do a scripted act? NO. Can they do Improv? You mean interact with the diners? Yes, OK, that is fine.

One thing, could Knott's charge for parking? Well, since they didn't charge for eating at the Marketplace during normal times, the answer was if they charge, that would be acting like a Theme Park, so Free parking was the way to go

And it went on and on.. The Sacramento folks kept going back to the Dining guidelines, and saw what was allowed at other Dining locations, and followed those rules.

Is it Dining? Well, we are selling Tasting Cards in Advance, and using those sells to make sure we stay below our capacity limit, which was based on the square footage, amount of tables and chairs available and other factors.

Once Sacramento had agreed to things Knott's could Live with, Taste of Calico became a thing.

It ran well, Sacramento was happy, and basically didn't ask for any changes.

Knott's was happy. They did sell out, but those attending were happy.

So back to talking to Sacramento, asking if they open up more of the park, and adding more tables and chairs, what would be the revised capacity be? They got the Answer, and Taste of Knott's happened. Even with the increased capacity, it sold out again. Sacramento had no issues with the second event. (Well, one atmosphere thing was found out of compliance and had to be adjusted in the first weekend.)

So next was the Fall-o-Ween event. The big issue was the Trick or Treating event. Sacramento asked what was involved? Knott's said only a few live performers, all following the distancing and Improv rules , and were going to place mannikins and props in the area, some with animation, that got signed off on. Also handing out candy following COVID rules of Food Handling, and proper distancing, that was OK. Then could they offer it as a separate event. The answer was NO. Included in the Tasting Card? Yes, just like restaurants offer Free Kids Meals, etc, sure. OK, how about adults? That was a question that Sacramento said we need to get back to you. They said that everyone had to enter with a tasting card for capacity issues, but we don't care if you want to charge for the candy. So anyone can walk through the area, but Knott's could charge for the Goodie Bags that let the associates know the person was eligible to get Candy.

Is a Christmas event being planned? Yes, and most of the details have been approved, but Knott's was told NO on a few things. Things many folks would scratch their heads about. But the entire operation has been walking a fine line of operating a ding event, with Food and drink the focus, and not operating as a Theme Park. And as we can see, Sacramento has been happy with the agreed rules to follow.

And SeaWorld basically copied the idea, and Sacramento agreed with it.

Can Disney do it? Well, they might want to push the Atmosphere limits, which would be a problem. As Knott's learned, if you get a NO, rethink the idea and adjust it, then ask again. You might get another No, or hopefully a Yes.

As Downtown Disney, they have to follow the Restaurant, shopping and special shopping mall rules. And Sacramento agreed to using the DCA space as an extension of the mall.
What if I eat while on a slow-ride like Mermaid or Mansion? That should be fine, no? Tasting card for a shrimp cocktail or a spooky donut. The MAGICALLY-MOVING DINING TABLES© are 6 feet apart and always face the same direction.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Huh? If it's closed how can people be inside the park shopping and eating?

They are making a legal distinction to indicate that the theme park remains closed. Most likely this is to alleviate any ambiguity from ticket holders/annual passholders about the eligibility of their ticket media and whether they hold valid theme park admission (they don't since the park is still closed and the tickets can't be used for entry).

It also makes a the distinction for those that have been paying attention, that Disney is NOT violating the orders and guidelines from the governors office and reopening their parks without permission. As much as Disney keeps saying they want to reopen and they want changes from the governor, they are still stuck to doing whatever Sacramento recommends. They still have to balance the bad PR of opening an unsafe theme park with the desire to have something to show to shareholders that they are "trying."

As you point out, their effort has been pretty anemic, but that may not be totally by chance.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
After some contemplation, I believe the answer is that the folks in Sacramento who write The Guidance don't think this stuff through all the way.

After how many times it has been explained, I am going to guess here that Sacramento has a better understanding of what needs to be done, than you do.

Just in case you are actually honest in your desire to understand this:

Theme parks being open = tourists from out of state. That's bad.
Expanded Capacity at a shopping center = far fewer out of state tourists. That's good.

Theme parks being open = people staying for upwards of 8 to 10 hours a day. That's bad.
Downtown Disney being open = people staying for 2 to 3 hours. That's good.
Starbucks on Buena Vista Street being open = maybe an extra 30 minutes of waiting. That's fine.

It is, as it has always been, about the number of people and the number of interactions over time. More people with more opportunities to interact is what is being avoided.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
After how many times it has been explained, I am going to guess here that Sacramento has a better understanding of what needs to be done, than you do.

Just in case you are actually honest in your desire to understand this:

Theme parks being open = tourists from out of state. That's bad.
Expanded Capacity at a shopping center = far fewer out of state tourists. That's good.

Theme parks being open = people staying for upwards of 8 to 10 hours a day. That's bad.
Downtown Disney being open = people staying for 2 to 3 hours. That's good.
Starbucks on Buena Vista Street being open = maybe an extra 30 minutes of waiting. That's fine.

It is, as it has always been, about the number of people and the number of interactions over time. More people with more opportunities to interact is what is being avoided.
Disneyland remaining closed. THATS BAD.
 

DavidDL

Well-Known Member
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