Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
Chip Chipperson said:
I understand that there are people who are avoiding WDW because of the mask requirement. I've seen it said here. I have family who has told me that they won't go if they have to wear a mask and they fall into the "this virus isn't a big deal" category, so I'd be perfectly happy to go without them. However, there are also people who won't go if masks are required because they won't feel safe going until the virus isn't a big enough deal to make the company require masks anymore. Eliminating the mask requirements right now won't make those people more likely to go because they can still see the number of cases in FL and throughout the country. Nothing I've seen has indicated to me that anti-maskers make up the "vast Majority" of the population in general or WDW's customer base, so I have no reason to believe that removing the requirement and increasing capacity would lead to the "vase majority" of WDW's customers attending the parks, no matter how popular the ride is that's being offered as incentive for forgoing safety precautions.
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We just don't know which is the larger group, though, and you don't need a "vast majority" of people in order to fill WDW to capacity. It's possible that lessening the restrictions would result in greater attendance, but no one knows this. It's not just "anti-maskers" who won't go to WDW while masks are required - many are just normal people who don't want to vacation there having to wear a mask.
Heppenheimer said:
The federal government, however, can make funding of certain projects conditional.. See the precedent on raising the drinking age in exchange for providing highway funds. I think there may have also been a seatbelt mandate as well, but not sure.
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It can, but the machinery of the federal government does not move at the pace required for a response to this virus. Even at the state level, enforcement of a mask mandate provides serious difficulties. There aren't enough police to respond to every instance where someone fails to wear a mask, and placing the onus on businesses is a problem. Many are too small to hire security, and turning their employees into security officers doesn't work well and could subject them to liability. The laws are not always the best way to motivate people to do what is right. That's why leadership at the federal level is so important.
 
Tom P.

Tom P.

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
How about forget legal and politics and instead just do what’s the right thing ?

It’s coming. Be ready.
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wdwmagic said:
Unfortunately common sense appears to be missing at this most critical time. Let's hope common sense prevails at the polls.
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Are you two actually suggesting that the common sense thing to do is to forget what is and is not legal, as Marni outright said? If so, that is a very scary prospect.

No, you do not ignore the laws when they become inconvenient. No, the government does not gain the power to do something simply because it is "right" or "common sense." If that were the case, then there truly would be no limit to governmental power.

No, even in the time of a pandemic, things still have to be done the right way. Yes, the president should be sending a consistent, clear message that masks are needed. Yes, the president should be putting pressure on governors to implement mask mandates. Yes, federal funding should be used as leverage to get the governors to comply. But, no, the president cannot just issue a federal order mandating American citizens wear masks. That power just does not exist.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Tom P. said:
Are you two actually suggesting that the common sense thing to do is to forget what is and is not legal, as Marni outright said? If so, that is a very scary prospect.

No, you do not ignore the laws when they become inconvenient. No, the government does not gain the power to do something simply because it is "right" or "common sense." If that were the case, then there truly would be no limit to governmental power.

No, even in the time of a pandemic, things still have to be done the right way. Yes, the president should be sending a consistent, clear message that masks are needed. Yes, the president should be putting pressure on governors to implement mask mandates. Yes, federal funding should be used as leverage to get the governors to comply. But, no, the president cannot just issue a federal order mandating American citizens wear masks. That power just does not exist.
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...our British friends are far more optimistic about Americans than I am...you’ll have to forgive them. 😉
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Tom P. said:
Are you two actually suggesting that the common sense thing to do is to forget what is and is not legal, as Marni outright said? If so, that is a very scary prospect.

No, you do not ignore the laws when they become inconvenient. No, the government does not gain the power to do something simply because it is "right" or "common sense." If that were the case, then there truly would be no limit to governmental power.

No, even in the time of a pandemic, things still have to be done the right way. Yes, the president should be sending a consistent, clear message that masks are needed. Yes, the president should be putting pressure on governors to implement mask mandates. Yes, federal funding should be used as leverage to get the governors to comply. But, no, the president cannot just issue a federal order mandating American citizens wear masks. That power just does not exist.
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Not at all. I am suggesting things are done for the survival of the many. If that means new laws or temporary restrictions then so be it.
 
C

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
We just don't know which is the larger group, though, and you don't need a "vast majority" of people in order to fill WDW to capacity. It's possible that lessening the restrictions would result in greater attendance, but no one knows this. It's not just "anti-maskers" who won't go to WDW while masks are required - many are just normal people who don't want to vacation there having to wear a mask.
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The post I initially responded to said that "the vast majority" of people would go to DHS without a mask requirement if they were assured of a RotR boarding group. I acknowledged that many people not going while masks are required are not anti-mask, but that doesn't mean that those same people would suddenly go in the current situation if Disney just decided to abandon its mask policy. Removing that policy doesn't change the spread of the virus (at least not in a good way). And that's all before you get to the fact that people flying to FL will have to wear a mask on the plane, so anyone who doesn't want to vacation while wearing a mask would have to drive if they want to avoid wearing a mask.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
marni1971 said:
Not at all. I am suggesting things are done for the survival of the many. If that means new laws or temporary restrictions then so be it.
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B

Bob Harlem

Well-Known Member
Live with it adapt, and put common sense based on the survival rate (Which is extremely high). Avoid listening to miserable people that want to drag down everyone else to be miserable with them. The amount of people saying they are doing something, while doing another is high here.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Bob Harlem said:
Live with it adapt, and put common sense based on the survival rate (Which is extremely high). Avoid listening to miserable people that want to drag down everyone else to be miserable with them. The amount of people saying they are doing something, while doing another is high here.
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Exactly...the exact OPPOSITE of all that stuff you just said 👍🏻
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Chi84 said:
You're assuming that the people who are going to WDW right now are doing so because the restrictions make them feel safe. There is another argument (not mine) that there are a lot of people who are not terribly worried about the virus and are avoiding WDW right now because of the face mask and social distancing restrictions and limited experiences. These people believe that lifting the restrictions will result in greater, not lesser, attendance. It seems these two sides are talking past each other right now.
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There are 4 groups:
  1. ”Pixie dusted Covid denier“ group who don’t require any safety protocols to want to go to WDW, but will still go today with the restrictions in place.
  2. “Hiding in their basement“ group who won’t go to WDW even with the current safety protocols in place so definitely won’t be back if they are gone.
  3. ”Covid deniers without the pixie dust” group who don‘t have a strong enough desire to go today with the restrictions in place but would return without them.
  4. ”Pixie dusters who also want to feel safe” group who are willing to go today to WDW with the safety protocols but wouldn‘t feel safe to go without them.
The first 2 groups are irrelevant. The safety protocols don‘t impact their decisions. Groups 3 and 4 are what matter. We don’t know for sure which group is larger, however the polls done and posted here all showed that more people are in group 4 than group 3. I know they have been called fake or whatever, but I haven’t seen any evidence the other way other than several people who feel that way themselves. Disney would also have the internal polling to see how guests feel and they for sure haven‘t shown any indication that guests would prefer less safety protocols. I would be more than willing to listen to anyone’s argument that more people would prefer less safety protocols, but so far I haven’t seen any actual support for that other than anecdotal stories.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
rowrbazzle said:
I don't know what this means.

I agree. But the line of the conversation was that a national mask mandate could be implemented by the President. Both the current President and the guy who might take his place seem to believe it can't. That's all I was responding to.
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Yes, a federal mask mandate would be a largely symbolic gesture unless you plan to deploy FBI agents to enforce and/or the national guard. Neither would happen. The state and local governments would ultimately have to be in charge of any enforcement. However, its a powerful statement if it comes down from the top and has a trickle down effect. Take FL as an example, the governor didn’t support a statewide mask mandate and allowed localities to implement but has now made an effort to eliminate those local requirements. There’s a lot of push back against the local and even private business requirements and since the governor made that statement a month ago we’ve seen an uptick in stories on resistance. It would be much easier for Disney to enforce their mask policy if they can point to government mandates and say Trump and his task force are calling for a National mask mandate and this is backed by the governor of FL and the mayor of Orange County. Instead, 2 of those 3 levels of government oppose the Disney policy which makes people more likely to resist. So in a long winded way I think a federal mask mandate is much more powerful as a unifying statement on the situation vs an enforceable law.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
GoofGoof said:
There are 4 groups:
  1. ”Pixie dusted Covid denier“ group who don’t require any safety protocols to want to go to WDW, but will still go today with the restrictions in place.
  2. “Hiding in their basement“ group who won’t go to WDW even with the current safety protocols in place so definitely won’t be back if they are gone.
  3. ”Covid deniers without the pixie dust” group who don‘t have a strong enough desire to go today with the restrictions in place but would return without them.
  4. ”Pixie dusters who also want to feel safe” group who are willing to go today to WDW with the safety protocols but wouldn‘t feel safe to go without them.
The first 2 groups are irrelevant. The safety protocols don‘t impact their decisions. Groups 3 and 4 are what matter. We don’t know for sure which group is larger, however the polls done and posted here all showed that more people are in group 4 than group 3. I know they have been called fake or whatever, but I haven’t seen any evidence the other way other than several people who feel that way themselves. Disney would also have the internal polling to see how guests feel and they for sure haven‘t shown any indication that guests would prefer less safety protocols. I would be more than willing to listen to anyone’s argument that more people would prefer less safety protocols, but so far I haven’t seen any actual support for that other than anecdotal stories.
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I agree with the part that says we don’t know for sure. I don’t think Disney is making its decisions right now based on polls of how guests feel about safety protocols.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
GoofGoof said:
Yes, a federal mask mandate would be a largely symbolic gesture unless you plan to deploy FBI agents to enforce and/or the national guard. Neither would happen. The state and local governments would ultimately have to be in charge of any enforcement. However, its a powerful statement if it comes down from the top and has a trickle down effect. Take FL as an example, the governor didn’t support a statewide mask mandate and allowed localities to implement but has now made an effort to eliminate those local requirements. There’s a lot of push back against the local and even private business requirements and since the governor made that statement a month ago we’ve seen an uptick in stories on resistance. It would be much easier for Disney to enforce their mask policy if they can point to government mandates and say Trump and his task force are calling for a National mask mandate and this is backed by the governor of FL and the mayor of Orange County. Instead, 2 of those 3 levels of government oppose the Disney policy which makes people more likely to resist. So in a long winded way I think a federal mask mandate is much more powerful as a unifying statement on the situation vs an enforceable law.
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I agree 100% with your last sentence. Laws just can’t do as much as people believe they can.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Chi84 said:
I agree with the part that says we don’t know for sure. I don’t think Disney is making its decisions right now based on polls of how guests feel about safety protocols.
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We can agree to disagree. I think it absolutely factors in. The government is not imposing any restrictions in FL right now and they could very easily loosen some restrictions and face no additional legal liability because they would still be going beyond what other similar places are doing and within the requirements laid out by the government. They could have a mask rule but leave in the eating exception to allow people to walk around without masks, they could remove capacity limits or at least increase them more, they could allow more group gatherings now that football stadiums in FL can have 60K+ fans in the stands. I think Disney is doing a fantastic job of setting really good safety protocols and enforcing them and they are getting people to come and feel safe which is not an easy task during a pandemic. Being realistic, if Disney could return to something close to pre-Covid levels by loosening or removing safety protocols I think we would have seen a move in that direction already. Unlike CA they have the green light to do it in FL.
 
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