yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
It appears to be the inverse, if you know what I mean, which makes it even more impressive.
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Beauty and the Beast Tokyo ride through
- Thread starter Phineas
- Start date
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
This is an issue with trackless rides in general. You're almost always in rooms with several other ride vehicles moving around you and it takes you out of the experience a bit. And because the scenes generally have to accommodate several vehicles moving around in the same space, they almost have to be overly large which can make them feel somewhat empty. Rise of the Resistance gets around that by taking place in a setting that is supposed to have gigantic, relatively empty rooms.
I suppose that's a benefit of an omnimover/boat ride -- although there are other vehicles next to you at all times, they're generally out of your field of vision because you're looking at things in front of you or to the side.
dennis-in-ct
Well-Known Member
I can see in the ride-through video that the seating area has a lot of motion. The inner circle pitches and rotates throughout the ride. Controls the guest view point. I would imagine this would make the ride feel much more exciting and perhaps as a rider, the spaces do not feel empty. I wonder.
IndyAdventurer
Member
So obviously this ride is impeccably well-made and themed, and I'm not the kind of person to criticize a good-faith effort. But I think there's two key elements that could really transform this ride in the future if they decide to plus it or build a clone in another park.
The biggest problem with the ride right now is scale. Not the scale of the sets, they're gorgeous and huge and grand in all the right ways. But the scale of the ride vehicles. The issue is that when the vehicles themselves are so large (and there's six of them) it makes even huge rooms with huge sets seem smaller by comparison. It robs the guests of that feeling of grandeur, because the comparison point isn't a single person, it's a massive, 10-person teacup.
The obvious solution is smaller ride vehicles like Pooh's Hunny Hunt (5 person) or Ratatouille (6 people). However once that happens, the issue becomes capacity. Dropping from 10 to 6 passengers means 40% less capacity. For Tokyo, the answer might just be upping the number of vehicles to 8. 8 smaller vehicles could likely fit just as well as 6 larger ones, and even though it'd be more crowded in terms of vehicles, it would solve the scale issue and make everything else seem bigger.
Tokyo's version is probably too set in stone for anything more than that, but for future versions, it could be fixed without adding more vehicles. And the solution is this: Rather than spending 90 seconds in each room, spend 60 seconds in each room and add an extra 1-2 scenes in the middle to keep the ride at a substantial length. That would also help solve the second problem with this ride, which is:
The snow scene and disjointed transition to the mob scene. The snow scene itself is just too dull. It needs more action (for Tokyo, that might just mean some projection mapping, or another animatronic, since there's no room to expand). But half the room is just doors and a basic castle facade, which is not much to look at. It's fine if you're only gonna be in there for 30 seconds, but 90 seconds is TOO LONG to have so little to entertain you besides beautiful music. Then there's the sudden appearance of the mob with no introduction. That's solvable too, but I requires another scene.
My solution for a future version of this ride in another park would be:
1. Reduce the ride vehicles to 5-6 person capacities. Smaller vehicles helps make the whole experience feel bigger and grander.
2. Add something else visually stimulating in the snow scene. Just like anything.
3. Add a transition scene before the mob. Perhaps we leave the snow scene and head into the woods where we come across the mob and hear them singing Kill the Beast. Then we follow them back to the castle. We just need something to ease us into the storming of the castle.
4. Add another storming castle scene. This is where Mystic Manor as a model could really help. Have each of the six vehicles duck into a nook where a different storming moment is happening. Give the riders a chance to break away from the group and have a more intimate experience (and also a different one for each vehicle).
I don't thinks those things would be terribly cost prohibitive. A couple extra scenes would expand the footprint of the show building, but neither scene needs to be too big. And with the smaller vehicles, you could actually reduce the size of some of the rooms like Be Our Guest, without sacrificing them.
The biggest problem with the ride right now is scale. Not the scale of the sets, they're gorgeous and huge and grand in all the right ways. But the scale of the ride vehicles. The issue is that when the vehicles themselves are so large (and there's six of them) it makes even huge rooms with huge sets seem smaller by comparison. It robs the guests of that feeling of grandeur, because the comparison point isn't a single person, it's a massive, 10-person teacup.
The obvious solution is smaller ride vehicles like Pooh's Hunny Hunt (5 person) or Ratatouille (6 people). However once that happens, the issue becomes capacity. Dropping from 10 to 6 passengers means 40% less capacity. For Tokyo, the answer might just be upping the number of vehicles to 8. 8 smaller vehicles could likely fit just as well as 6 larger ones, and even though it'd be more crowded in terms of vehicles, it would solve the scale issue and make everything else seem bigger.
Tokyo's version is probably too set in stone for anything more than that, but for future versions, it could be fixed without adding more vehicles. And the solution is this: Rather than spending 90 seconds in each room, spend 60 seconds in each room and add an extra 1-2 scenes in the middle to keep the ride at a substantial length. That would also help solve the second problem with this ride, which is:
The snow scene and disjointed transition to the mob scene. The snow scene itself is just too dull. It needs more action (for Tokyo, that might just mean some projection mapping, or another animatronic, since there's no room to expand). But half the room is just doors and a basic castle facade, which is not much to look at. It's fine if you're only gonna be in there for 30 seconds, but 90 seconds is TOO LONG to have so little to entertain you besides beautiful music. Then there's the sudden appearance of the mob with no introduction. That's solvable too, but I requires another scene.
My solution for a future version of this ride in another park would be:
1. Reduce the ride vehicles to 5-6 person capacities. Smaller vehicles helps make the whole experience feel bigger and grander.
2. Add something else visually stimulating in the snow scene. Just like anything.
3. Add a transition scene before the mob. Perhaps we leave the snow scene and head into the woods where we come across the mob and hear them singing Kill the Beast. Then we follow them back to the castle. We just need something to ease us into the storming of the castle.
4. Add another storming castle scene. This is where Mystic Manor as a model could really help. Have each of the six vehicles duck into a nook where a different storming moment is happening. Give the riders a chance to break away from the group and have a more intimate experience (and also a different one for each vehicle).
I don't thinks those things would be terribly cost prohibitive. A couple extra scenes would expand the footprint of the show building, but neither scene needs to be too big. And with the smaller vehicles, you could actually reduce the size of some of the rooms like Be Our Guest, without sacrificing them.
ChiGuy4Now
Member
I have not watched any ride videos, so I can experience it in person first whenever I get back over to TDR. However, could the Something There scene be salvaged by bisecting the room with something structural, moving the current animatronics to one side and having the first half of the room be rebuilt as the library scene? The RVs could then move through this side of the room to the far end, then move into the outdoor scene and then exit the room in a more linear, traditional dark room manner?
Maybe less "dancing" in this room would make that element less redundant since it seems to happen in all the major show scenes.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
Okay, I just saw a ride-through video taken during BatB's official opening day, posted on the Site That Shall Not Be Named. And I encourage everyone here to go take a look at it.
Again, oh my god. The detail, the sumptuousness, of just the QUEUE, inside and out. That courtyard! The fogs and waterfalls! The knights in the armory hallway whisper to you as you pass by. The dog/ottoman wags its tassel. There are AAs of Lumiere and Cogsworth in the indoor queue, chatting to each other. The decor - arches, tapestries, paintings, stained glass, holy crap. You know how I judge a ride's effectiveness? If it transports you to another world. That's one reason why I love WDW's Pirates ride. It does the job. This BatB ride in Tokyo...is on another level altogether.
The ride-through shows a ride experience that is lush and amazing and NO it does not drag. It's enchanting and magical and immersive in a way NO recent attraction in WDW can match (Tower and Mansion excepted, but those are not new attractions). It makes Mermaid and Frozen and Mine Train look too pathetic for words. Fie on the nitpicking around here. BatB is outstanding, displaying a quality that's worthy of Walt's standards and vision.
PLEASE, Iger, you pathetic hack, sell WDW to OLC. God knows you could use the money after your stupid acquisitions that have put the company in danger. (Why the hell did you buy 20th Century Fox, for instance? What was the appeal? Shirley Temple?)
BatB is a triumph. I can't wait to ride it in person. I don't care what it costs. I've got to experience this thing. Bucket List #1.
Again, oh my god. The detail, the sumptuousness, of just the QUEUE, inside and out. That courtyard! The fogs and waterfalls! The knights in the armory hallway whisper to you as you pass by. The dog/ottoman wags its tassel. There are AAs of Lumiere and Cogsworth in the indoor queue, chatting to each other. The decor - arches, tapestries, paintings, stained glass, holy crap. You know how I judge a ride's effectiveness? If it transports you to another world. That's one reason why I love WDW's Pirates ride. It does the job. This BatB ride in Tokyo...is on another level altogether.
The ride-through shows a ride experience that is lush and amazing and NO it does not drag. It's enchanting and magical and immersive in a way NO recent attraction in WDW can match (Tower and Mansion excepted, but those are not new attractions). It makes Mermaid and Frozen and Mine Train look too pathetic for words. Fie on the nitpicking around here. BatB is outstanding, displaying a quality that's worthy of Walt's standards and vision.
PLEASE, Iger, you pathetic hack, sell WDW to OLC. God knows you could use the money after your stupid acquisitions that have put the company in danger. (Why the hell did you buy 20th Century Fox, for instance? What was the appeal? Shirley Temple?)
BatB is a triumph. I can't wait to ride it in person. I don't care what it costs. I've got to experience this thing. Bucket List #1.
Magic Feather
Well-Known Member
I think I’ve realized one of my biggest issues with detailed queues, and especially the one for B&tB.
Detailed queues are great when they don’t take place where the ride should.
For instance, on Rise of the Resistance, you don’t want to be riding through Resistance Tunnels, but it makes for a great queue. Flight of Passage acts as a nature trail by foot, which is followed by a nature excursion in the air. They don’t tread the same ground. You don’t want to ride around a News Office in Spider-Man, but you still want to see it.
Beauty and the Beast fails at this because it has you walk through environments/scenes that you really should be riding through. The ominous castle corridors, Belle’s first encounter with the Beast, etc. are all great ride environments that feel almost wasted in the queue.
Detailed queues are great when they don’t take place where the ride should.
For instance, on Rise of the Resistance, you don’t want to be riding through Resistance Tunnels, but it makes for a great queue. Flight of Passage acts as a nature trail by foot, which is followed by a nature excursion in the air. They don’t tread the same ground. You don’t want to ride around a News Office in Spider-Man, but you still want to see it.
Beauty and the Beast fails at this because it has you walk through environments/scenes that you really should be riding through. The ominous castle corridors, Belle’s first encounter with the Beast, etc. are all great ride environments that feel almost wasted in the queue.
IndyAdventurer
Member
So I get what you're saying, but I think they're trying to do something different with this ride--something we've never seen before. This is basically a musical revue ride, driven by story elements. It's not a classic "book report" ride and it's not trying to be. It's trying to showcase the major musical moments in the show that take place within the castle setting. I think the logic in making the intro prologue, instead of the ride, is that in terms of the castle portion of the story, the music doesn't really start until Be Our Guest. Everything before that is good story and set up, but it's music-less.
If this were going for book report, I'd agree that putting the castle set up in the queue was a huge mistake. But I think in what they were going for, it makes a certain kind of sense.
Whether or not that is the kind of ride people want, is another question. They're trying something new and different here and that means they may succeed in uncovering an experience people didn't know they needed--or they may find out that people don't really want this and would rather have either a book report or a totally unique story.
I don't quite know the answer to that question, but I think TDL guests will help to answer it in the coming year.
ThemeParkTraveller
Well-Known Member
Even if the ride had gone for a more traditional approach, I think having most of the queue in the castle was a good idea. Setting wise, the only thing outside the castle is the forest and that would make for a pretty boring queue. Aside from the preshow in the foyer, most of the rooms guests explore are not pivotal to the story and have made only very minor impressions in the film itself.
You could still have a complete retelling of the story by starting the ride in the dungeon with Maurice or by skipping the preshow and having that as the first scene, followed by fleshing out the current attraction with all the missing iconic moments from the film (saving Belle from wolves, the library, Human Again, the full mob/Gaston battle, etc). If they had done all that, this would have ended up being one of the greatest dark rides ever built instead of having the mixed reaction it currently has (at least among fans here, not sure how it's being received in Japan).
You could still have a complete retelling of the story by starting the ride in the dungeon with Maurice or by skipping the preshow and having that as the first scene, followed by fleshing out the current attraction with all the missing iconic moments from the film (saving Belle from wolves, the library, Human Again, the full mob/Gaston battle, etc). If they had done all that, this would have ended up being one of the greatest dark rides ever built instead of having the mixed reaction it currently has (at least among fans here, not sure how it's being received in Japan).
Magic Feather
Well-Known Member
I agree that it's incredibly different, which is why I think it's not landing for some people. This attraction is better equated with Carousel of Progress than Rise of the Resistance. I personally just think it would play slightly better if they didn't give us a taste of traditional dark ride between Something there and the Transformation. Give us a mob showroom instead that follows the same beats as the other rooms.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
Honestly, it looks nice, but the ride just seems so boring. The finale is lacklustre and long. The best moments are Be our Guest and the Transformation.
choco choco
Well-Known Member
Why? The dialogue is exactly what it is from the movie. The song lyrics in English will be exactly what it was in the movie.
flynnibus
Premium Member
because the sound and your subconscious reactions are part of attraction design
if your brain isn’t processing what is happening you are missing large portions
Little Green Men
Well-Known Member
I’d take Radiator Springs Racers, Flight Of Passage, or Rise of Resistance a billion times over this
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
And all those rides are super fun, and build as they go. They surprise and delight.
pwnbeaver
Well-Known Member
I agree with the takes about the impressive tech, as well as the takes about the poor pacing and show design. Based on the video, this ride is kind of like a beautifully shot movie with a bad script. I don't think experiencing it in person would be much different with how huge those rooms are and how massive the ride vehicles are. I'll be inside of it one day and maybe I'll change my mind about that.
This ride is clinical. I really like the comparison earlier in the thread to a hotel. It really does feel kind of soulless and flat. I see the technology here, but I don't see the art. These modern book report rides really do just seem like focus-tested interpretations of the films put in to please anyone with a passing relationship with the film rather than an attempt at creating a unique experience using the film as a spine.
I am interested in the idea presented here. Jim Hill described it on Disney Dish this week as "a ride that tries to give the experience of a show." Since Hill is giving that take, it is most likely the official in-house interpretation of the ride that they fed to him. That is a fascinating idea and also gives a bit of context to the massive rooms and very stage-like presentation of the AAs. I think this first attempt is a misfire but this is a good idea that is worth exploring in the future. The newer movies like Frozen and Moana would probably be great IPs to use for a "ride as a show" concept and I think FEA actually gets this right with the Let it Go scene, the only scene in that ride that actually hit me emotionally since it effectively built the climax of the song and the presentation of the tech around the motion of the vehicle. I look forward to seeing what they do with this in the TDS expansion.
For those asking about what is being said in the preshow and wanting English: based on my limited knowledge of Japanese, they are just speaking lines from the movie almost verbatim.
I have been on Shanghai Pirates and the Jack Sparrow effect looks way better on video than in person. Still a cool effect, but you can clearly see the Sparrow animatronic behind the skeleton when you are in the boat.
The Beast transformation is the coolest effect on this ride and I hope it doesn't have the same issue where something is invisible on film but kind of obvious in person.
This ride is clinical. I really like the comparison earlier in the thread to a hotel. It really does feel kind of soulless and flat. I see the technology here, but I don't see the art. These modern book report rides really do just seem like focus-tested interpretations of the films put in to please anyone with a passing relationship with the film rather than an attempt at creating a unique experience using the film as a spine.
I am interested in the idea presented here. Jim Hill described it on Disney Dish this week as "a ride that tries to give the experience of a show." Since Hill is giving that take, it is most likely the official in-house interpretation of the ride that they fed to him. That is a fascinating idea and also gives a bit of context to the massive rooms and very stage-like presentation of the AAs. I think this first attempt is a misfire but this is a good idea that is worth exploring in the future. The newer movies like Frozen and Moana would probably be great IPs to use for a "ride as a show" concept and I think FEA actually gets this right with the Let it Go scene, the only scene in that ride that actually hit me emotionally since it effectively built the climax of the song and the presentation of the tech around the motion of the vehicle. I look forward to seeing what they do with this in the TDS expansion.
For those asking about what is being said in the preshow and wanting English: based on my limited knowledge of Japanese, they are just speaking lines from the movie almost verbatim.
I have been on Shanghai Pirates and the Jack Sparrow effect looks way better on video than in person. Still a cool effect, but you can clearly see the Sparrow animatronic behind the skeleton when you are in the boat.
The Beast transformation is the coolest effect on this ride and I hope it doesn't have the same issue where something is invisible on film but kind of obvious in person.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
HongKongFooy
Well-Known Member
Looks like you said both very little and quite a lot simultaneously; nicely done.
Saying you'd take the 3 top Disney rides in the US over Belle says close to nothing. The way you dismissed a bona-fide super headlining attraction says quite a lot.