On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[Phil12]

If Roy was the business brains and Walt was the creative, then how did Walt figure out how to raid the coffers of WDP without Roy catching on? Also, where does Retlaw fit into all this?

Oh, Roy did catch on. Back in 1953 Walt was sued by a shareholder for diverting funds from the studio to WED. The case was settled in 1955 rather than go to trial. And Roy always suspected that Walt would put his hand in the cookie jar again. But Walt was Roy's little brother and Roy let Walt do most anything.

But what Roy feared was another shareholder lawsuit. And if such a lawsuit went to trial, it would bring the entire company down. To avoid that, Roy got a group of lawyers to perform a full accounting to determine the extent of Walt's diversion of funds. It was during this period (about 1963 into 1964) that Walt and Roy stopped speaking to one another. You might want to read about the peace pipe: https://www.dizavenue.com/2017/02/the-time-walt-disney-passed-peace-pipe.html

The entire WED setup was chock full of conflicts of interest and Walt was involved in self-dealing. WED was the contractor that built Disneyland! Walt personally owned various attractions in the park including the train, monorail and the Tiki Room. He hired his own employees for those attractions. They were not part of the regular Disneyland CM's.

In early 1965 the studio bought WED along with the name. What was left of Walt's private holdings needed a new name: RETLAW. The assets of RETLAW went to Walt's family (such as the monorail, the steam train and the use of Walt's name and likeness) Disneyland bought the monorail in 1982 and other of Walt's privately owned assets.

But make no mistake. Walt didn't want to sell WED or the other property. He was forced to do so by Roy to avoid a very costly and embarrassing shareholder lawsuit. This was Roy's way of heading a lawsuit off at the pass to make sure that Walt's diversion of shareholder funds was settled internally without destruction of the company.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

This is what I paid for the first ticket I bought!

View attachment 489662

They really should bring back the Junior level tickets for the US parks. Tokyo still has it.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Real talk:

People on this board don’t need business classes. They need to see the real life experience of running theme parks with their own eyes. Things are pretty screwed up at a theme park in the best of times, much less poor times.

Probably doesn’t help that most recent college grads that were coming to the industry only knew the last 10 years or so of the business. The “good times”.

You got one camp of industry vets saying, “there’s an asteroid coming, you need to run.”

The other camp is all like “let’s measure the asteroid. Will the impact really be as bad as the doomsayers claim? Perhaps this asteroid is made up of an element that would not explode as hard when hits the ground. Perhaps —“

Ooof

Must admit that I struggle to see what Disney could have done to prepare better for this pandemic. Build less? Hire less people? Sell the parks?

It could be argued that they should have kept them closed longer, but are the preparations they've put in place for opening them really so incompetent? What do you think they should have done?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Real talk:

People on this board don’t need business classes. They need to see the real life experience of running theme parks with their own eyes. Things are pretty screwed up at a theme park in the best of times, much less poor times.

Probably doesn’t help that most recent college grads that were coming to the industry only knew the last 10 years or so of the business. The “good times”.

You got one camp of industry vets saying, “there’s an asteroid coming, you need to run.”

The other camp is all like “let’s measure the asteroid. Will the impact really be as bad as the doomsayers claim? Perhaps this asteroid is made up of an element that would not explode as hard when hits the ground. Perhaps —“

Ooof

...good description. Very well done.

The Fed dumping trillions helps, a little.

Only to account for 92-97% of the “stock rebound”...minor details staffed out to an unpaid intern at a branch office...I’m sure

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I still remember ticket books and purchasing additional books after we got in the park.

My first single day ticker I purchased for myself was Epcot in 1986; I believe I paid $14.95. later, in the mid ‘90’s, my wife and I paid around $27 for single day single park tickets. First trip with our kids in around 2003 we purchased 4 day park hopper passes for $99. First full on Florida residents AP’s we purchased were $279....
ah, the good old days...

Just to clear it up...the post I originally quoted seems to be a cute way of saying “times changed” by bringing back when they had less overall crowding at times. So I gave prices from the “early to mid 2000’s”

I’m just saying the prices have gone up 300%.
That’s seems “normal” to me.

 

[tirian]

Real talk:

People on this board don’t need business classes. They need to see the real life experience of running theme parks with their own eyes. Things are pretty screwed up at a theme park in the best of times, much less poor times.

Probably doesn’t help that most recent college grads that were coming to the industry only knew the last 10 years or so of the business. The “good times”.

You got one camp of industry vets saying, “there’s an asteroid coming, you need to run.”

The other camp is all like “let’s measure the asteroid. Will the impact really be as bad as the doomsayers claim? Perhaps this asteroid is made up of an element that would not explode as hard when hits the ground. Perhaps —“

Ooof

Quoted for truth.

 

[tirian]

Just to clear it up...the post I originally quoted seems to be a cute way of saying “times changed” by bringing back when they had less overall crowding at times. So I gave prices from the “early to mid 2000’s”

I’m just saying the prices have gone up 300%.
That’s seems “normal” to me.

Ticket prices have risen beyond inflation, but hotels are now outrageous—not to mention they’d cut monorail hours and bus schedules, and started charging for daily parking, long before Covid.

Remember when every room at the deluxe resorts received nightly turndown service? And when they delivered packages directly to your room everywhere except the value resorts? Now you’re lucky to get chocolate on your pillow in a Club room at the Grand Flo, but you’re paying much more than even 10 years ago. Those clubs have much shorter hours and much less food too.

Anyone who thinks Disney resorts are worth half of their rack rates needs to travel more.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Quoted for truth.

Again, though, what should Disney have done to prepare for the current global pandemic? What advice from experienced hands were they ignoring or not getting?

I don't mean to be argumentative, I just get a little frustrated when there are these assertions of a common sense that's never articulated. As best as I can tell, the current situation wouldn't be indicating to Disney executives that they should have been building more attractions and keeping prices reasonable. It would be making them think that perhaps Steve Jobs had a point that they should get rid of the parks. The only point against that is that they seem to have used the profits to diversify the company enough that a catastrophic scenario in which the parks have to close entirely doesn't wipe out their profits.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ticket prices have risen beyond inflation, but hotels are now outrageous—not to mention they’d cut monorail hours and bus schedules, and started charging for daily parking, long before Covid.

Remember when every room at the deluxe resorts received nightly turndown service? And when they delivered packages directly to your room everywhere except the value resorts? Now you’re lucky to get chocolate on your pillow in a Club room at the Grand Flo, but you’re paying much more than even 10 years ago. Those clubs have much shorter hours and much less food too.

Anyone who thinks Disney resorts are worth half of their rack rates needs to travel more.

The rate of climb since 2000 is actually much higher for tickets and food than hotels. Hotels - thoug ridiculous - were closer to the “ceiling” - adjusted for inflation from that period. If that makes sense.

A room at the poly that was $289-$400 then Is like $400-550 now.

What a steal

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Quoted for truth.

Quantum field theory

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Btw I got a little gossip on the French restaurant at Epcot, tho it’s not earth shattering (also rumor warning. Grab your blankets because a *rumor* is being discussed).

Apparently WDW doesn’t care if the operating participant in France bails. From Disney’s POV, they can simply take Chefs back and turn it into a Ratatouille restaurant. I did ask if the 3rd party wanted it on running such a proposed restaurant. The answer, for now, is no. There is not enough demand for any Disney IP or the Chefs brand to run the restaurant. The Epcot hour cuts sealed that.

As far as the restaurant upstairs goes....

That one may be closed up for a while.

Cue the online fans:

"I don't go to EPCOT to eat at a French restaurant, I want a DISNEY restaurant."

"Ratatouille takes place in France so it fits"

"One less person trying to get a reservation"

"I go to Disney World 4 times a year, and I had no idea France had a restaurant"

"3 Dining Plan credits for the Ratatouille dinner is a bargain"

 

[MonorailCoral]

Must admit that I struggle to see what Disney could have done to prepare better for this pandemic. Build less? Hire less people? Sell the parks?

It could be argued that they should have kept them closed longer, but are the preparations they've put in place for opening them really so incompetent? What do you think they should have done?

Again, though, what should Disney have done to prepare for the current global pandemic? What advice from experienced hands were they ignoring or not getting?

I don't mean to be argumentative, I just get a little frustrated when there are these assertions of a common sense that's never articulated. As best as I can tell, the current situation wouldn't be indicating to Disney executives that they should have been building more attractions and keeping prices reasonable. It would be making them think that perhaps Steve Jobs had a point that they should get rid of the parks. The only point against that is that they seem to have used the profits to diversify the company enough that a catastrophic scenario in which the parks have to close entirely doesn't wipe out their profits.

Customers in my field tell me all the time "we should have done [insert hindsight and Monday-morning quarterbacking with regard to Coronavirus]".

I have actually told a few "the last time a pandemic affected the world on this level, there's a 99% chance your new (to you) car came only in one color...black."

 

[MonorailCoral]

Again, though, what should Disney have done to prepare for the current global pandemic? What advice from experienced hands were they ignoring or not getting?

Actually, on second thought, as a certified Weekend (Internet) Warrior, I will attempt to answer this:

Per Wikipedia, during the time of the 1918 Flu, Walt had driven ambulances for the Red Cross in France after the Armistice...So he should have known how to prepare his company (which he did not create for another 5 years) on the proper techniques of handling another worldwide pandemic after the company has become a massive worldwide conglomerate a century later.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Again, though, what should Disney have done to prepare for the current global pandemic? What advice from experienced hands were they ignoring or not getting?

I don't mean to be argumentative, I just get a little frustrated when there are these assertions of a common sense that's never articulated. As best as I can tell, the current situation wouldn't be indicating to Disney executives that they should have been building more attractions and keeping prices reasonable. It would be making them think that perhaps Steve Jobs had a point that they should get rid of the parks. The only point against that is that they seem to have used the profits to diversify the company enough that a catastrophic scenario in which the parks have to close entirely doesn't wipe out their profits.

Disney spent billions to (rather successfully) drive down expectations of attractions per guest per hour well below industry standards, intentionally increasing crowding and making it an expectation. They cut away at the business to generate “growth”. The parks were designed for less attendance with more offerings but those numbers just don’t work anymore. It’s not that they didn’t prepare for a pandemic, it’s that they’ve remained committed to Pressler’s business model that is more susceptible to the volatilities of the industry.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney spent billions to (rather successfully) drive down expectations of attractions per guest per hour well below industry standards, intentionally increasing crowding land making it an expectation. They cut away at the business to generate “growth”. The parks were designed for less attendance with more offerings but those numbers just don’t work anymore. It’s not that they didn’t prepare for a pandemic, it’s that they’ve remained committed to Pressler’s business model that is more susceptible to the volatilities of the industry.

...touchdown

 

[Jrb1979]

Disney spent billions to (rather successfully) drive down expectations of attractions per guest per hour well below industry standards, intentionally increasing crowding and making it an expectation. They cut away at the business to generate “growth”. The parks were designed for less attendance with more offerings but those numbers just don’t work anymore. It’s not that they didn’t prepare for a pandemic, it’s that they’ve remained committed to Pressler’s business model that is more susceptible to the volatilities of the industry.

Its almost like they should take a note from the regional parks that many Disney fans hate on. When Cedar Point adds new attractions they look for rides that have high hourly capacity. As well as adding in a lot more family rides. Its nice having Matt Ouimet as the CEO of Cedar Fair. If only Disney had some one like that. Oh wait he did work from them once. Instead they went with Lex Luthor to lead the charge.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Disney spent billions to (rather successfully) drive down expectations of attractions per guest per hour well below industry standards, intentionally increasing crowding and making it an expectation. They cut away at the business to generate “growth”. The parks were designed for less attendance with more offerings but those numbers just don’t work anymore. It’s not that they didn’t prepare for a pandemic, it’s that they’ve remained committed to Pressler’s business model that is more susceptible to the volatilities of the industry.

Is that a Disney problem or a problem with the entire economic system over roughly the past 40 years, though?

As a customer, I don't like much of what has been happening with the parks including the increased crowding and greater difficulty to experience all the attractions. However, in the context of this discussion, I find it hard to see how this has left them in a worse position than had they not pursued a growth-driven strategy. To a significant degree this is because Disney is a publicly-traded company and the entire economic system has been built on endless growth. In that environment, the only real possibility I can imagine in which the current situation would have had less of an impact on Disney is if the parks were either more marginal to the company's overall operations or had been sold off.

 

[Jrb1979]

Is that a Disney problem or a problem with the entire economic system over roughly the past 40 years, though?

As a customer, I don't like much of what has been happening with the parks including the increased crowding and greater difficulty to experience all the attractions. However, in the context of this discussion, I find it hard to see how this has left them in a worse position than had they not pursued a growth-driven strategy. To a significant degree this is because Disney is a publicly-traded company and the entire economic system has been built on endless growth. In that environment, the only real possibility I can imagine in which the current situation would have had less of an impact on Disney is if the parks were either more marginal to the company or had been sold off.

Cedar Fair parks are publicly traded too and they have done much better in terms of how they treat their guests.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Oh, Roy did catch on. Back in 1953 Walt was sued by a shareholder for diverting funds from the studio to WED. The case was settled in 1955 rather than go to trial. And Roy always suspected that Walt would put his hand in the cookie jar again. But Walt was Roy's little brother and Roy let Walt do most anything.

But what Roy feared was another shareholder lawsuit. And if such a lawsuit went to trial, it would bring the entire company down. To avoid that, Roy got a group of lawyers to perform a full accounting to determine the extent of Walt's diversion of funds. It was during this period (about 1963 into 1964) that Walt and Roy stopped speaking to one another. You might want to read about the peace pipe: https://www.dizavenue.com/2017/02/the-time-walt-disney-passed-peace-pipe.html

The entire WED setup was chock full of conflicts of interest and Walt was involved in self-dealing. WED was the contractor that built Disneyland! Walt personally owned various attractions in the park including the train, monorail and the Tiki Room. He hired his own employees for those attractions. They were not part of the regular Disneyland CM's.

In early 1965 the studio bought WED along with the name. What was left of Walt's private holdings needed a new name: RETLAW. The assets of RETLAW went to Walt's family (such as the monorail, the steam train and the use of Walt's name and likeness) Disneyland bought the monorail in 1982 and other of Walt's privately owned assets.

But make no mistake. Walt didn't want to sell WED or the other property. He was forced to do so by Roy to avoid a very costly and embarrassing shareholder lawsuit. This was Roy's way of heading a lawsuit off at the pass to make sure that Walt's diversion of shareholder funds was settled internally without destruction of the company.

What was in the peace pipe??

 

[MonorailCoral]

What was in the peace pipe??

Based on the timing, a spoonful of sugar.