Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

[Old Mouseketeer]

There’s a phenomenon in play here. When you make a bunch of nonsensical, stupid, backwards rules, people wind up rebelling against all the rules. You want to close beaches? That’s dumb. You want to tell people they can’t have funerals for loved ones? That’s dumb. You want to say it’s okay to buy a t-shirt at Walmart but not at the boutique in town. That’s dumb. You want us to wear masks when we are indoors in close proximity, not dumb, but too late, you already are considered dumb.

The rules are simple according to established public health practice. But they have been twisted and watered down for political purpose. Closing beaches is not dumb. Banning in-person funerals and church services isn't dumb. Buying a t-shirt at Wal-Mart, which is open because they sell groceries, isn't dumb. Not to anyone who is willing to consider the facts.

The problem is that countries that followed the basics--limit leaving home, social distance, wear masks, test and contact trace, have done well. Sweden tried to do lockdown light and didn't do so well. The US failed to have a coherent, science-based national response. Individual state governors politicized their response. The virus know no politics or ideology. We still don't have a national effort to test and contact trace. People will die. The US will continue to place at the top of infections and deaths among our peer Western developed nations.

It's not rocket science. It's sound Public Health Policy, developed over the past century (since the Spanish Flu pandemic). They had anti-mask protests then, too. They were wrong then, and they're wrong now. They had a second and third wave then, and we're probably going to again (the rest of the developed world, not so much).

It's only dumb if you're not willing (or able) to consider the facts. A higher percentage of people are getting sick and dying in the US, and they didn't have to. Other countries were able to formulate a coherent, science-based response. We didn't. THAT'S what's dumb!

 

[ThatMouse]

The attitude of the surgeon general, florida task force, the governor, and orange county is let Disney (and Universal) do what they want regardless of health and safety. Federal seems uninterested in getting involved. I keep seeing in the news that Florida is reversing course and that's not true at all. Florida is still full steam ahead, still on Phase 2, state workers are going back to work filling the offices even the ones who have been working from home the last 3 months. Department of education is planning to send all kids back to school.

To illustrate Florida's plan, Floridians got 3 weird emails today (July 2) from the surgeon general on behalf of the governor. Real sciencey people with degrees and everything.

1. Old people (65+) stay home.
2. Young people avoid closed spaces & crowds (except for Disney World?), and wear a mask
3. Visit a health website


Ref:

FL Surgeon General (2/3): should avoid crowds & minimize contact outside the home. For the rest of us, protect the vulnerable &
FL Surgeon General (3/3): Avoid the “3 Cs” Closed Spaces, Crowded Places & Close-Contact Settings & wear a mask. More - FloridaHealth.gov

 

[DrAlice]

I haven't kept up with their rules enough to know. I understand they had low enough mask compliance that the governor had to mandate it last week.

Some highlights from my area of California:
* For weeks, high school sports teams have been having "under the radar" practice at the local park with their coaches; no social distancing or masks
* Home Depot today: ~25% have on a mask
* Grocery stores before mask mandate: ~25% wearing masks; now almost everyone has a mask
* local hospital allergy shot clinic: 50% wearing a mask (before the mandate - haven't been back since); dude that was coughing uncontrollably was NOT

In my experience, it has been really random. There are clearly people that are wearing masks (and have since the beginning) and their are those that just refuse to do so and buck the system. The mandate helped, but the most stubborn of the population can't be convinced.

Remember, California is a big state. This is just my area. YMMV.

 

[chrisvee]

There’s a phenomenon in play here. When you make a bunch of nonsensical, stupid, backwards rules, people wind up rebelling against all the rules. You want to close beaches? That’s dumb. You want to tell people they can’t have funerals for loved ones? That’s dumb. You want to say it’s okay to buy a t-shirt at Walmart but not at the boutique in town. That’s dumb. You want us to wear masks when we are indoors in close proximity, not dumb, but too late, you already are considered dumb.

I don’t think any of those rules were dumb.

Knowledge about the virus is increasing over time, testing is increasing, tracking is increasing which has allowed refinement of the rules.

Indoor funerals are known spreader events. We’ve been wearing masks in PA since March.

Maybe people don’t understand science. Or empathy.

 

[Marianne75]

* Grocery stores before mask mandate: ~25% wearing masks; now almost everyone has a mask
* local hospital allergy shot clinic: 50% wearing a mask (before the mandate - haven't been back since); dude that was coughing uncontrollably was NOT

I'm fascinated by all the differences between how states are handling this. Another Biology degree holder here so I have this odd objectivism living through something we studied theoretically. I was shocked at the 50% mask wearing in a hospital clinic because that just wouldn't happen here (far western Chicago suburbs). We've unfortunately gone to many different doctors/hospitals lately, and the procedure is always the same - mask required to go inside, stopped at the entrance to the building where you are given a new mask, temperature taken, and Covid screening questions answered. Stores are pretty much 100% 'mask compliant'. Masks are mandated everywhere indoors though and people have accepted it if they want to shop. This is also one of the reasons why our percent positive is down to 2.6% from a high of 16%. It blows my mind Florida is opening everything up when they are where we were when everything shut down.

Today Chicago joined other states in requiring 14 day self quarantine if you're traveling from multiple states, including Florida. I've been waiting for Pritzker to say the same for all of Illinois for a few days now. While you can't enforce a 14 day quarantine, people's employers can say don't come back to work for 14 days after you get back from your trip. Most people can't take 3 weeks off work for a vacation.

 

[GladToBeHear]

I thought we were supposed to avoid political discussion in this thread. If that's not the case, can this one be moved?

 

[Turtlekrawl]

The new dominant strain of Covid appears to be significantly more infectious than the original strain that was dominant in Europe. Not to excuse the human behaviors that have worsened this spread, but that may part of the reason why cases are skyrocketing - not just in the USA, but also South America, Middle East, and South Asia.

But...Fingers crossed that this new strain, while more infectious, is less severe. This is yet to be determined, but seems very possible. Might help explain why death rates are lower than they were in Europe in March/April.

If we indeed have a less deadly virus circulating, I am more supportive of the idea of reopening. But too soon to tell if this will pan out. If this new strain is more infectious and equally severe, this will not go well.

 

[Jrb1979]

Kennywood, Sandcastle Postponing Reopenings Amid Voluntary Stay-At-Home Protocol In Allegheny County

Kennywood and Sandcastle are postponing their reopenings.

pittsburgh.cbslocal.com

At least one park is doing the right thing. I just hope they survive not opening. I visited them last summer and loved the park.

 

[MrHappy]

The new dominant strain of Covid appears to be significantly more infectious than the original strain that was dominant in Europe. Not to excuse the human behaviors that have worsened this spread, but that may part of the reason why cases are skyrocketing - not just in the USA, but also South America, Middle East, and South Asia.

But...Fingers crossed that this new strain, while more infectious, is less severe. This is yet to be determined, but seems very possible. Might help explain why death rates are lower than they were in Europe in March/April.

If we indeed have a less deadly virus circulating, I am more supportive of the idea of reopening. But too soon to tell if this will pan out. If this new strain is more infectious and equally severe, this will not go well.

I haven’t read anywhere creditable that there is a new strain. Where did you get this info from?

 

[TP2000]

Some highlights from my area of California:
* For weeks, high school sports teams have been having "under the radar" practice at the local park with their coaches; no social distancing or masks
* Home Depot today: ~25% have on a mask
* Grocery stores before mask mandate: ~25% wearing masks; now almost everyone has a mask
* local hospital allergy shot clinic: 50% wearing a mask (before the mandate - haven't been back since); dude that was coughing uncontrollably was NOT

In my experience, it has been really random. There are clearly people that are wearing masks (and have since the beginning) and their are those that just refuse to do so and buck the system. The mandate helped, but the most stubborn of the population can't be convinced.

Remember, California is a big state. This is just my area. YMMV.

California is not a big state, it is a massive state. 750 miles long from Eureka to San Diego (the equivalent of driving from Charleston to NYC), 40 Million people (more than Florida, Georgia, Alabama & South Carolina combined), the 5th largest economy on the planet (now bigger than the United Kingdom).

Heck, some of the counties in California are larger than most East Coast states.

Aren't you up in the Bay Area? Like you, here in OC I see the local high school sports teams practicing in the park all the time the past few weeks; the football team from Villa Park High shares the park with the local Marine Corps Junior ROTC squad several times per week.

 

[marni1971]

 

[xdan0920]

The rules are simple according to established public health practice. But they have been twisted and watered down for political purpose. Closing beaches is not dumb. Banning in-person funerals and church services isn't dumb. Buying a t-shirt at Wal-Mart, which is open because they sell groceries, isn't dumb. Not to anyone who is willing to consider the facts.

The problem is that countries that followed the basics--limit leaving home, social distance, wear masks, test and contact trace, have done well. Sweden tried to do lockdown light and didn't do so well. The US failed to have a coherent, science-based national response. Individual state governors politicized their response. The virus know no politics or ideology. We still don't have a national effort to test and contact trace. People will die. The US will continue to place at the top of infections and deaths among our peer Western developed nations.

It's not rocket science. It's sound Public Health Policy, developed over the past century (since the Spanish Flu pandemic). They had anti-mask protests then, too. They were wrong then, and they're wrong now. They had a second and third wave then, and we're probably going to again (the rest of the developed world, not so much).

It's only dumb if you're not willing (or able) to consider the facts. A higher percentage of people are getting sick and dying in the US, and they didn't have to. Other countries were able to formulate a coherent, science-based response. We didn't. THAT'S what's dumb!

This post has so much wrong, I feel bad even quoting it. The rules aren't simple, they are nonsensical. Banning funerals is DUMB. Stopping families from gathering to mourn the passing of a loved one is the exact opposite of sound public health policy, unless you don't think Mental health matters?

In NJ arcades are open but indoor dining isn't. Casinos are open, but they can't give you a drink. Nonsense. If you think these rules make sense, then great, but that's your opinion. Not a fact.

If you think European countries did anything different, then I am not sure what to tell you, you are being willfully blind. You just aren't following along closely.

You are correct, it's not rocket science. But it's also not sound public health policy either. They threw their own rulebook right out the window when they recommended lockdowns despite knowing lockdowns do not work once disease prevalence reaches 1%. They panicked, and we paid the price.

What do you consider "getting sick"? Testing positive? Having symptoms? Being hospitalized? Also, as far as death rates, we aren't the worst, but we did have the worst policy, I agree there. Saving hospital beds by sending sick people to LTC facilities. Talk about sound public health policies.

As far as Sweden....They didn't do lockdown. They had no stay at home orders. And they are right in line with everyone else. And if you just use excess deaths as a measuring stick, they are actually on the low end of their yearly averages.

Maybe people don’t understand science. Or empathy.

I agree, but not in the way you think.

 

[marni1971]

If you think European countries did anything different, then I am not sure what to tell you, you are being willfully blind. You just aren't following along closely..

Our funerals are limited to ten attendees indoors with social distancing at all times.

But Europe isn't seeing the sky rocketing numbers the US currently is. As Fauci said, the numbers are “going in the wrong direction”. Despite what someone else is saying.

 

[xdan0920]

Our funerals are limited to ten attendees indoors with social distancing at all times.

Yeah. Same as here. Dumb.

Edit to add....

Most of Europe, including the UK, is only offering testing for people showing symptoms, so you all are catching WAY LESS asymptomatic cases.

 

[marni1971]

Yeah. Same as here. Dumb.

Thats opinion, as you said earlier.

Most of Europe, including the UK, is only offering testing for people showing symptoms, so you all are catching WAY LESS asymptomatic cases.

Incorrect. Anyone in the UK can get a test.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I haven’t read anywhere creditable that there is a new strain. Where did you get this info from?

I've taken part in our daily hospital meetings where we summarize the latest research and recommendations. Since these meetings began, I haven't seen anything to suggest that the behavior of the virus has substantially changed.

The virus is spreading like wildfire right now due to a collection of bad decisions on both the personal and governmental level, not because of anything inherent to the virus itself.

 

[marni1971]

I haven’t read anywhere creditable that there is a new strain. Where did you get this info from?

The news seems to be just breaking it (over multiple channels) - more infectious but not more deadly.

 

[esskay]

I haven’t read anywhere creditable that there is a new strain. Where did you get this info from?

Mutated European strain of coronavirus more contagious but less potent

The coronavirus pandemic is far from over as it actively spreads across the globe. The infection toll has reached a staggering 10.84 million people since it emerged in late December 2019 in Wuhan City, China. The virus that has left the city has now spread to 188 countries and territories and...

www.news-medical.net

New coronavirus strain spreads faster than original – DW – 07/03/2020

The current dominant strain of COVID-19 is three to six times as infectious as the original variation, a new study has suggested. The new strain is, however, not more severe.

www.dw.com

New, more infectious strain of COVID-19 now dominates global cases of virus: study

Researchers have shown that a variation in the viral genome of COVID-19 improved its ability to infect human cells and helped it become the dominant strain circulating around the world today.

medicalxpress.com

 

[Heppenheimer]

Mutated European strain of coronavirus more contagious but less potent

The coronavirus pandemic is far from over as it actively spreads across the globe. The infection toll has reached a staggering 10.84 million people since it emerged in late December 2019 in Wuhan City, China. The virus that has left the city has now spread to 188 countries and territories and...

www.news-medical.net

New coronavirus strain spreads faster than original – DW – 07/03/2020

The current dominant strain of COVID-19 is three to six times as infectious as the original variation, a new study has suggested. The new strain is, however, not more severe.

www.dw.com

New, more infectious strain of COVID-19 now dominates global cases of virus: study

Researchers have shown that a variation in the viral genome of COVID-19 improved its ability to infect human cells and helped it become the dominant strain circulating around the world today.

medicalxpress.com

This mutation occurred before the virus reached the US, however. We're still dealing with mostly the same strains.

 

[xdan0920]

Thats opinion, as you said earlier.


Incorrect. Anyone in the UK can get a test.

Sure, it’s an opinion. Doesn’t change my original thesis. Dumb rules, ruin it for intelligent rules.

Anyone who has symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) can get a free test to check if they have the virus. Some people without symptoms can have the test too. This test is called the "antigen" or "swab" test.

That’s directly from the NHS website.