Operational issues at the People Mover - no longer walk on and one mess of a queue

[lazyboy97o]

Don't blame FP? Are you kidding?

If you don't understand why it is to blame then you don't understand how FP works.

The park isn't near its tipping point in terms of actual guests in attendance. The park is broken because every guest in the park is operationally speaking more than one person if they hold one or more FPs. When someone holds a FP then they are holding a virtual space in line for a ride or attraction, but are not physically present waiting in that line. Instead, they are physically elsewhere doing something that they wouldn't otherwise be able to do if they didn't have the FP.

The reason why the parks feel so much more crowded and why lines are so much longer is because of FP. The impact is felt everywhere!

The park is absolutely past it’s tipping point in terms of capacity. FastPass+ masks the issue for many, but just getting rid of it would not fix bigger, decades until he making issues.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Don't blame FP? Are you kidding?

If you don't understand why it is to blame then you don't understand how FP works.

The park isn't near its tipping point in terms of actual guests in attendance. The park is broken because every guest in the park is operationally speaking more than one person if they hold one or more FPs. When someone holds a FP then they are holding a virtual space in line for a ride or attraction, but are not physically present waiting in that line. Instead, they are physically elsewhere doing something that they wouldn't otherwise be able to do if they didn't have the FP.

The reason why the parks feel so much more crowded and why lines are so much longer is because of FP. The impact is felt everywhere!

And what part of "high capacity ride with no FP" do you not understand?

There is no FP slowing down standby for TTA. The ride is high capacity. And yet, it can be backed up with a huge line.

And all the other rides have lines.

That's the very definition of "past tipping point."

Don't let hatred of FP cloud reasoning. FP didn't cause an extra 3 million people visiting MK in the past decade. With or without FP, those extra 3 million are just piling up past the tipping point. FP just moves them around and changes the order of who rides when. It can't make over capacity disappear. And it can't create being over capacity. Over capacity happens because more and more people show up, and the number that show up is more than all the attractions can handle.

 

[RollerCoaster]

And what part of "high capacity ride with no FP" do you not understand?

There is no FP slowing down standby for TTA. The ride is high capacity. And yet, it can be backed up with a huge line.

I understand all of the above very, very well. However, based on your response, clearly, you don't understand how FP works and how it impacts the rest of the park's operations.

The long waits at TTA are directly related to FP despite the fact that there is no FP on this attraction.

What most people can't grasp is the concept of the virtual person vs the physical person with FP or any reservation based line system. For every FP you hold you essentially duplicate yourself. If you hold one FP you are two people, the physical and the virtual. If you hold two FP then you are three people, the physical and two virtual, etc.

If you hold a FP for Space Mountain, for example, then your virtual self is waiting in that line and theoretically, you're preventing others from riding. In practice, you prevent others from riding when you actually show up to redeem your FP. So while your virtual self is there, your physical self is off doing things like riding TTA or other rides or shopping or dining or watching a parade or standing on a walkway taking up space. If you had to actually wait in the line at Space Mountain then you wouldn't be eating up capacity on other rides like TTA and taking up space elsewhere in the park!

I'm not going to deny that attendance at MK is up because it is, but the real reason for massive overcrowding, long stand-by waits, and long lines at non-FP attractions is all because of FP+. The additional attendance averages out to about 8,220 extra people per day. That has an impact, but its nothing when compared to how FP+ impacts operations and crowding. When you take into account crowd flows, for example, not all guests will spend all day at the park then you really see that the additional attendance isn't much of a factor. There really isn't an additional 8,200 people in the park on average at every given operating hour.

One of the primary differences between Disneyland and Magic Kingdom is the fact that FP by design in California doesn't allow you to hold more than one at a time, unless the return time is more than 2 hours out and that's also assuming that you get another FP before the one you hold is valid. Nearly every guest walking into Magic Kingdom in the morning holds 3 FP's, which in theory means they are the equivalent of four people walking in the door, three virtual and one physical.

Also, don't infer that my comments imply that I hate FP. My opinion of the system varies. I see the benefits, but I also see the cons!

 

[N2dru]

I understand all of the above very, very well. However, based on your response, clearly, you don't understand how FP works and how it impacts the rest of the park's operations.

The long waits at TTA are directly related to FP despite the fact that there is no FP on this attraction.

What most people can't grasp is the concept of the virtual person vs the physical person with FP or any reservation based line system. For every FP you hold you essentially duplicate yourself. If you hold one FP you are two people, the physical and the virtual. If you hold two FP then you are three people, the physical and two virtual, etc.

If you hold a FP for Space Mountain, for example, then your virtual self is waiting in that line and theoretically, you're preventing others from riding. In practice, you prevent others from riding when you actually show up to redeem your FP. So while your virtual self is there, your physical self is off doing things like riding TTA or other rides or shopping or dining or watching a parade or standing on a walkway taking up space. If you had to actually wait in the line at Space Mountain then you wouldn't be eating up capacity on other rides like TTA and taking up space elsewhere in the park!

I'm not going to deny that attendance at MK is up because it is, but the real reason for massive overcrowding, long stand-by waits, and long lines at non-FP attractions is all because of FP+. The additional attendance averages out to about 8,220 extra people per day. That has an impact, but its nothing when compared to how FP+ impacts operations and crowding. When you take into account crowd flows, for example, not all guests will spend all day at the park then you really see that the additional attendance isn't much of a factor. There really isn't an additional 8,200 people in the park on average at every given operating hour.

One of the primary differences between Disneyland and Magic Kingdom is the fact that FP by design in California doesn't allow you to hold more than one at a time, unless the return time is more than 2 hours out and that's also assuming that you get another FP before the one you hold is valid. Nearly every guest walking into Magic Kingdom in the morning holds 3 FP's, which in theory means they are the equivalent of four people walking in the door, three virtual and one physical.

Also, don't infer that my comments imply that I hate FP. My opinion of the system varies. I see the benefits, but I also see the cons!

Well said...FP can be a curse and a blessing.

 

[RobWDW1971]

Well said...FP can be a curse and a blessing.

It's a curse. Just go to any theme park that doesn't have it and you are reminded how your day can actually be spontaneous and fun.

 

[the-reason14]

Here’s my take on everything as someone who use to go to WDW yearly in the 90s through maybe 2012 ish. After that, trips for me become more scattered. I ‘blame” this whole thing on fastpass+. The maintenance and upkeep definitely contribute as well. As far as why the lines for this and other “line buster” attractions are so long now is because fastpass+ has ruined them. Sure the system has its advantages and disadvantages, what doesn't. Also, I will admit ever since its introduction I have never given it a proper chance as I simply do not go to WDW as much, but because of history I will always prefer the original fastpass system. I don’t buy the argument that WDW is more popular than ever which is why lines are longer. Fastpass+ is a way for Disney to redistribute the crowds and force people to go where Disney ultimately want them to go. Before fastpass+ a lot of rides didn’t have fastpasses mostly because they didn’t need them. IASW and HM are good examples. The original fastpass was first come first serve and did not make up such an integral part of a families’ trip. I guess depending on how you like to vacation at WDW would determine which fastpass system you prefer, but once upon time it was a choice, now it is a necessity. Disney knew that in order for it to really “work” the way they wanted they had to offer more fastpass options. So now rides that never needed fastpass simply need them to give people options. Artificial demand is all it is, but I do agree that the MK could benefit more with Disneyland fantasyland type of attractions. I don’t see it happening and each park should offer something the other don’t. I grew up a WDW kid but now much prefer Disneyland for it’s charm.

*Edit*

After reading a few more posts about maintenance, the lack of trains they have running is most likely the real issue. If they can fix the issues with the linear motors and operate at full capacity I’m sure the lines would look shorter. The cones in the random cars tell me that this is unlikely to happen, but a kid can dream.