Updates to the Seas Pavilion

J

JBIRDTO

Active Member
Nunu said:
I'd do Mermaid only if standy is at 30mins or less. I like the exterior, the queue and the beginning of the ride, when you've boarded the clamshell and go "under water". From there, the quality of the ride goes downhill for me.

It occupies a large space, I wouldn't have minded for it to be smaller, but done well. What a missed opportunity!
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The frustrating thing for me about mermaid is the very short load platform. It looks long however it is also unload and give everyone a very short window to load. Unfortunately this causes many unintended stops. I don’t think I have ever been on with a clean run.
 
Tavernacle12

Tavernacle12

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I don't think there's a ton they can do. They can't make that tunnel bigger or do much with it because it goes through the aquarium tank. Using that location has numerous constraints.

What they should do is remove the Nemo ride completely, change it back to the old sea cabs with the Sea Base Alpha theme, and then go build an actual Nemo ride somewhere else (Magic Kingdom or Hollywood Studios... I'd even be okay with Animal Kingdom if it was part of a retheme of the Dinosaur area) that can be built from scratch with the freedom that allows. They'd be able to build something much more impressive than they could ever build in that repurposed tunnel.
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They can upgrade the screens to animatronics, alter the plot to be more interesting, and maybe even use some of the Runaway Railway tech to make the tunnels seem bigger than they are.

It just feels like a waste to me, the way it is now. I understand it was a budget addition but it wouldn’t be that hard to plus it.
 
tirian

tirian

Well-Known Member
trainplane3 said:
I mean...I'm just reminiscing about the original style but it really made it feel like you were in some kind of technological marvel:
seabase_alpha6_20131028_2039516043.jpg

vs
22849620787_84a68705b2_b.jpg

All of the blues are just so boring. Everything just looks flat (and even dreary in person) now whereas before the paint added depth to the flat surfaces (am I making any sense?). I get that they want to make it "fun" looking but surely you can do better then buying all shades of blue.
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To be fair, in 2006, the Seas looked ancient. Everyone thought the future looked like a sleek video game from an alien planet, and the old EPCOT Center architecture was a relic from the early ‘80s. Look at the Walt Disney Concert Hall in LA for an extreme example of the public’s vision of the future. With their bleached woods and pewter hardware, stores like Gap and Banana Republic felt fresh and modern.

Nobody could’ve predicted the old Epcot architecture would become attractive again, and angles would become “authentic” and “realistic,” while those cold colors and bleached woods would look like a blip on the trends of the late ‘90s and early ‘00s.

But I agree with you. Since hindsight is 20/20, it’s time to return to Seabase Alpha. It still needs to be updated to the future — not a carbon-copy of the ‘80s — but grounded back in reality to sell the idea you’re really underwater. High-tech hydrolators wouldn’t hurt, either.
 
trainplane3

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
tirian said:
To be fair, in 2006, the Seas looked ancient. Everyone thought the future looked like a sleek video game from an alien planet, and the old EPCOT Center architecture was a relic from the early ‘80s. Look at the Walt Disney Concert Hall in LA for an extreme example of the public’s vision of the future. With their bleached woods and pewter hardware, stores like Gap and Banana Republic felt fresh and modern.

Nobody could’ve predicted the old Epcot architecture would become attractive again, and angles would become “authentic” and “realistic,” while those cold colors and bleached woods would look like a blip on the trends of the late ‘90s and early ‘00s.

But I agree with you. Since hindsight is 20/20, it’s time to return to Seabase Alpha. It still needs to be updated to the future — not a carbon-copy of the ‘80s — but grounded back in reality to sell the idea you’re really underwater. High-tech hydrolators wouldn’t hurt, either.
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If they would've done more to "sleekify" it (do actual redesign work to eliminate angles) instead of coating it in pure blue, the colors could've worked. But tossing paint on stuff doesn't do much, or anything, to fix it (CC buildings...).

It is funny how the old architecture really feels like it only fell out of style for maybe a decade? That's not too bad really. I feel the Land and Imagination haven't fell out of style at all. The Land was refreshed internally and looks fine while I still want the mural back and glass dome outside the entrance. Imagination looks bad inside but outside, the building itself is still great looking (okay, paint work needed...) and I doubt they'd build something like it now.
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
Peter Pan gets a pass because it was innovative when it came out. And it's in such a tiny space that there isn't much that could replace it. And nostalgia.

The newer, bigger, more recent rides should have been much better.

I should say that I never ride it unless it's a walk on at the end of a MK After Hours event.
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I don't really seek out either unless someone in my group wants to go on it. Having said that, if I can get a Peter Pan fastpass I'll do it. With Mermaid, you can often get an instant Fastpass for that so that's typically what I'll do. I'm not sure that I've ever waited Standby for Mermaid when it's had more than a 5 minute wait other than my initial ride through at DCA where I probably waited half an hour.

UNCgolf said:
Mermaid had the advantage of roughly 50 years in technological advancement.
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40 years, but your point is well taken.

The thing is, the AAs in Mermaid are amongst the best in the land. Yes they're plasticy but so are most hand drawn animation dark ride adaptations. I'd also argue that Mermaid was absolutely a capacity boost to the park and something that is needed in spades. The Magic Kingdom needs similar D ticket attractions in Adventureland and Tomorrowland that will absorb crowds but not really affect the gate.

There is a misconception that every new addition needs to be a mega E-ticket. That was never the promise with Mermaid, it ultimately was asked to be that because of Harry Potter, but anyone that had two brain cells to rub together understood that New Fantasyland was initially a capacity play. For me, the more objectionable thing was underbuilding Mine Train.
 
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UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
General Mayhem said:
As a passholder who visits on a practically weekly basis, this is not true. Journey of the Little Mermaid (bc remember Voyage is at DHS) tends to gather quite the crowd on a daily basis reaching 60 minutes again on a weekly basis. Every time I've gone through the queue all sorts of people interact with the screens... just not in the right way. Instead of pointing at the crabs to take away items, they just wave at them. Some of you fans need to stop acting like your opinion dictates what the general public enjoys/does.
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The last 4 times I've been in the Magic Kingdom, Little Mermaid was a walk-on. The one time I rode, it said it had a 20 minute wait, but I walked straight through the queue and boarded the ride without ever waiting.

I'm sure it gets 30-40 minute waits at times, but every ride in the Magic Kingdom has lines like that when it's busy, and all the really good attractions have much longer lines.
 
Incomudro

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
tirian said:
To be fair, in 2006, the Seas looked ancient. Everyone thought the future looked like a sleek video game from an alien planet, and the old EPCOT Center architecture was a relic from the early ‘80s. Look at the Walt Disney Concert Hall in LA for an extreme example of the public’s vision of the future. With their bleached woods and pewter hardware, stores like Gap and Banana Republic felt fresh and modern.

Nobody could’ve predicted the old Epcot architecture would become attractive again, and angles would become “authentic” and “realistic,” while those cold colors and bleached woods would look like a blip on the trends of the late ‘90s and early ‘00s.

But I agree with you. Since hindsight is 20/20, it’s time to return to Seabase Alpha. It still needs to be updated to the future — not a carbon-copy of the ‘80s — but grounded back in reality to sell the idea you’re really underwater. High-tech hydrolators wouldn’t hurt, either.
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Looking at this, and the Epcot posts - it's interesting that Geico has an ad series in the NYC subway cars based on the theme "We'll always guess the future wrong."
It's a series of ads using images that look like 1950's and 60's visions of tomorrow and how they didn't come true.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
RSoxNo1 said:
There is a misconception that every new addition needs to be a mega E-ticket. That was never the promise with Mermaid,
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I agree but the attraction being part of a heavily advertised expansion and with an expensive and elaborate cue sets it up for disappointment. The omnimover system also suggests a better than average ride. I like the Winnie the Pooh ride in Florida... sure I wish we had Tokyo’s version but the one in Florida hits all the marks of what a basic fantasyland dark ride should be.

Something about mermaid feels off, and I think it’s the choice to have elaborate AA’s next to plastic starfish glued to the wall that remind me of McDonald’s level theming.

Nemo never stoops that low, it’s a fairly basic ride and I question some of the decisions like boarding up the aquarium windows... but it’s still a decent family dark ride.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
RSoxNo1 said:
40 years, but your point is well taken.

The thing is, the AAs in Mermaid are amongst the best in the land. Yes they're plasticy but so are most hand drawn animation dark ride adaptations. I'd also argue that Mermaid was absolutely a capacity boost to the park and something that is needed in spades. The Magic Kingdom needs similar D ticket attractions in Adventureland and Tomorrowland that will absorb crowds but not really affect the gate.

There is a misconception that every new addition needs to be a mega E-ticket. That was never the promise with Mermaid, it ultimately was asked to be that because of Harry Potter, but anyone that had two brain cells to rub together understood that New Fantasyland was initially a capacity play. For me, the more objectionable thing was underbuilding Mine Train.
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I almost said 60 years, because I'm not sure how much really changed for the Disney World version versus the original 1955 Disneyland attraction, but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme.

I guess the real issue is not the AAs themselves, but how few there are and the lack of details surrounding them. The ride basically has the opposite problem from Na'vi River Journey (Frozen does as well). I don't think it needs to be an E ticket, but it just feels underbuilt relative to the space in use.
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I almost said 60 years, because I'm not sure how much really changed for the Disney World version versus the original 1955 Disneyland attraction, but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme.

I guess the real issue is not the AAs themselves, but how few there are and the lack of details surrounding them. The ride basically has the opposite problem from Na'vi River Journey (Frozen does as well). I don't think it needs to be an E ticket, but it just feels underbuilt relative to the space in use.
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I think the scenes have more depth (as long as you don't look up) than any Fantasyland dark ride. We're used to busbar style dark rides in Fantasyland but if Disney built one of those today we'd complain about that too. It's a book report ride that was designed to handle large amounts of people.

As for the marketing of it, Disney marketing was atrocious around the time that this debuted. New Fantasyland in general was far from perfect and when this opened as the first "addition" to the park in quite some time people couldn't help but feel underwhelmed. I just ask that the ride be viewed as a comparison in scope and scale to other Fantasyland dark rides.
 
tirian

tirian

Well-Known Member
RSoxNo1 said:
I think the scenes have more depth (as long as you don't look up) than any Fantasyland dark ride. We're used to busbar style dark rides in Fantasyland but if Disney built one of those today we'd complain about that too. It's a book report ride that was designed to handle large amounts of people.

As for the marketing of it, Disney marketing was atrocious around the time that this debuted. New Fantasyland in general was far from perfect and when this opened as the first "addition" to the park in quite some time people couldn't help but feel underwhelmed. I just ask that the ride be viewed as a comparison in scope and scale to other Fantasyland dark rides.
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You should’ve seen the internal marketing. Eyes and Ears ran a special edition cast mag with a diecut map and features on all the new additions. And if my memories are correct, this was a huge internal push simply for M&G’s plus Mermaid. New FL was hailed as the Biggest Expansion Ever (!) before Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.
 

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