Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

[flynnibus]

I didn't make up anything that wasn't correct. Everything I said is true.

A broken clock is also correct twice a day.. it doesn't make it right.

What you're pushing for has value.. it's just much of what you were trying to support it with was wrong.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

It's no easier for a local to be there... you've got a beef with Disney Transportation and somehow are extrapolating this into a locals vs resort guests thing. If you don't like Disney's transportation constraints for a situation - DON'T USE IT. Nothing is preventing you from hopping into a car, or calling a taxi, or an uber, and getting there on your own accord.

"Disney transportation sucks" is not "its easier for locals" garbage. It's simply people needing to acknowledge Disney's transportation is not as time efficient as someone providing their own transportation. This has nothing to do with RoTR, BGs, opening times, whatever.. it's just simple common sense. In isolation and in low scale, having your own vehicle is going to usually be more efficient than a interval based bus.

It's amazing people are huffing and puffing about this WEEKS later, stressing over how to plan, etc.. when a simple one-time $15 uber ride eliminates 100% of the grief.

You're dreaming up new complaints and comparisons.. trying to label things.. and just getting it all wrong because you can't figure out how to focus in on what your actual conflict is.

7am or 8am or any am - it doesn't make a difference when your actual complaint is the amount of extra time you have to account for because you are relying on the free Disney buses.

Instead of buying one over-priced t-shirt... spare yourself all this grief and get a car/taxi/uber this ONE TIME to deal with RoTR access.

the argument still has merit. nothing of what you're saying is wrong, per se, but he's essentially stating that the issue Exists. disney transporation has never been tested as to arrive at a specific early time that could literally be a make-it-or-break-it scenario if you miss that time, so the inconvenience is noteworthy.

for example, I hate taxis and ubers. I'd rather use the disney transport any chance I get. as a guest, the system inconveniences me because disney buses honestly DO suck. while I may be be acting a bit entitled, it's not an uncommon complaint, and one that Disney has definitely taken account of.

 

[flynnibus]

for example, I hate taxis and ubers. I'd rather use the disney transport any chance I get. as a guest, the system inconveniences me because disney buses honestly DO suck. while I may be be acting a bit entitled, it's not an uncommon complaint, and one that Disney has definitely taken account of.

to be filed under 'disney transportation complaints'...

Not "why locals have it better than resort guests"

 

[DarkMetroid567]

to be filed under 'disney transportation complaints'...

Not "why locals have it better than resort guests"

I guess? honestly that argument could go in so many different ways: lifestyle, economics, fairness, transportation, etc.

better to leave it tbh

 

[thecouch]

Board groups are easier for locals then fastpass. A local can turn up at Park opening on there day off and get one. If it was fastpass they would all be gone 60 plus days out.

 

[Haymarket2008]

@marni1971

Will Mickey be the last full on ride through attraction added to DHS prior to the 50th anniversary? Or will the Black Box project sneak in there?

 

[djkidkaz]

Board groups are easier for locals then fastpass. A local can turn up at Park opening on there day off and get one. If it was fastpass they would all be gone 60 plus days out.

I am local and would disagree. I'd much rather sit at home the night before watching Netflix and just refresh the app for an hour until a fastness pops up for tomorrow. I just take whatever time it is and then build my day around that pass.

Boarding groups require me waking up early and there is no guarantee that I will get an early group. So now I may be stuck at Studios all day if I get a group in the 100's, or the ride is down with issues and there is no guarantee that a backup boarding group will be called. I also don't want to arrive at 7am, get a group in the 100's, have to drive home and come back hours later.

Get a fastpass from the comfort of my couch, watch the blogs during the day to see if the ride is functioning properly before I leave to studios, do my fastpass and be on my way. Much simpler.

 

[disneygeek90]

I think the concept of boarding groups in general is better, yes -- I just don't think the timing for acquiring a boarding group is ideal. I think it's easier for locals to be there at opening, especially since they moved the opening time of the park back to 7 AM. It would have be easier for resort guests if the opening time remained at 8. Using Disney transportation to get to a park is a crapshoot. Making the opening time so early means guests need to be out waiting for a bus by 6 or perhaps even earlier. I know I've had to wait 30+ minutes for a Disney bus before, and then there's usually 15-20 minutes of transit time, and then actually disembarking and walking to the entrance. It's definitely possible you could be at a bus stop at 6 AM and still not make it into the park until after 7.

Just splitting the boarding groups in half would be a big improvement. Half are available at park opening, the other half become available at noon or something like that.

The problem with splitting the groups is you’d still have the same amount of people early in the morning that you do now. Heck, we still see people arriving at 5am when they don’t need to. Everyone would still show up at the same time, if only to guarantee a “second chance” if they didn’t make the first window. Then you’d have half of the people, that were in the park bright and early, be told they didn’t make a group and they need to come back in 5 hours if they want a chance to try again.

Then you would have those in the morning group inevitably miss both windows, but maybe would have gotten group 60 in the morning had the app allowed it. I don’t know, that feels worse to me and a big waste for people holding onto the “maybe we can get a group to maybe ride” for half their day. At least now you know if you have a chance or not to ride by 9am, if not earlier.

 

[scottieRoss]

This entire debate can be clarified as
I do not want to get up, so save me a pass I can get in the afternoon.
Transportation issues are just a strawman to divert the argument.
Fairness to locals or resort guests is yet another strawman to diver the argument.

Fairness is first come first served at park opening. Everyone has the same opportunity, they just have to decide if the opportunity cost is worth the reward. But it does not lean in anyone's favor. Unfairness would be releasing some of the boarding groups at 7 am and then maybe more later and maybe even more even later. What would fair about someone who took the effort to get there at 7 am and not getting a boarding group in favor of someone who slept in, enjoyed breakfast at their resort, then sauntered over to DHS at 11 and getting a coveted boarding group?

 

[UNCgolf]

This entire debate can be clarified as
I do not want to get up, so save me a pass I can get in the afternoon.
Transportation issues are just a strawman to divert the argument.
Fairness to locals or resort guests is yet another strawman to diver the argument.

Fairness is first come first served at park opening. Everyone has the same opportunity, they just have to decide if the opportunity cost is worth the reward. But it does not lean in anyone's favor. Unfairness would be releasing some of the boarding groups at 7 am and then maybe more later and maybe even more even later. What would fair about someone who took the effort to get there at 7 am and not getting a boarding group in favor of someone who slept in, enjoyed breakfast at their resort, then sauntered over to DHS at 11 and getting a coveted boarding group?

What's fair about someone who is there at 7 AM and still doesn't get a boarding group because their app wasn't working properly? Or because everyone else just managed to get one before their request went through?

It has nothing to do with fairness. The current system isn't "fair", and the system we've been discussing wouldn't be "fair" either. There is no "fair" in this process. But handing out all boarding groups at 7 AM is less equitable than other ways, and it's certainly not the most efficient way for Disney operations to run the ride.

Also, it's not first come first served. That would be if you lined up outside the park, and then the first person in line was the first person on the ride. That isn't how this works.

 

[disneygeek90]

What's fair about someone who is there at 7 AM and still doesn't get a boarding group because their app wasn't working properly? Or because everyone else just managed to get one before their request went through?

It has nothing to do with fairness. The current system isn't "fair", and the system we've been discussing wouldn't be "fair" either. There is no "fair" in this process. But handing out all boarding groups at 7 AM is less equitable than other ways, and it's certainly not the most efficient way for Disney operations to run the ride.

Also, it's not first come first served. That would be if you lined up outside the park, and then the first person in line was the first person on the ride. That isn't how this works at all.

I think it’s more fair than unlocking groups throughout the day. The true first come first serve process is how the ride operated the first two weeks. The problem with this is people were arriving earlier and earlier. It wasn’t sustainable so they had to change it to discourage crazy early arrivals. What they have now is a first come first serve process, to an extent. You’re still in a better position to receive a pass if you’re in the park before open than if you’re not.

I don’t think there’s an easy answer here and none of them are perfect. Every solution that’s been discussed on this board I’m sure has been discussed by Disney operations.

 

[Casper Gutman]

This entire debate can be clarified as
I do not want to get up, so save me a pass I can get in the afternoon.
Transportation issues are just a strawman to divert the argument.
Fairness to locals or resort guests is yet another strawman to diver the argument.

Fairness is first come first served at park opening. Everyone has the same opportunity, they just have to decide if the opportunity cost is worth the reward. But it does not lean in anyone's favor. Unfairness would be releasing some of the boarding groups at 7 am and then maybe more later and maybe even more even later. What would fair about someone who took the effort to get there at 7 am and not getting a boarding group in favor of someone who slept in, enjoyed breakfast at their resort, then sauntered over to DHS at 11 and getting a coveted boarding group?

Man, between this and the half-a-year planning necessary for ride and restaurant reservations, WHAT FUN a WDW trip is! Pay exorbitant amounts for a hotel and a ticket and then compete tooth-and-nail with all the other saps for a chance to actually ride something! Relaxation! Escapism! Let’s all spit on the slugs who expected to eat breakfast on vacation!

Seriously, do folks not see how absurd this is for a leading vacation destination? The fact that someone could unironically write what you did above is the sign of a MASSIVE failure on WDWs part.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think it’s more fair than unlocking groups throughout the day. The true first come first serve process is how the ride operated the first two weeks. The problem with this is people were arriving earlier and earlier. It wasn’t sustainable so they had to change it to discourage crazy early arrivals. What they have now is a first come first serve process, to an extent. You’re still in a better position to receive a pass if you’re in the park before open than if you’re not.

I don’t think there’s an easy answer here and none of them are perfect. Every solution that’s been discussed on this board I’m sure has been discussed by Disney operations.

I think progressively opening up groups multiple times throughout the day is more fair than assigning them all at opening, but I realize it's subjective opinion. And yes, I personally don't want to have to get up super early just to be there at 7 AM for the chance to get a boarding group, which isn't a pressing concern (although I do think it's a bit unfair to expect anyone to get up that early in the morning while on vacation when riding isn't even guaranteed). But there are a lot of Disney guests who would have difficulty getting there that early for reasons that aren't fully in their control.

Either way, I do think it would be easier for Disney to manage the ride if they didn't assign them all immediately. They would be able to see how things are going for the day and adjust accordingly, which would also mean they'd have to hand out less FastPasses on the slow days. That would then help things move along more quickly in the following days when they don't have to accommodate a bunch of FastPasses.

 

[RobWDW1971]

Man, between this and the half-a-year planning necessary for ride and restaurant reservations, WHAT FUN a WDW trip is! Pay exorbitant amounts for a hotel and a ticket and then compete tooth-and-nail with all the other saps for a chance to actually ride something! Relaxation! Escapism! Let’s all spit on the slugs who expected to eat breakfast on vacation!

Seriously, do folks not see how absurd this is for a leading vacation destination? The fact that someone could unironically write what you did above is the sign of a MASSIVE failure on WDWs part.

I was thinking about this the last time I was at WDW and watching parents frantically pounding their cels booking FP’s, dragging their kids aggressively from rope drop to Dwarfs Mine Train, elbowing people to get a parade spot, etc.

Is this new dynamic also being caused by adults that are now are more passionate about rides or their determination to get their money’s worth?

When I was a kid, it seemed very few parents were passionate about going on the rides and the experience was driven by the kids and what they wanted to do. Now it seems the poor kids are being dragged around while the parents are in full commando mode to see and do everything.

The idea that my dad would get out of bed when it was dark to go to an amusement park to get me a ticket to ride a ride is insane.

Just an odd dynamic to watch these “power parents” while the kids seem happy on their phone and going with the flow and not really too upset if they don’t get to ride Peter Pan.

 

[disneygeek90]

I think progressively opening up groups multiple times throughout the day is more fair than assigning them all at opening, but I realize it's subjective opinion. And yes, I personally don't want to have to get up super early just to be there at 7 AM for the chance to get a boarding group, which isn't a pressing concern (although I do think it's a bit unfair to expect anyone to get up that early in the morning while on vacation when riding isn't even guaranteed). But there are a lot of Disney guests who would have difficulty getting there that early for reasons that aren't fully in their control.

Either way, I do think it would be easier for Disney to manage the ride if they didn't assign them all immediately. They would be able to see how things are going for the day and adjust accordingly, which would also mean they'd have to hand out less FastPasses on the slow days. That would then help things move along more quickly in the following days when they don't have to accommodate a bunch of FastPasses.

To be fair, I’m pretty sure Friday was the first day since the new year that they didn’t call all normal groups. It’s not like they are having to hand out fast passes several times a week.

At the end of the day it is what it is. We’re all playing by Disney’s rules and adaptation is key.

 

[larryz]

Getting there at 6-630 gives you absolutely no advantage over some one who gets their at 6:59. None.

Well, someone who arrives at 6:15 WILL have an advantage over someone who gets there at 6:59. They'll be through the tapstiles before 7:00.

 

[Mike S]

It's no easier for a local to be there... you've got a beef with Disney Transportation and somehow are extrapolating this into a locals vs resort guests thing. If you don't like Disney's transportation constraints for a situation - DON'T USE IT. Nothing is preventing you from hopping into a car, or calling a taxi, or an uber, and getting there on your own accord.

"Disney transportation sucks" is not "its easier for locals" garbage. It's simply people needing to acknowledge Disney's transportation is not as time efficient as someone providing their own transportation. This has nothing to do with RoTR, BGs, opening times, whatever.. it's just simple common sense. In isolation and in low scale, having your own vehicle is going to usually be more efficient than a interval based bus.

It's amazing people are huffing and puffing about this WEEKS later, stressing over how to plan, etc.. when a simple one-time $15 uber ride eliminates 100% of the grief.

You're dreaming up new complaints and comparisons.. trying to label things.. and just getting it all wrong because you can't figure out how to focus in on what your actual conflict is.

7am or 8am or any am - it doesn't make a difference when your actual complaint is the amount of extra time you have to account for because you are relying on the free Disney buses.

Instead of buying one over-priced t-shirt... spare yourself all this grief and get a car/taxi/uber this ONE TIME to deal with RoTR access.

Doing something for yourself will almost always be more efficient than waiting on others. It’s a fact of life.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You know what’s “fair”? Lines are fair. No golden ticket line-jumping, no boarding groups. Lines. You wait in a nice queue and board after the person in front of you. No artificial stops and starts. Six-hour line? Don’t get in. It will fluctuate because there isn’t a billion-dollar system in place ensuring a constant level of misery. Or go to another line, because it will be shorter, because people are physically waiting in the six-hour line.

And if Disney doesn’t want people waiting in a six-hour line? Extend park hours to 1 or 2. Or increase capacity any way possible, with loads of street entertainment until new people-eating attractions can be opened.

This is a massive mess, and every inch of it is WDWs fault. And they have no interest in fixing it.

 

[No Name]

If I had to guess, it would either be for the function of A) Attempting to relieve Rise of a little bit of pressure, if they were to make you choose which Virtual Queue to enter, or B) For the function of getting guests out of whatever length queue they anticipate would form for Runaway Railway and back into the shops, restaurants, etc. where there's actually the potential to spend money.

Guests in line for rides aren't spending money - which was the original impetus for Fastpass. Never mind the fact that most guests use Fastpass as a means to get on more rides rather than spend more time parting with their dollars. Think of all the money I wouldn't have spent on food, drink, and gifts this Wednesday if I'd been stuck in a 5 hour line for Rise instead of floating around while we inch towards my Boarding Group.

This almost makes me wonder if that's what's driven the trend of shorter rides with lower capacity? You can design a ride that handles 3,000 people an hour, but then that's 3,000 more people that hour who aren't buying souvenirs. So if you design for lower capacity, you're pushing more people into the queue, which either self-regulates because guests think the line is too long, or it gets navigated with Fastpass and gives you that time back in the hopes that you find a store to browse with your extra time. Or a bar to hit up in the case of Epcot over the last 20 years.

But maybe my foil hat is too tight.

Just about every other amusement/theme park sells an option to skip the lines, which increases in value as the wait times increase. This could cause those companies to foolishly develop rides with alterior motives in regard to capacity. Thankfully Disney only offers a relatively small advantage to hotel guests, but if they have plans to introduce paid FP, they may foolishly find lower capacity beneficial. I don’t think making guests less happy for a quick buck is a good strategy though.

But regardless, it’s best to build attractions with high capacity, and then if they want to lower capacity, run half the ride or run it twice as slow or whatever. But they should give themselves that kind of flexibility.

 

[MisterPenguin]

No system is perfectly fair. From the previous BG debate used for RotR...

First-come-first-serve [just a Standby Line] has issues:

1. Where do you put the thousands of people showing up earlier and earlier to beat out one another? What if that crowd is keeping the gondola from being unloaded? If you hold them in the park... what do you do with several thousand people in the park and not open any attractions for them? You open early... oops.. no, that would mean not opening at the time as advertised, and that would by lying. And guests would just show up even earlier the next day.​

​

2. 8-10 hour lines are fun to boast about, but they're a nightmare for guests... and for ops as they now have to manage that huge herd. Bathroom breaks, line-cutting and the ensuing fights, the need to get food and water to them so as not to have them pass out (for some folk).​

​

3. You're basically saying, "Hey kids, this ain't for you. It's for the adult nerds who can set up a base camp for eight hours." One may not like the part of the mantra "more family friendly"... but that is a significant part of Disney's bread and butter. So, this system excludes families with kids. "First to the gate" is fair... for people hardy enough to endure it.​

I still think a lottery is the way to go...

I would think a lottery system in which every day you can put your group in for a chance "to board" seven days later with a portion set aside for resort guests that can put in for the lottery two days advance. If you "win" you receive a time to show up. Winners blacked out from winning again for a month.

Resort guest have access to the seven day and two day lotteries. Locals have access to the seven day lottery year round.

Not totally perfect, but very fair.

No problem of gate rushers trying to beat everyone else so they can ride. No promises to be broken about opening time. No need to open early unexpectedly. No system of "to the hardy go the spoils."

Indeed, this.

When you have more people wanting to ride it than it can handle, then there will be people who can't ride it. And no matter what system you use to determine who those losers will be, they will think the system unfair.

There is no perfectly fair way to handle this. Only systems that favor one group over another based on reasons for favoring those groups. The groups that get left out will argue that your priorities are wrong. And thus... no perfectly fair system that everyone will be happy with.

And, as @DarkMetroid567 mentioned, the system in place is to favor Operations. They schedule a known amount of guests that they presume they can handle, and if they can't, they get comped. Then they schedule a known amount of guests that they may not get to and call them "backup". If they don't get to them or only a part of them, they don't have to comp them because they're "backup."

They use a virtual electronic lottery system by having everyone slam a server all at the same time. Again, this is for Ops, because at DHS, people were showing up earlier and earlier to win the lottery, and they had to stop that before they wound up opening at 3 AM.