"The more things change . . ." well, what would you do?

Demarke

Have I told you lately that I 👍 you?
Premium Member
I personally wish there were more animatronic-focused rides and less screen-based, but that's just a personal preference.

Given the amount of space to work with, I would focus on adding experiences (like Rat or Tron), rather than figuring out which current attraction needs to be torn down and replaced (like GMR or UoE). It seems that a lot of rides with high capacity get bad raps because there isn't much of a line and it seems like the modern solution is to replace a 2000 rider per hour ride with a 1000 per hour capacity ride and high five each other because the new ride always has an hour wait (and is a shorter experience when you finish navigating the line to boot!).

Also, I would stop shutting down large portions of parks with no real plans to replace with anything engaging (looking at you Epcot). I know they did immediate work replacing UoE and are finally doing something with WoL, but when I went back a couple of years ago, it felt like a going out of business shopping mall so much was closed down. I walked in and you've got Communicore/Innoventions that was largely closed off, or unused, or replaced with photo ops, then left to UoE closed behind construction walls, WoL closed, then a little further Odyssey was closed, then loop over to Imagination where the entire top floor was closed off, to the Land where Circle of Life closed, then to the Seas where, while not closed, they removed a lot of elements (hydrolators, and covering much/most of the aquarium views from the ride). Then at Magic Kingdom Stitch is in a prime location and who knows when/if it will ever revert back to something other than a photo op. Hollywood Studios has its own issues, but at least they have tended to start working on replacements fairly quickly when they've shut things down.
 
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TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It’s still crazy that Disney let Pleasure Island Rot in front of the public for years before they did anything.

Especially when adventurers club and comedy warehouse could have been making them money!!!
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
The problem is that most of the people on here are looking at Disney from just the parks...it's just a spoke (or several) of the giant Disney wheel (so to speak). If you take the parks out of the equation, Iger has, like you said, done a great job from a stockholders perspective. The only arguments we, as a family, now have is all the nickel & dimeing that is now taking place...resort parking fees, reusable bags, upcharge events, etc. combine that with the reduced hours (few 11 pm's, midnights, etc.) I totally understand that things are not what they once were, but nothing in life is...beloved rides are gone, food quality has gone down (some has, but not all). We still find WDW to be an awesome place to vacation.
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Agreed, Disney is more than theme parks, yes they makes movies like John Carter (700 million dollar loss) and the Disney version of Star Wars (disliked by actual Star Wars fans) but in my opinion the theme parks are a cash cow for Disney.

As you stated all the changes we see at the parks is because we are loyal, returning customers to the parks. I may be wrong but it's feeling more and more the returning guest is NOT the target customer Disney wants at the theme parks as the new visitor has nothing to compare to.

And I also agree, EVERY move Disney makes is made with the aim to increase shareholder value!
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
Got my Gold AP's about the same time. :) I was going to wait to buy until closer to actual trip, but once I had the money I really wanted those passes "In hand" knowing the general trend of price increases without much predictability. Paid off, if i didn't, AP prices probably wouldn't have gone up, so its all my fault I guess. :(
Just don't validate them until you get there...if you do it now, the one year clock starts ticking...
 

BoarderPhreak

Well-Known Member
That saying was invented by imagineers as a motivational phrase for Horizons. It was not a goal of Disney, just a clever saying. Walt never said that. But, even if it were what is wrong with dreaming about doing something better then Universal. I'll be so glad when this IP crap dies out. It is meaningless as the definition E Ticket status. I have been to both Disney and Uni numerous times and have yet to see anything that was copying Universal.
I know exactly where it's from. 😉

Universal is more about IP than Disney, and Disney's ramping up the IP. Competing with Harry Potter world is Star Wars, to cite one "example" of this.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I know exactly where it's from. 😉

Universal is more about IP than Disney, and Disney's ramping up the IP. Competing with Harry Potter world is Star Wars, to cite one "example" of this.
Yes, I know, but, Potter is no more an IP then Mickey Mouse is. Just about everything that Disney is using in the parks now (except Avatar) is owned by Disney or is a locally generated IP. Every damn thing ever created is an IP. We need to stop thinking that there is anything that isn't. If it is done well, who the hell cares were if came from. If it's entertaining and good what difference does it make who thought of it first. If we relied on one source to fill all the Disney Parks there would be a lot fewer parks and even the ones that would be there, would have very little to see. The only original thoughts that Disney created were only able to fill MK (both coasts were very close to clones upon opening) and Epcot. After that they had to rely on the creations of others. Sorry, I don't see what that problem is with that.
 

starri42

Well-Known Member
Just about everything that Disney is using in the parks now (except Avatar) is owned by Disney or is a locally generated IP
Don't they own Avatar now? I know James Cameron owns some of it, but their original deal was with him AND Fox.

I mean, they don't own Aerosmith or the Twilight Zone.
 

Mickey5150

Well-Known Member
Well, Tower of Terror was built with tremendous passion in Orlando. It was never intended for DCA. But when DCA flopped, Disney wanted a quick fix so they built a lesser version of ToT there just to stop the bleeding
Actually ToT in every other park was built without the 5th dimension room because it was the cause of a lot of downtime. Then they added another elevator shaft to increase capacity. This wasn't a quick fix, it was a plan to fix a ride.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Don't they own Avatar now? I know James Cameron owns some of it, but their original deal was with him AND Fox.

I mean, they don't own Aerosmith or the Twilight Zone.
Anything is possible, but, I believe that they pay Cameron for the right to use the franchise. I really to see JC just giving them the right especially since there is supposed to be another movie coming out. The other two aren't owned, but, the rights have been purchased.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Parades work and they have been cut down to one per resort (one in California, one in Florida). There used to be 1 per park, 2 per castle park.

Osborne Lights worked.... this is Disney, they could have kept the streets and still built Star Wars, or created a new area for the lights.
I will suspect that the reduction in parades is two fold. First, they are expensive to operate both equipment wise and labor wise. Second, they really substituted the nighttime parade for the projection shows on the castle. Those are both far less costly and are entertaining and can be changed whenever they want too. As a theme park, they still have maintained one parade, which is more then enough in my mind and added an extensive projection show.

Osborne Lights did indeed work for three months out of the year they were a strong draw for one park. The rest of the year people just wandered through the "streets" sets on their way to other things. If they are going to spend a lot of money on something taking Star Wars over a seasonal light show was a no brainer.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Incorrect, every move Iger makes is to increase short term shareholder value so he gets his bonus. Shareholders should be looking at the long term value and be quite concerned with the current trends.

Iger better hope Disney+ makes money.

I guess I was not clear enough, EVERY move Disney makes is made with the aim to increase shareholder value! Disney will do anything to increase shareholder value even if the moves are short sighted like sharp price increases and staff and services reductions at the parks for example.

As for Shareholders, shareholders have their own brains and must decide when to cash in and sell, or hold on to see if the price goes up like any other stock.

As for Disney+ , I may sign up for the initial low price, but when they double or triple the price overnight with no notice, I will drop it....
 

starri42

Well-Known Member
The other two aren't owned, but, the rights have been purchased.
Sure, but Disney doesn't care if it encourages people to buy Aerosmith concert tickets or watch the new Twilight Zone.

But Frozen Ever After will make people buy more Elsa backpacks, which leads them to seeing Frozen 2, which makes them buy more Elsa backpacks, and make a return trip to Epcot...
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
As a theme park, they still have maintained one parade, which is more then enough in my mind and added an extensive projection show.

And what about the daily parades that have been cut from DHS, DAK, and DCA?

And there was no replacement... projection shows, fireworks and night parades all run together in the past.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
And what about the daily parades that have been cut from DHS, DAK, and DCA?

And there was no replacement... projection shows, fireworks and night parades all run together in the past.
I'm not a good person to pose that question too. I saw one parade at DHS in all the years I went there and I saw one parade in Epcot in the same number of years and zero parades in DAK. They didn't have the impact that they originally had in MK. So personally, if they never had another parade in all of Disney, it would mean very little to me. However, common sense tells me that it is better to only have one in MK then repeat multiple of the same parade day after day, night after night, and year after year and decade after decade.

Along those lines they now have Fireworks in DHS, something that they had done away with for years. In Epcot there hasn't been a parade that I know of for around 20 years now. Just from observance, either Epcot or DAK lends itself easily to a quality parade. I takes to long at Epcot. It's a mile around the lagoon. At DAK, how did they choose what path to take.
 
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TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
They have a projection show with pyro effects in dhs.

So what are you trying to say? That you don’t personally care about parades so the guests that always line the streets to watch them shouldn’t miss them?
 

Janir

Well-Known Member
he reality is that the probability that some random, semi-anonymous poster online, without benefit of one of the best market research operations in the world, actually would make a better decision about something than that made by some of the most experienced and successful professionals in the world, with benefit of the best market research operations in the world, is so small as to be practically zero.

Actually that's what I see as the problem, the over-reliance on market researching and crunching numbers and not having a good feel for your market. A great marketer of yesteryear had to know his market and take the time and effort to get a feel for it and how to relate to it. Today marketers are taking numbers everywhere and have distanced themselves away from their market and having a good feel for it. Most marketers are not mathematicians and thus message numbers in ways that don't make any real world sense but look good to support some idea they want supported. The "great" CEO's and marketers learned and even "taught their market" what the market wants. Walt/Roy Disney ( I put these two as one as one needed the other to make the whole), Steve Jobs, Lee Iacocca. Having some vision isn't enough, having numbers as a substitute for knowing your market is certainly not enough.
 

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