Roll It ...Again............

"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
Original Poster
Nice start.............now take it somewhere..........and JJ.......fix this mess (TLJ)..........



SWGE and the SW Hotel are counting on you....................as am I..............
 
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ToyStoryMiss

Well-Known Member
364456
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
Original Poster
Well someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed...

I see this thread going places!

Not at all. I'm just a Big SW fan....and an as equally Big detractor of Ruin Johnson.

I've got 40+ years invested and if this movie is how they are going to tie it together and deliver the payoff. Do it right. This was a good start. Ruin would have probably ended the the saga with a Rose Tico speech on inequality, reparations, and income redistribution.
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
Not at all. I'm just a Big SW fan....and an as equally Big detractor of Ruin Johnson.

I've got 40+ years invested and if this movie is how they are going to tie it together and deliver the payoff. Do it right. This was a good start. Ruin would have probably ended the the saga with a Rose Tico speech on inequality, reparations, and income redistribution.

I too am a huge Star Wars fan and I consider The Last Jedi a great film. The themes that Rian Johnson was able to weave together and craft with beautiful filmaking was truly spectacular to see. But to each their own.
 

kurtk

Well-Known Member
Nice start.............now take it somewhere..........and JJ.......fix this mess (TLJ)..........



SWGE and the SW Hotel are counting on you....................as am I..............

I guess I am not a big enough fan. Who is that at the end? John Williams?
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
Original Poster
I too am a huge Star Wars fan and I consider The Last Jedi a great film. The themes that Rian Johnson was able to weave together and craft with beautiful filmaking was truly spectacular to see. But to each their own.

We can agree to disagree. But the one thing I think we can agree on is that TLJ created division of - arguably - the the most loyal fan base in movie history - due to the way certain characters were handled.

Sure, some of the scenes "looked" nice. But cinematography isn't the problem most of us have with TLJ.
 
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Movielover

Well-Known Member
We can agree to disagree. But the one thing I think we can agree on is that TLJ created division of - arguably - the the most loyal fan base in movie history - due to the way certain characters were handled.

Sure, some of the scenes "looked" nice. But cinematography isn't the problem most of us have with TLJ.

You should really go back and read the original reviews for Empire... The fan base has always been divided. Internet has just made it much easier to whine about it.

Oh and as for Luke in TLJ, he was perfectly in character as he had been in the original series. Really go back and study that character arc of his, not just what you remember. Luke and his story was the best thing about TLJ.
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
Original Poster
You should really go back and read the original reviews for Empire... The fan base has always been divided. Internet has just made it much easier to whine about it.

Oh and as for Luke in TLJ, he was perfectly in character as he had been in the original series. Really go back and study that character arc of his, not just what you remember. Luke and his story was the best thing about TLJ.


Again we can agree to disagree. Empire came out 3 years after ANH. You had people that were a fan of a "movie" which is different than the fandom of a saga (that included 7 cannon movies at the time TLJ was released - a spinoff - books, animated series etc.) The Luke in TLJ is not the same Luke after his training on Dagobah. Not the same Luke in RoJ.

My problem with character development (or lack of) in TLJ was that Ruin squandered everything Abrams put in place. As an example, Finn and Poe had a lot of potential when TFA ended. These were on a path to become this generation's Lando and Han.

Instead, Ruin introduces Finn as a bumbling idiot at the start of TLJ, who needs Rose Tico to set and guide his moral compass and basically save Finn from himself. Poe is reduced to a "hot head" with wild ideas that have no merit and needs to be put in his place by a laughable character in Vice Admiral Holdo - who does it "just because" as it was never really explained.

Another: Commander Ackbar should have been the one sacrificing so the others could escape. Not Laura Dern. Ackbar was killed off like a peasant. People were invested into Ackbar. Nobody was invested in Holdo. Phasma too could have been awesome. Instead.....for Ruin....she was just an afterthought.
 
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"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
Original Poster
I posted this a while back (but I'll post it again).......Ruin Johnson rebooted Spaceballs with the The Last Jedi.....


Has there ever been a ship in the Star Wars universe that has run out of gas...before TLJ? Sound familiar? The Eagle 5 from Spaceballs ran out of gas, it was part of the plot, they needed to get to Druidia........just like it was in TLJ - they needed to get to Crete)

The antagonist (Kylo Ren) a Darth Vader wannabe keeps taking off his helmet to get face time.........much like Dark Helmet in Spaceballs.

Both of these antagonists have a commander of their ship that is incompetent - Hux in SW and Colonel Sanders in Spaceballs.

Rey is "force" sensitive and does not know who her parents are......Lonestar in Spaceballs is "schwartz" sensitive and also is unsure of his parents.

L3 37 is Dot Matrix. ....................................................................(there's more- a lot more)
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
Again we can agree to disagree.
Agreed, and to trying to keep this civil

You had people that were a fan of a "movie" which is different than the fandom of a saga

Yeah but the size of the reaction that Star Wars received when it was released had never been seen before. It literally took the world by storm and cemented the blockbuster base that Jaws had started.

The Luke in TLJ is not the same Luke after his training on Dagobah. Not the same Luke in RoJ.

Luke in Empire is very impulsive. Abandoning his training with Yoda to race off to what is told to him to be a trap. He barely holds a candle to Vader in their first fight and upon learning that Vader is his father he decides to step off the platform to what would be certain death. In Return of the Jedi he still displays this impulsiveness by leaving his friends several times throughout the film (to go back to Yoda, To leave the landing party to rush off to Vader). Then during the climax of the film he allows himself to become emotionally compromised when Vader taunts him about his sister. It is here when Luke is channeling anger (something that leads to the dark side) that he is able to defeat Vader by just loosing all emotional control. After defeating Vader he realizes what had happen and essentially rejects the force. Tossing away his lightsaber in defiance and thus rising above the dark side. It is only later, before the Force Awakens, when he tries to re-establish the Jedi Order that he falls back into his impulsiveness. Sensing the dark side in Ben's mind he emotionally reacts by drawing his saber, something that he had to toss away in order to defeat evil, and like in RotJ he realizes his mistake trough reacting. However here it is not quick enough and only procedes to bring about the ruin of everything that he had built. Leading to the great moment in TLJ when Luke takes the lightsaber from Rey, remember the last time he saw this saber was in pain after having his hand cut off and easily defeated by Vader, who then had just revealed the worst possible news to Luke; now being held up to him by a a fresh face nobody asking him to come back and be THE Luke Skywalker. The Jedi that had failed so many in his impulsiveness. This all make his redemption at the end of the film that much better, When Luke walked out to face Kylo and then revealed that he was using force projection blew my mind. There was Luke, finally at peace with the Force, and it was amazing!
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
Original Poster
Agreed, and to trying to keep this civil
Agreed

Luke in Empire is very impulsive. Abandoning his training with Yoda to race off to what is told to him to be a trap. He barely holds a candle to Vader in their first fight and upon learning that Vader is his father he decides to step off the platform to what would be certain death. In Return of the Jedi he still displays this impulsiveness by leaving his friends several times throughout the film (to go back to Yoda, To leave the landing party to rush off to Vader). Then during the climax of the film he allows himself to become emotionally compromised when Vader taunts him about his sister. It is here when Luke is channeling anger (something that leads to the dark side) that he is able to defeat Vader by just loosing all emotional control. After defeating Vader he realizes what had happen and essentially rejects the force. Tossing away his lightsaber in defiance and thus rising above the dark side. It is only later, before the Force Awakens, when he tries to re-establish the Jedi Order that he falls back into his impulsiveness. Sensing the dark side in Ben's mind he emotionally reacts by drawing his saber, something that he had to toss away in order to defeat evil, and like in RotJ he realizes his mistake trough reacting. However here it is not quick enough and only procedes to bring about the ruin of everything that he had built. Leading to the great moment in TLJ when Luke takes the lightsaber from Rey, remember the last time he saw this saber was in pain after having his hand cut off and easily defeated by Vader, who then had just revealed the worst possible news to Luke; now being held up to him by a a fresh face nobody asking him to come back and be THE Luke Skywalker. The Jedi that had failed so many in his impulsiveness. This all make his redemption at the end of the film that much better, When Luke walked out to face Kylo and then revealed that he was using force projection blew my mind. There was Luke, finally at peace with the Force, and it was amazing!

Luke's impulsiveness was a character trait. It doesn't speak to character evolution. Luke evolved over the course of the initial trilogy, that doesn't mean he did not have traits that carried forward.

Abrams did a lot to build up the initial encounter with Luke and Rey. Luke now 30+ years advanced from his initial introduction to the force was set up at the end of TFA to be a Luke who had fulfilled a destiny. Maybe he did shy away from certain aspects of it and wanted to live a hermit type existence in the way Obi-Wan did. Look Hamill himself had a lot of issues with the direction Johnson took the character. Yes, he's walked some of that back. But he is still part of the franchise after all and probably had some significant pressure to do so.

Again - at the end of the day....you'll see it your way and I'll see it mine. We're allowed to disagree. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong.
 
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"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
Original Poster
Inam just hear to point out that people with no idea how the film industry works blame Ryan Johnson. JJ Abrams gets praise, yet he approved everything as an executive producer.

Some people don't like a movie, we get it.

You've just described this entire forum. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. That's just the way it works. You can agree with someone's comment, you can disagree with someone's comment, you can even present a counter to someone's comment - or you can passive aggressively just post your own.
 

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