fractal
Well-Known Member
Overall, I found this teaser to be more enjoyable than The Last Jedi.
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Star Wars Ep. 9 Thread
- Thread starter Dead2009
- Start date
Overall, I found this teaser to be more enjoyable than The Last Jedi.
Am I the only one who occasionally watches that scene in slow-motion to see Anakin get sliced up?
Tick Tock
Well-Known Member
So, umm...
Just outta curiosity, how did you feel about seeing Obi Wan as a Force ghost in the OT films?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
He’s “out”...gone....
Just like people where “out” of the theater on day 25 of the last Johnson (where it grossed $1.7 million on a flatline...which is 11 tickets in today’s dollars)
...see how easy acceptance is?
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I'm sure that made sense in your head.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
You know what I just realized? A lot of the trailers/teasers for this trilogy prominently feature the voice of Luke Skywalker. It’s almost like Disney knew what would put butts in seats but didn’t care to deliver on it. Even now that he’s dead they’re still doing it.
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
A pathetically short run bloated by presells and carry over hype?
It makes a lot of sense when you watch that steamer
Edit: I fixed it for you...more pronunciation and enunciation
Tick Tock
Well-Known Member
They've used his voice for TFA's trailer 2, and the Ep. 9 teaser released today. Any teasers / trailers for TLJ don't count since he was obviously a prominent figure in that story.
As me being someone who is incapable of viewing Ep. 9 just yet (it doesn't open here until December)... I'm not at liberties to say whether or not he's in the film. Word has it that he is, and his last name is in the title, so using his voice in the teaser seems very appropriate.
Lucasfilm’s Kathleen Kennedy on Planning “Next 10 Years” of Star Wars Films
‘Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker’ will be the last big-screen adventure for a while. But Kathy Kennedy is meeting with Rian Johnson and others to discuss a decade worth of films.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Key phrase “deliver on it.”
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Wow. They’re actually planning ahead this time? Get rid of Rian and I guess I could be on board if it’s new and exciting.Lucasfilm’s Kathleen Kennedy on Planning “Next 10 Years” of Star Wars Films
‘Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker’ will be the last big-screen adventure for a while. But Kathy Kennedy is meeting with Rian Johnson and others to discuss a decade worth of films.
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
The timing of my post yesterday was uncanny. Although in a perfect world, Emperor's return would have been kept under wraps until opening night. Now, was this planned in Lucasfilm Story Group's general outline back before Episode VII or did JJ and his co-writer decide to do it before filming IX?
Hoping his return will help improve a lot of open ended questions that came with VII & VIII, such as:
Q: What is the modus operandi of the First Order? Where did it come from? Why do they copy everything the Empire did?
A: First Order is not a new entity, but a direct continuation of the Galactic Empire, made possible by the secret survival of the Emperor (you can't have an Empire without an Emperor) and him clandestinely directing remnant military and political leaders for decades.
Q: Who is Snoke? Where did he come from? How is he so powerful? Sith Lord?
A: Snoke is proxy/puppet/projection of the surviving Emperor, who still controls & foresees all through the shell called Snoke. They are one & the same.
Q: How can they kill the main villain Snoke off so easily in the middle of film 2?
A: They only killed the proxy/shell. The Sauron-like being of Snoke/Palpatine survives.
Q: Aren't the sacrifices & happy endings of Episode VI made moot by everything we learn in Episodes VII & VIII, since the "ultimate triumph over the evil empire" in the originals just gave rise to an even worse empire and sad endings for all the heroes of the originals?
A: To a degree, yes. But having all the heroes sacrifice themselves over generations to defeat the one ultimate evil (Emperor aka Satan) is the way to give the six additional films (outside the originals) a worthy ending.
Hoping his return will help improve a lot of open ended questions that came with VII & VIII, such as:
Q: What is the modus operandi of the First Order? Where did it come from? Why do they copy everything the Empire did?
A: First Order is not a new entity, but a direct continuation of the Galactic Empire, made possible by the secret survival of the Emperor (you can't have an Empire without an Emperor) and him clandestinely directing remnant military and political leaders for decades.
Q: Who is Snoke? Where did he come from? How is he so powerful? Sith Lord?
A: Snoke is proxy/puppet/projection of the surviving Emperor, who still controls & foresees all through the shell called Snoke. They are one & the same.
Q: How can they kill the main villain Snoke off so easily in the middle of film 2?
A: They only killed the proxy/shell. The Sauron-like being of Snoke/Palpatine survives.
Q: Aren't the sacrifices & happy endings of Episode VI made moot by everything we learn in Episodes VII & VIII, since the "ultimate triumph over the evil empire" in the originals just gave rise to an even worse empire and sad endings for all the heroes of the originals?
A: To a degree, yes. But having all the heroes sacrifice themselves over generations to defeat the one ultimate evil (Emperor aka Satan) is the way to give the six additional films (outside the originals) a worthy ending.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
You Would have to assume the reason they have lame duck Kathy talking about this is because it’s part of the cover for when the last Johnson gets quietly “reassigned” or “leaves for another project”
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Anyone want to take bets now this one breaks $2.5B-$3B....
Mike S
Well-Known Member
It’ll be disappointing if he was just a puppet. I was ready and willing to accept someone new. I didn’t need nor want Palpatine to come back.
Paper straw fan
Well-Known Member
The preview did get me a little hyped, honestly I’ve been in the mindset of “Rian Johnson F’d Star Wars up so bad I’m not sure I care anymore’ but perhaps Abrams can un-fudge this enough to pull me back in some. Still unfortunately, Star Wars has been well behind in my excitement meter behind GoT and Avengers.
Seriously why’d you bother having Ackbar in it just to kill him? Someone fire Johnson into the sun.
Seriously why’d you bother having Ackbar in it just to kill him? Someone fire Johnson into the sun.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I'm torn on TLJ. It honestly felt more like a climax of the trilogy than a middle entry. Like they filmed this trilogy back to front. But I'm fascinated by TLJ something keeps me coming back. I liked the Rey and Kylo connection scenes. Reys scenes on the island are great. I've watched the film at least 3-5 times since theaters. However Rose and Holdo were terrible additions to the cast. And added nothing of value.
There's a lot to like in the movie but the ending is what lets me down the most, so many questionable story decisions from Johnson. The one thing that annoys me the most is Rose not letting Finn get his heroic sacrifice. The final battle goes on way too long. And the whole scene where Kylo fires at Luke Is kinda ridiculous. I was not happy with how Lukes story ended. Some of the characters just seem totally different from their force wakens counterparts. And I got prequel vibes from the Canto Bight sequence. Technically its a sound film the visuals are great, sound effects are great. But over all. The creative decisions made around some of the characters story arcs just didn't click for a lot of people.
There's a lot to like in the movie but the ending is what lets me down the most, so many questionable story decisions from Johnson. The one thing that annoys me the most is Rose not letting Finn get his heroic sacrifice. The final battle goes on way too long. And the whole scene where Kylo fires at Luke Is kinda ridiculous. I was not happy with how Lukes story ended. Some of the characters just seem totally different from their force wakens counterparts. And I got prequel vibes from the Canto Bight sequence. Technically its a sound film the visuals are great, sound effects are great. But over all. The creative decisions made around some of the characters story arcs just didn't click for a lot of people.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Most of the more popular fan theories about her identity WERE objectively better, or at least had elements to them that were more consistent and logical (not to mention more interesting and entertaining) than the official version. So yes many of the "made up ideas" WERE preferable.
This would end up being a rather long post to explain, so i'll put it in a spoiler to shorten it a bit. I've posted this before in my criticism of the sequel trilogy and Rey's character. To put it in short terms with all the reasons and details cut out (they're in the spoiler below), Rey's capabilities make absolutely no sense and completely violate a lot of the established rules and logic of the Star Wars franchise.
Firstly, while the execution was handled horribly in the movies, Rey's parents being "nobodies" COULD have worked out if done properly. Giving her parents significance however would have been one way to better explain why she's so powerful. "Rey Skywalker" was just one of the more common and popular theories surrounding Ep 7. But i've heard a lot of other really fun ones too such as her being a Kenobi or even a Palpatine (I liked the idea of this one personally, opens up a lot of potentially interesting facets to her character).
But her parents being "important" wasn't a hard requirement. It was previously established that the Force can manifest exceptionally powerful people from unexceptional parents if the balance of the universe was off. Anakin being the template for this. But unlike Anakin, the details around why Rey exists and is so powerful hasn't been adequately (or really at all) explained. The writers made this worse by flagrantly trying to tease her parentage to fans, but then just pulling the rug out from under them in a really incompetent attempt to pull a "twist". Her parents are nobodies, and she's apparently just some random absurdly powerful force user with no explanation. Subverting expectations should be meaningful, interesting and have an impact (like the twist with Vader in Empire Strikes Back). Not disappointing, pointless and hollow. It IS plausible that the writers are going to pull another twist and retcon her parents into being important (with Kylo Ren being a liar).
But by far the biggest and most glaring problem with Rey is her power growth. And I can't see any retcons being able to fix this. The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi apparently occur over the span of only about a week or so. Last Jedi is only about 2-3 days long. In the span of this absurdly brief period of time, Rey starts out stuck on Jakku and knowing literally nothing about the force. She has exceptionally potent reflexes and intuition, as is the norm with force sensitives. But she never consciously knew this or had control over it. Within the next few days however, she's able to block out and actually rebound Kylo Ren's mental probe back onto him to invade HIS mind instead. She mind tricks a stormtrooper moments later. And a few minutes after this manages to overpower Kylo Ren's telekinetic pull and take the lightsaber from him. After spending two days on an island with Luke Skywalker (wherein he refused to teach her), she is able to break a lightsaber in half using the force (again matching Kylo Ren's power here) and levitate hundreds of massive heavy boulders as if they were helium filled balloons...
These feats of power are absolutely absurd and a sign of horrible writing from people who either have no understanding of the rules and logic of the series (heck of logical plot progression in general), or just don't care. Powers like what Rey demonstrated requires years or decades of intense training. This is regardless of how insanely strong you are in the force such as with Anakin and Luke. In the prequel trilogy, there are lengthy timeskips that explain why characters are growing more powerful. Anakin doesn't start out being capable of mind tricks and telekinesis in Ep1. He only gains these powers in Ep 2, which occurs 10 years after the first and where he received exceptional training and experience under older and powerful jedi masters. There was another 3 year gap between EP2 and EP3.
Luke also started out only having exceptional reflexes and intuition, not able to float objects or mind trick people. EP5 was 3 years later. No master to properly train him, he still couldn't levitate objects by then. He was only able to finally do it with EXTREME difficulty when he summoned his lightsaber laying on the ground about a foot or two away. Barely pulling THAT off. He progressed more quickly on Dagobah thanks to Yoda, it's believed he was there for at least several weeks or even months. At first Luke still struggled to lift anything more than one football sized stone at a time. Eventually he was able to levitate a couple of supply boxes and R2D2 simultaneously, before abruptly leaving to try to save his friends. It should also be mentioned that these skills were nothing to Darth Vader, who wiped the floor with him. Vader incidentally was at this point a tremendously weakened shell of his former prequel self (losing half of his potential). Luke's innate potential was the same as Anakin's was pre-burning. But Vader had over 20 years of intense experience as a Sith lord (and another 20 years on top from his prior jedi training) to compensate and made a fool of Luke in that battle. It took Luke yet another year of training to compete with Vader (and tapping strongly into the dark side to actually beat him). And then of course the Emperor stepped up and took Luke down a notch. Palpatine is very strong in the force, but is still nowhere near the Skywalkers in raw potential. But he was almost 90 years old and had been a Sith lord for most his life. Training and experience are what made him so powerful.
The point is that no matter how innately strong Rey might be in the force, there is no logical reason that she should be able to use such advanced and difficult force powers without any training or experience. Untrained force sensitive people don't just wake up one day able to levitate a mountain of boulders. It takes decades of intense training (regardless of how innately powerful) to be able to do what Rey learned to do in the span of days.
Even the way Rey taps into these powers contradicts the original trilogy. When Yoda is trying to teach Luke to levitate objects at the beginning, he is struggling and failing with anything more than a single small stone. Luke tells Yoda he thinks it's impossible, and Yoda tells him his disbelief is a major reason for his failure. After Luke realizes the truth of this comment, he starts to slowly improve (though still gets his butt kicked by Vader). Rey has a more optimistic personality than Luke had, but she still clearly exhibits the same exact self-doubt as him when it came to using the force. Whenever she uses the force, she acts completely surprised and taken aback that it actually worked. Doubting yourself as she clearly does should make it impossible for her to properly use the force. It did with Luke, but it doesn't hinder her abilities for some reason. The writers either didn't understand the source material or didn't care...
But her parents being "important" wasn't a hard requirement. It was previously established that the Force can manifest exceptionally powerful people from unexceptional parents if the balance of the universe was off. Anakin being the template for this. But unlike Anakin, the details around why Rey exists and is so powerful hasn't been adequately (or really at all) explained. The writers made this worse by flagrantly trying to tease her parentage to fans, but then just pulling the rug out from under them in a really incompetent attempt to pull a "twist". Her parents are nobodies, and she's apparently just some random absurdly powerful force user with no explanation. Subverting expectations should be meaningful, interesting and have an impact (like the twist with Vader in Empire Strikes Back). Not disappointing, pointless and hollow. It IS plausible that the writers are going to pull another twist and retcon her parents into being important (with Kylo Ren being a liar).
But by far the biggest and most glaring problem with Rey is her power growth. And I can't see any retcons being able to fix this. The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi apparently occur over the span of only about a week or so. Last Jedi is only about 2-3 days long. In the span of this absurdly brief period of time, Rey starts out stuck on Jakku and knowing literally nothing about the force. She has exceptionally potent reflexes and intuition, as is the norm with force sensitives. But she never consciously knew this or had control over it. Within the next few days however, she's able to block out and actually rebound Kylo Ren's mental probe back onto him to invade HIS mind instead. She mind tricks a stormtrooper moments later. And a few minutes after this manages to overpower Kylo Ren's telekinetic pull and take the lightsaber from him. After spending two days on an island with Luke Skywalker (wherein he refused to teach her), she is able to break a lightsaber in half using the force (again matching Kylo Ren's power here) and levitate hundreds of massive heavy boulders as if they were helium filled balloons...
These feats of power are absolutely absurd and a sign of horrible writing from people who either have no understanding of the rules and logic of the series (heck of logical plot progression in general), or just don't care. Powers like what Rey demonstrated requires years or decades of intense training. This is regardless of how insanely strong you are in the force such as with Anakin and Luke. In the prequel trilogy, there are lengthy timeskips that explain why characters are growing more powerful. Anakin doesn't start out being capable of mind tricks and telekinesis in Ep1. He only gains these powers in Ep 2, which occurs 10 years after the first and where he received exceptional training and experience under older and powerful jedi masters. There was another 3 year gap between EP2 and EP3.
Luke also started out only having exceptional reflexes and intuition, not able to float objects or mind trick people. EP5 was 3 years later. No master to properly train him, he still couldn't levitate objects by then. He was only able to finally do it with EXTREME difficulty when he summoned his lightsaber laying on the ground about a foot or two away. Barely pulling THAT off. He progressed more quickly on Dagobah thanks to Yoda, it's believed he was there for at least several weeks or even months. At first Luke still struggled to lift anything more than one football sized stone at a time. Eventually he was able to levitate a couple of supply boxes and R2D2 simultaneously, before abruptly leaving to try to save his friends. It should also be mentioned that these skills were nothing to Darth Vader, who wiped the floor with him. Vader incidentally was at this point a tremendously weakened shell of his former prequel self (losing half of his potential). Luke's innate potential was the same as Anakin's was pre-burning. But Vader had over 20 years of intense experience as a Sith lord (and another 20 years on top from his prior jedi training) to compensate and made a fool of Luke in that battle. It took Luke yet another year of training to compete with Vader (and tapping strongly into the dark side to actually beat him). And then of course the Emperor stepped up and took Luke down a notch. Palpatine is very strong in the force, but is still nowhere near the Skywalkers in raw potential. But he was almost 90 years old and had been a Sith lord for most his life. Training and experience are what made him so powerful.
The point is that no matter how innately strong Rey might be in the force, there is no logical reason that she should be able to use such advanced and difficult force powers without any training or experience. Untrained force sensitive people don't just wake up one day able to levitate a mountain of boulders. It takes decades of intense training (regardless of how innately powerful) to be able to do what Rey learned to do in the span of days.
Even the way Rey taps into these powers contradicts the original trilogy. When Yoda is trying to teach Luke to levitate objects at the beginning, he is struggling and failing with anything more than a single small stone. Luke tells Yoda he thinks it's impossible, and Yoda tells him his disbelief is a major reason for his failure. After Luke realizes the truth of this comment, he starts to slowly improve (though still gets his butt kicked by Vader). Rey has a more optimistic personality than Luke had, but she still clearly exhibits the same exact self-doubt as him when it came to using the force. Whenever she uses the force, she acts completely surprised and taken aback that it actually worked. Doubting yourself as she clearly does should make it impossible for her to properly use the force. It did with Luke, but it doesn't hinder her abilities for some reason. The writers either didn't understand the source material or didn't care...
Part of the theory Mike S posted would have helped explain the issues with Rey. Rey having been a prior jedi trainee with exceptional skill, but had her memory locked away (this was actually done in a really awesome video game plot in the now non-canon Star Wars Expanded Universe material). The film makers could have even written in that it was Kylo Ren's mental probe of her in Episode 7 that was what "Awakened" her sleeping memories and also her prior training. Explaining why she gradually began to use advanced force powers afterward, some of the skills were coming back to her, along with fragments of her prior memories.
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