Pirates refurb dates released

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
I’ ll have to disagree there.

Don’t get me wrong, not saying the new scene is a work of art, I just didn’t think it was especially hard to follow especially if you already knew the scene it replaced. I think if you are in the boat and see all the hens up there it wouldn’t be all that confusing to follow.
 

VJ

Well-Known Member
The thing is.. all of the humor is gone. Hens aren't funny. Rum isn't funny. You could have easily had the pirates saying "we wants the redhead" as before then the redhead shooting at them, and the pirates changing their tune to "we wants the rum". There's so many routes they could have taken and it disappoints me that this is the final result. It's just.. bland and unnecessary. I was thinking about it and if you went with this version of the scene, you could even keep the "6 it be, 6 bottles of rum" "I'm not spongin' fer rum" etc exchange with that, it would have made sense and it would have avoided the admittedly iffy portions of the original without ruining the entire scene.

They could have edited Paul Frees' dialogue to be "What be I offered for this winsome Hench" and it's a John Hench animatronic standing there! THERE ARE SO MANY OPTIONS
 

D.Silentu

Well-Known Member
Wait a second, hens? Not pleased with the scene itself, but of all things to feature, hens? Is that some sort of veiled reference to the replaced scene, auctioning off hens? As in slang for a group of women? Perhaps I'm reading too much into this.
 
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dweezil78

Well-Known Member
The thing is.. all of the humor is gone. Hens aren't funny. Rum isn't funny. You could have easily had the pirates saying "we wants the redhead" as before then the redhead shooting at them, and the pirates changing their tune to "we wants the rum". There's so many routes they could have taken and it disappoints me that this is the final result. It's just.. bland and unnecessary. I was thinking about it and if you went with this version of the scene, you could even keep the "6 it be, 6 bottles of rum" "I'm not spongin' fer rum" etc exchange with that, it would have made sense and it would have avoided the admittedly iffy portions of the original without ruining the entire scene.

They could have edited Paul Frees' dialogue to be "What be I offered for this winsome Hench" and it's a John Hench animatronic standing there! THERE ARE SO MANY OPTIONS

Yup, agreed. My biggest gripe is how tonally different it feels from the original Marc Davis scene and it’s lack of wit. I dunno though, I do for some reason find the idea of auctioning off hens to pirates to be kinda funny in concept. :p
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Don’t get me wrong, not saying the new scene is a work of art, I just didn’t think it was especially hard to follow especially if you already knew the scene it replaced. I think if you are in the boat and see all the hens up there it wouldn’t be all that confusing to follow.
The original scene was very easy to read. Pirates rounded up the town's women to sell as brides to the pirates. Although the larger woman was up for sale first, the redhead was generating all the attention and she owned it. If you study the scene further, you can find even more details such as a lot of these women were older and seemed to be happy to be finding a husband as they never found one on the island. You'll also see, with the exception of the redhead, wearing nightgowns because they've been awoken in the middle of the night. Because she is not wearing a night gown and is instead dressed up with makeup, it's a detail that lends itself to the overall gag of her wanting and taking all the attention. Personally, I've always seen the redhead as a middle aged woman who's trying to make herself seem younger but the portrait in the caverns could easily refute this idea.

The new scene isn't difficult to read per se, but it's clunky. Pirates have rounded up the French nobles in this Spanish colonial town and are having the nobles bring the pirates their possessions to auction off. That alone, you can already start to see the cracks. For one, why are there French nobles in a Spanish colonial town? We know they're French because of their fancy attire, but why are they wearing such fancy attire if they were just pulled out of their beds in the middle of the night? You also have to ask yourself, why are the nobles even present? Logically, the pirates should have plundered their homes and then sold off what they took. The nobles should not be bringing these items to them. Also, the items they are bringing are illogical such as a chandelier and a grandfather clock. I understand their attempt at comedy, but it falls flat.

There is one aspect of this scene that seems to be overlooked and that's that the Auctioneer and Redd are holding two separate auctions right next to each other (Auctioneer selling hens and Redd selling rum). However, this makes the nobles' placement even more odd. If these two are holding separate auctions and are competing against each other, who are the nobles giving their goods to? Also why are some nobles giving them rum and hens while others are giving them busts and paintings?

The new scene simply raises so many questions that it can only answer by saying "nobody pays attention to the details, it's only a 15 second scene" which is the exact opposite of how Disney became the juggernaut it is today. With so many inconsistencies, a complete lack of humor, the removal of Paul Frees, and the disrespect shown to those who worked on this project in the 1960's, I can say nothing about this scene except that it's a disgrace. Unfortunately, I must confess, it's not enough for me to abandon Disneyland all together (only the complete removal of Pirates of the Caribbean could really ever make me do that, I think).
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
The original scene was very easy to read. Pirates rounded up the town's women to sell as brides to the pirates. Although the larger woman was up for sale first, the redhead was generating all the attention and she owned it. If you study the scene further, you can find even more details such as a lot of these women were older and seemed to be happy to be finding a husband as they never found one on the island. You'll also see, with the exception of the redhead, wearing nightgowns because they've been awoken in the middle of the night. Because she is not wearing a night gown and is instead dressed up with makeup, it's a detail that lends itself to the overall gag of her wanting and taking all the attention. Personally, I've always seen the redhead as a middle aged woman who's trying to make herself seem younger but the portrait in the caverns could easily refute this idea.

The new scene isn't difficult to read per se, but it's clunky. Pirates have rounded up the French nobles in this Spanish colonial town and are having the nobles bring the pirates their possessions to auction off. That alone, you can already start to see the cracks. For one, why are there French nobles in a Spanish colonial town? We know they're French because of their fancy attire, but why are they wearing such fancy attire if they were just pulled out of their beds in the middle of the night? You also have to ask yourself, why are the nobles even present? Logically, the pirates should have plundered their homes and then sold off what they took. The nobles should not be bringing these items to them. Also, the items they are bringing are illogical such as a chandelier and a grandfather clock. I understand their attempt at comedy, but it falls flat.

There is one aspect of this scene that seems to be overlooked and that's that the Auctioneer and Redd are holding two separate auctions right next to each other (Auctioneer selling hens and Redd selling rum). However, this makes the nobles' placement even more odd. If these two are holding separate auctions and are competing against each other, who are the nobles giving their goods to? Also why are some nobles giving them rum and hens while others are giving them busts and paintings?

The new scene simply raises so many questions that it can only answer by saying "nobody pays attention to the details, it's only a 15 second scene" which is the exact opposite of how Disney became the juggernaut it is today. With so many inconsistencies, a complete lack of humor, the removal of Paul Frees, and the disrespect shown to those who worked on this project in the 1960's, I can say nothing about this scene except that it's a disgrace. Unfortunately, I must confess, it's not enough for me to abandon Disneyland all together (only the complete removal of Pirates of the Caribbean could really ever make me do that, I think).

You're not wrong, but you've also beaten the horse to a bloody pulp.
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
You're not wrong, but you've also beaten the horse to a bloody pulp.
1521499718962.png
 

JD2000

Well-Known Member
For what it is worth, they did a better job in Orlando than in Paris, for what they were trying to accomplish. As, in Orlando, there is much better focus on what exactly is being sold, with one person holding a large grandfather clock, another holding a large portrait, etc. Just as in the original concept art, but did not actually materialize in Paris. Even the Gypsy is no more, and the other re-skins don't look as rushed. And the English dialog about feathers and hens or whatever and how everyone in-line is old now could even suggest humorous things. Wait a second! Disney better scrap this as well then, as that would be extrapolating the context of what is actually going on here, just as before.
 

JD2000

Well-Known Member
For what it is worth, they did a better job in Orlando than in Paris, for what they were trying to accomplish. As, in Orlando, there is much better focus on what exactly is being sold, with one person holding a large grandfather clock, another holding a large portrait, etc. Just as in the original concept art, but did not actually materialize in Paris. Even the Gypsy is no more, and the other re-skins don't look as rushed. And the English dialog about feathers and hens or whatever and how everyone in-line is old now could even suggest humorous things. Wait a second! Disney better scrap this as well then, as that would be extrapolating the context of what is actually going on here, just as before.
To add:

Just noticed how much they nailed the new scene in Orlando, it is absolutely identical to the concept art (not like in Paris). It really isn't bad, and surprisingly charming, in a different way. And that new dialog is very similar; so much that you could read through it as meaning the same things. And topping it off; that completely new dialog about golden eggs is fantastic, and how everyone in the line-up is of old age is both humorous and historically accurate. After all, they would have the most wealth to sell off.

4 1/2 Stars for what it became. Not that is was necessary or anything.

Okay, shoot me down now. I just said that.
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Just noticed how much they nailed the new scene in Orlando, it is absolutely identical to the concept art (not like in Paris).
The Paris version and the states version were always supposed to be different. Odd how they got the pajama part right in the concept art for Paris but it failed to make the actual scene.

1521518037013.png



It really isn't bad, and surprisingly charming, in a different way. And that new dialog is very similar; so much that you could read through it as meaning the same things. And topping it off; that completely new dialog about golden eggs is fantastic, and how everyone in the line-up is of old age is both humorous and historically accurate. After all, they would have the most wealth to sell off.

4 1/2 Stars for what it became. Not that is was necessary or anything.

Okay, shoot me down now. I just said that.

Screen Shot 2018-03-19 at 8.57.41 PM.png
 

Kiwiduck

Well-Known Member
While I was happy for the scene to be changed I am very confused by the new scenes focus on chickens and their egg laying capacities. Is there anyone other than the chicken farmer demographic who would find that funny?
I really had more faith in imagineering's ability to create something witty and sympathetic with the rest of the attraction.
 

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