Rumor Bye Bye (Tiki) Birdies?

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Was just on it Thursday and the entire theater was full. In fact, it has been the past couple of times I've seen it.

Being a local, and frequenting this attraction I can vouch for the fact that every show I've been to (which is once a month) has been at least 3/4 full.

It's simply anecdotal. I've seen it roughly 3-4 times a year, every year, for ... well, let's not go there. My experience is that on average the attraction is at most 50-65% full and often far less until just before when 78 people decide some AC sounds good (but still walk out six minutes later). I wish it were more popular, but it isn't. Part of that is the crowd, part of it is Disney downplays its existence, part of it is what WDW has become (in 1977, no one was thinking about a ride reservation at another park in two hours and a dinner reservation at another resort across property etc) with no one stopping to simply relax.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You guarantee that kids today love it? Some certainly will, but times have changed, for better or worse. This was impressive tech for the 60's, kids are tougher to impress today. My kids can take or leave it, but that doesn't mean I think it should go.

Personally I don't love the current version either, but I know many who do. Classics like this should always exist in some form, even if tweaks need to be made. Not sure what they're considering here, but there are so many others that should be prioritized over this in my opinion, especially going into the 50th.

Classics are just that. ... do people get more from Small World or Mission Space? Mansion or Little Mermaid? Peter Pan or Primeval Whirl? ... And TDO has removed other newer classics (Imagination, Horizons for two examples) for crappy replacements. Imagination has eaten up so many tens of millions of dollars for two re-dos and there are plans (possible right now) for another because they sucked so badly (no, of course no fanboi/Imagineer jokes here ... never!)

The Birdies will never be one of the most popular attractions, but that doesn't mean they are ready for retirement either.

For me, personally, it means a lot because my grandmother was very ill her final three years on Earth. And it was during this time that she made her only two visits to WDW. The first was about a year before EPCOT opened and she absolutely loved the Tropical Serenade and singing with the tiki room denizens. If I close my eyes, I can picture it. I still like it more in Anaheim ... and find the whole fanboi lovefest with the Orange Bird over the last half dozen years to be very, very odd though.
 

IanDLBZF

Well-Known Member
And TDO has removed other newer classics (Imagination, Horizons for two examples) for crappy replacements. Imagination has eaten up so many tens of millions of dollars for two re-dos and there are plans (possible right now) for another because they sucked so badly (no, of course no fanboi/Imagineer jokes here ... never!)
Of which the two you mentioned were under Eisner! Biggest jerk in Disney history IMHO.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Why should the tech matter? It's charm is in its music and characters. At least it's not CGI video on screens like Universal rides or The Shanghai Pirates. Haunted Mansion was pretty much ruined with CGI ala Constance and the new hitchhiking ghosts. Newer doesn't mean better.

I agree about tech, but that's about it. Mansion has in no way been ruined, although the absurd and pricey queue damaged it. And SDL's Pirates is widely regarded as the best attraction in the world right now. UNI also has some great screen-based attractions ... but newer in and of itself doesn't mean better, no.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I mean, one of the dresses in the new and wildly popular Dress Shop at Disney Springs has a print that features the Orange Bird...so that says something about the attraction's importance though, right?
right?! :eek:

I saw that dress in person a few weeks ago (no, I didn't buy it because then I'd have to shave my legs and all!):D and all I could think was "This was designed for a 27-year-old O-Town gal who is a CT at Disney and waits tables at an IHOP 25 hours a week and moved to the area to be closer to Mickey and has dated at least five bloggers and doesn't realize how bad she looks in that tablecloth she's wearing."
 

HonorableMention

Well-Known Member
Again, who's fault is that? Why do characters roam at every other Disney resort on the planet, even with set meet and greets, but not O-Town?

Could Disney just maybe be the cause? Maybe by turning character greets into attractions for sinister reasons? After all, if you wait two hours to get your princess a photo with Anna and Elsa you take a chunk of your day and don't notice how few REAL attractions there are.

Goofy and Alice and Pluto and etc can run around Anaheim or Tokyo (Duffy would be another matter there) because no one in their right mind would wait hours to meet characters.
This infuriated me during my last trip. Even seeing a character out made me groan because it meant an hour long wait's worth of people were being herded like cattle right in front of me.

Nothing feels natural about character meets now and it detracts from the experience. I was actually surprised to see stormtroopers and army men roaming in HS and even seeing them interact with other guests was much more enjoyable than waiting an hour or more to have Moana spew a few lines and pose for a photo.
 

IanDLBZF

Well-Known Member
You do know why they can't do that anymore at WDW, right? Because a character would show up, and would be mobbed by entitled people who wanted to be sure that their children got to meet them, even to the point of shoving their kids in front of others. Not safe for the characters at all.
Simply put, salt meet wound. For that matter, Disneyland has a few characters that can't roam (i.e. Anna and Elsa) because of their high popularity.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
If you mean far more informed... yes, you are correct.

You are ****ing into the wind here because you feel some need to try to debunk him because he can see things more than 18" away and isnt all rainbows and unicorns. When someone continually lets you down... thats what happens.

I'm sorry you dont agree with his interpretation of the company's creative direction- but that doesnt make him some troll. Try taking in the meat without focusing on the flaire... you might learn something.

@WDW1974 will tell you he and i have disagreed and sparred on many a topic... but if you think he's here just to troll... you need to work to pull that head of your out

Very true. @flynnibus and I have gone at it good here. One day I'll get him in his sleep (that's if his Mrs. doesn't do it first and who could blame her!:eek::greedy::cool:)

I have nothing else to add, but love to use these little emojis. They make me :). Or if I am talking about Bob Iger, they make me :mad:. And if I am talking about what they have done to EPCOT, they make me :cry::cry::cry:.

I think I am done. Thanks for the kind words, although I think you are likely :banghead:.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This is some of the biggest news you've dropped. Perhaps even more than just one attraction leaving, which I'm upset about, this has the potential to create massive change.

There aren't any glaringly obvious pathways to widen, so whatever they do will be destructive. This could be the most horrible period in Magic Kingdom's history.

The entirety of Adventureland is at risk. Swiss Family Treehouse is a nice contender. They could widen the Frontierland to Adventureland connectors. Would they remove Flying Carpets, or is that too obvious? Widen the path over by Golden Oak Outpost. Frontierland/Liberty Square paths could be widened by eating into the riverfront.

The best part of the park is going to come under unprecedented attack...

All I feel comfortable saying right now is that in ten years (if there is still life on the planet!), the MK is going to look like an entirely different place than it did even as recently as the late 90s/early 00s. Just BIGLY different!
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I saw that dress in person a few weeks ago (no, I didn't buy it because then I'd have to shave my legs and all!):D and all I could think was "This was designed for a 27-year-old O-Town gal who is a CT at Disney and waits tables at an IHOP 25 hours a week and moved to the area to be closer to Mickey and has dated at least five bloggers and doesn't realize how bad she looks in that tablecloth she's wearing."
No lie, I thought something very, very similar. That's what happens when you've worked for the Mouse.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
For whatever reason, I never connected with the birds in either iteration. Once was enough, let alone three or four times over the last 20 years.

But I rarely skip CoP or CBJ.

There's no right or wrong answer, folks – either you like it or you don't – just like broccoli.

That said, I kind of like the idea of making it a food service place and keeping the birds, and just making them perform briefly every 15 minutes or so.

Not that anyone at Disney is listening to me LOL.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Of which the two you mentioned were under Eisner! Biggest jerk in Disney history IMHO.

I personally got to know Michael a bit. I would not in any way, shape or form call him what you did. And I don't want to have the discussion again here (feel free to read the 698 posts I wrote about it in other threads). But what happened at EPCOT to those attractions was awful and never should have. Michael realized the mistake with Imagination 2.0 during previews in quite obscene terms as I know one of the people who rode through it with him when he screamed at them asking "What did you do with my (blanking) $53 million?!?!" But what happened, happened. You could blame many people for allowing those two attractions to be destroyed including then EPCOT VP and now current WDW Prez George Kalogridis.
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
I personally got to know Michael a bit. I would not in any way, shape or form call him what you did. And I don't want to have the discussion again here (feel free to read the 698 posts I wrote about it in other threads). But what happened at EPCOT to those attractions was awful and never should have. Michael realized the mistake with Imagination 2.0 during previews in quite obscene terms as I know one of the people who rode through it with him when he screamed at them asking "What did you do with my (blanking) $53 million?!?!" But what happened, happened. You could blame many people for allowing those two attractions to be destroyed including then EPCOT VP and now current WDW Prez George Kalogridis.
If that 53 million number is accurate. That's the worst money spent in theme park history. I would have said even more in his shoes.
 

yoda_5729

Well-Known Member
I posted earlier on here, about my opinion and disappointment in this rumor. Hopefully they reconsider, as I completely understand the reasoning behind wanting new and edgy stuff. Whether that be a thrill ride, or anything. The risk however, and there is one that many who want more and new stuff do not realize, is that what you put in it's place may be no more magical or even entertaining or more of a draw then what is already there. I cited Mission Space, though that may not have been completely fair, as the ride is just not my type of attraction. As I recall though when they built it, it was a very expensive, state of the art ride that was supposed to blow the doors off Epcot, and for awhile I think it actually did that. However, I don't forsee that time as being now. I think most would agree that Soarin, with it's popularity and the fact that most age groups can experience it and enjoy it has actually succeeded in what Mission Space was designed for. In ways I'm going to be critical of Mission Space, and I really don't have a ton against it, but more simply using it as an example that it is no way the most guilty example of.

Many thrill rides are significant because of some breakthrough that they have achieved, whether it be corkscrews or speed or height or launch, or any other means you wish to view them through. What happens to those rides when other companies create rides that surpass them. Rides are always evolving, and if Disney World made the fastest roller coaster on the planet, 5 years from then it likely wouldn't be in the top five. What is it after that? What is it when it's just another coaster. I've seen rides at local theme parks, rides that were major draws become scrap metal because the main reason for their existence was completely shattered by other newer rides. Unless of course the coaster wasn't just another, like Space Mountain. Pirates of the Caribbean and it's a small world could be competitive for being the single most major attraction ever unveiled at any theme park in the world. However, their ride is just a boat. Neither ride, was ever the fastest moving, nor the tallest reaching. You may go 0 to 4 in a half a minute. You are in the exact same boats on both attractions, yet the artistry and attention to details, and the emersive songs and joy they bring guests is uncalculble. Both rides that have nothing to do with any Disney movie or cartoon before they were unveiled, and both have become icons of the theme park genre. The Tiki Room birds have an artistry to them, that many of the modern rides do not. Small world is a living tribute to Mary Blair and her wonderful artistry with colors. To remove that, would be like going to a museum and taking a mural off the wall and stating no one will ever see it, ever again. Sure, you can always put up another painting, but whether it will be anything of note is questionable. It is true there are multiple Tiki Rooms, so there is that, but I get disheartened when people complain about something they can just ignore. When I've been in an art museum there are dozens if not hundreds of pieces of artwork I am not impressed with, nor do they have any great meaning to me. Personally, I think I would be out of line to go inside it, and then complain about how the individual paintings in the place that I disliked should be removed or changed. Yes, the idea and wonder of what could be put in the attractions spot is limitless, and it could be great, but it also could be the newest version of Imagination, or Stitch's Great Escape. Building a new attraction, like Rock n Roller Coaster back in the day was more beneficial, as at the very least you weren't denying fans something they loved, for the betterment of other fans. The ideal, and even logical plan should be, if at all possible, build the new, and keep the old. Adding Guardians of the Galaxy to Twilight Zone Tower of Terror risks ticking off some people, as you are denying them the chance to ride their favorite ride, solely to impress or interest another group of fans that may be larger or may be smaller (with some crossover interests). Why not just keep ToT, and build Guardians. That I think is more the point to all these complaints. When an attraction is removed, it's not like a movie that leaves movie theaters for other newer movies but is still available. It literally is, that the ride will no longer be available to be experienced ever again, at least at WDW. It's not the fear, disinterest, or even uneasiness of what may be to come, it's the loss of not having something you treasured be available in any way, shape or form at WDW. I made a comparison to Casablanca before, and how people can always watch it on their TVs. Imagine if that wasn't the case though, and the film studio announced that they were releasing Casablanca or The Godfather to movie theaters one last time, and that it would never be shown ever again, nor would it be available for purchase or streaming. It would simply be gone. If you weren't born before then, then you are out of luck, or if you want to experience it again, once again, you're out of luck. How would that make some people feel? Thankfully movies are things we have the benefit of enjoying and reliving throughout the years.

Disney has always been the best parks in the world for being enjoyable for everyone. Never in there did I say everything would be enjoyed by everyone, but that everyone can find something to enjoy. Most theme parks are stacked to the gills with thrill rides, and unless you are high schooler or young adult, you quickly get bored with the options, and have to go to the gift shops, midway games or restaurants to find any reason for even being there. Obviously for thrill ride junkies, they love that, which is great for them. Disney World was not designed for thrill seekers. It was designed for families. I don't even mean a slam against thrill rides as they are obviously very important for theme parks to have, and have quite a few differing styles. The concept though of an attraction being outdated or lame is one that once again is difficult to accept. Hollywood has long since said that the western as a film genre is basically dead, having moved on to sci fi, even though many of the movies can be traced back to westerns. Does that mean Frontierland should be completely abandoned? I mean, the wild west as an adventure isn't really that popular of a concept anymore? No, it shouldn't because it's an intrical part of Disney World, and has given rise to such blockbusters as Splash Mountain and Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, not to mention Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness.

Disney loves to talk about "magic" as it's obvious due to it's connections to fantasy, and the way guests experience the parks. Many an entertainment critic has sat down and tried to explain the "it factor" when talking about entertainers or actors. For every reason under the sun, those that they analyze should come up short, should not even really be in the same sentence as others, who are more obviously knowledgable or experienced. However some unique people have "IT." That's the magic Disney is talking about. For many who watched Elvis, or Hendrix, or Marilyn, people who at the very least, early on in their careers were not students of the fields they became legends in, but what they possessed was....magic. The Enchanted Tiki Room has that. It has that more (at least for now) then Soarin, more then Toy Story Mania, more then the Wizarding World of Harry Potter does. This is not the first time some guests have become tired or bored with the classic attraction. However, many still love it. Even when people called it lame, other people still voiced their love for it, as witnessed by this very thread. What will happen when Soarin is called just a screen? What will happen when Toy Story Mania is just considered another attraction? How much magic do they really have, or are they a success because of the hip new temporary wonder of them? All of those mentioned above may very well have the magic we haven't even seen, and last for decades and have "IT." If they do, they'll earn being in the same sentence as that little bird show, which was designed by the single most major person in theme park history. There was a time, Body Wars was the go to, thrill ride at Epcot. We all know what happened to it.

There is a famous oldies song, "Don't know what you've got till it's gone, they paved paradise, and put up a parking lot." There are some that might mention that in relation to a handful of attractions and the replacements of attractions that have surfaced in the parks. That "magic" though, that "it factor" is easily one of the most taken for granted qualities, but also the most difficult to recapture. The whole concept of it is that it is rare or odd that something become that important, and yet for what ever reason, it does. I mentioned Mission Space above, and for all the money Disney threw at it, I'm not certain it's any better for Epcot then Horizons was in the long term. Sure Mission Space probably has more people go through it, but many flat out cannot experience it, as it's a health problem for many. Many, more then I've heard for any other Disney ride (except possibly the teacups), actually do go on the ride and have a bad experience as they get sick on it. Many look to the age of Horizons and see stale and old rides that were in need of being put out of their misery. I saw something else. I saw rides that could be fun, and an experience that the whole family could enjoy together. The whole family cannot go on Mission Space, and that's assuming all would even want to. Horizons may be boring to some, but it wasn't going to make anyone sick or risk any other health concerns. If you didn't like it, then go ride the thrill rides, which are now there thankfully. That's why I find the frustrations in removing attractions and not simply adding more. Dang near every carnival, zoo, and even some malls have carousels now, and I can't honestly remember if I ever went on the Disney World one in my lifetime. That being said, I'm not demanding it get taken out to pasture because it's past it's prime, and something else could go there. It was true the Epcot of the 80s needed thrills, but ripping out old attractions for new can bite Disney, as if the new one doesn't live up to hype, or have a great shelf life, they have two problems. The ride that's currently there, and the ride that was there beforehand, that isn't anymore.

When Looking at The Enchanted Tiki Room, it has a lot of reasons as to why it is significant. Mission Space not so much. Mission Space has the ride technology for it's time and the thrill. Technically Tiki Room has the ride technology for it's time, the original iconic theme song, some entertainment (some like it more then others as that's subjective), and is directly tied to the theme park it's in, Walt Disney himself, and the history of the Disney company. Mission Space was a ridiculously expensive attraction when they built it, but the times caught up to it, and though I'm sure some still undoubtingly like it, I'm not certain Soarin' and Test Track wouldn't beat it for popularity. More and more guests come on here, talking about the 80s and their love for Horizons, I haven't met too many people who have an attachment to Mission Space, for whatever reason.

Ultimately, is Adventureland bad, or negative because of the Tiki Room? It fits the theme of the area, even arguably helping to define the area. If you hate it, then you can simply ignore it. If you've never experienced it, then you should at least give it one shot and and if you hate it, you can spend that time next time waiting in line at Pirates or for a dole whip, or doing anything else you want. If your entire vacation to Disney World is ruined because of an 11 minute show, I don't know what I can say about that. Many people wait in lines for 60+minutes to meet a character. That's not watching a show, that's simply standing in line. Was the waiting in line, or waiting for a parade, or fireworks all that much more entertaining? Most can often walk into Tiki Room, which at Magic Kingdom should be a benefit, as it's reliable and easy to experience. I can see if you waited in line for an hour to experience the Tiki Room how some might be a bit hostile towards the attraction, but I haven't seen anything close to that in years. The show is still longer in duration then many of the rides, so for your wait time moneys worth,it is quite useful and beneficial. If every ride in the park has a 20 minute or more wait time, you are going to have a lot of people losing interest, as some avoid lines like the plague. Tiki Room, Peoplemover, Country Bears and Small World all serve purposes, just like all the countless meet and greets. Unlike other rides, where some debate why a specific ride is in a specific land, or if the ride should exist at all, The Tiki Room fits it's location perfectly, and has earned and deserved the right to be there. Many attractions have not reached that milestone, as I'm sure some would suggest that every attraction can't be saved. The Tiki Room's history should, in my humblest opinion, preserve it.
 
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DisneyGentlemanV2.0

Well-Known Member
Well, they basically removed 75% of all AAs on property with the wholesale destruction of all the original EPCOT attractions. They don't like them, they don't want them except in select attractions/situations.
I've always felt this was the real reason behind the trashing of Future World. Screens and triangles don't have moving parts to maintain.
 

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