News Disney CEO Bob Chapek suggests price hikes are coming to the parks thanks to guest demand

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
You think $lappie cares about peon park-goers? This is who he cares about:


"Unlock further value" by... you guessed it! Cutting costs! Suspending the cash dividend (which I thought was already suspended), spin off ESPN, and buy out Hulu sooner. 🤦‍♂️ He seems to think that streaming is the be-all-end-all for media companies.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Lol I remember my husband saying to me on the 4th night "uhm E, you realize we're spending 50 dollars a night on desserts".
I feel like that ended up being the case with my last trip, just with cocktails! To be fair, that's only about 2 cocktails at Disney prices...

There have been many changes over the years, some for the good and some for the bad. Our best trips were the handful of years prior to the COVID shutdown because there was just so much to do at WDW - that's why we didn't concentrate all that much on how many rides we could do in a day. We enjoyed everything about the resort as a whole, especially the choices that allowed members of our family to do their own thing during the day and then meet up with us for the experiences that appealed to everyone.
....

The one major change that does not bode well for keeping us as loyal super fans is the recent park reservations, Genie+, ILL, limited park hopper mess. If they decide to keep that system and raise the price to make it more workable, we will go somewhere else for our family vacations. That change may work for others, but not us.
The move to regulating and programming guests' time is also a big turn-off for me. I also like to experience WDW in a more relaxed fashion and am more interested in enjoying my time than hitting every ride. This is where WDW has always come into its own among the resorts when travelling in a group, as everyone can kind of drift off and do their own thing and then, say, meet up for dinner in the evening. They really seem to want to make that close to impossible in the future, particularly if they move ahead with the idea that you not only have to reserve your first park for the day but also the park to which you plan to hop later in the day. At that point, I really couldn't be bothered with it all, to be honest.
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
You're probably right about Disney not spending a lot of time and effort catering to 5% of its customers. That would likely be true of most businesses.

Under your designation, I would call myself a "super fan" of WDW but not a Disney "snob." We've been visiting pretty much every year for nearly 40 years but I couldn't care less about the names in the Main Street windows.

There have been many changes over the years, some for the good and some for the bad. Our best trips were the handful of years prior to the COVID shutdown because there was just so much to do at WDW - that's why we didn't concentrate all that much on how many rides we could do in a day. We enjoyed everything about the resort as a whole, especially the choices that allowed members of our family to do their own thing during the day and then meet up with us for the experiences that appealed to everyone.

Our trips since COVID (May 2021, October 2021 and April 2022) have not been as enjoyable, but I'm waiting to see how much of that will change. If you go back through these threads, you will see many posts that were just flat-out wrong in predicting that Disney would not bring back parades, fireworks, trams, etc. "because people will still pay without them."

The one major change that does not bode well for keeping us as loyal super fans is the recent park reservations, Genie+, ILL, limited park hopper mess. If they decide to keep that system and raise the price to make it more workable, we will go somewhere else for our family vacations. That change may work for others, but not us.
Calling us all Disney "snobs" is just a fun way to call us highly demanding super-fans. :)

Its so sad for me to say this but I have to believe that so much of Disney's money goes into fine details that the vast majority of their guests are completely oblivious to...and just dont care.

I have a big habbit of striking up conversations with strangers all around me when standing in lines. I try to guage the kinds of guests Disney has. I talk about parks and trivia and stuff like that. Im amazed by how little people know about simple commonly known things by us.

Most people just want pictures at the castle. They want to ride Pirates or Mansion or Jungle Cruise etc... They dont know any history and dont really care anyway. They think CoP is "boring" and dont bother to understand the message behind attractions like that or Presidents or American Adventure.

As it stands...."today"...WDW doesnt need hard-core super fans because they are mobbed and jam packed with casual fans that dont ask the tough questions that "we" here always do.

There is sooooo much EASY, low hanging fruit to grab...Disney doesnt need to struggle with a tall ladder to reach our fruit at the top. Their buckets are already full....
 
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dreday3

Well-Known Member
Calling us all Disney "snobs" is just a fun way to call super-fans.

Its so sad for me to say this but I have to believe that so much of Disney's money goes into fine details that the vast majority of their guests are completely oblivious to...and just dont care.

I have a big habbit of striking up conversations with strangers all around me when standing in lines. I try to guage the kinds of guests Disney has. I talk about parks and trivia and stuff like that. Im amazed by how little people know about simple commonly known things by us.

Most people just want pictures at the castle. They want to ride Pirates or Mansion or Jungle Cruise etc... They dont know any history and dont really care anyway. They think CoP is "boring" and dont bother to understand the message behind attractions like that or Presidents or American Adventure.

As it stands...."today"...WDW doesnt need hard-core super fans because they are mobbed and jam packed with casual fans that dont ask the tough questions that "we" here always do.

There is sooooo much low hanging fruit to grab...Disney doesnt need to struggle with a tall ladder to reach our fruit at the top. Their buckets are already full....

Why do you try and gauge the kind of guests Disney has? If someone doesn't know your trivia, you quietly judge them?
Don't ask my husband anything, he just likes to go because we have so much fun there. 😂

Low hanging fruit....your whole post....sometimes "super-fans" (of anything) are obnoxious.
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
Why do you try and gauge the kind of guests Disney has? If someone doesn't know your trivia, you quietly judge them?
Don't ask my husband anything, he just likes to go because we have so much fun there. 😂

Low hanging fruit....your whole post....sometimes "super-fans" (of anything) are obnoxious.
Not "judging"...just doing my own "research" to gain a tiny bit of insight from my perspective.

There is nothing wrong with casual fans...no no. Their dollar is just a valuable as the biggest super fan's dollar. ;-)
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Street kids from nearby Raleigh St, Dover Shores, Pine ( Crime ) Hills area at times venture to City Walk to have their fun. These areas are not on the tourist trail but there are nearby to Universal Orlando.
Not a whole hell of a lot stopping them from springs either…

Except being blocked on the path by “healthy” people in mouse ears.

If you’re scared of Orlando…you need to speak to someone.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Calling us all Disney "snobs" is just a fun way to call us highly demanding super-fans. :)

Its so sad for me to say this but I have to believe that so much of Disney's money goes into fine details that the vast majority of their guests are completely oblivious to...and just dont care.

I have a big habbit of striking up conversations with strangers all around me when standing in lines. I try to guage the kinds of guests Disney has. I talk about parks and trivia and stuff like that. Im amazed by how little people know about simple commonly known things by us.

Most people just want pictures at the castle. They want to ride Pirates or Mansion or Jungle Cruise etc... They dont know any history and dont really care anyway. They think CoP is "boring" and dont bother to understand the message behind attractions like that or Presidents or American Adventure.

As it stands...."today"...WDW doesnt need hard-core super fans because they are mobbed and jam packed with casual fans that dont ask the tough questions that "we" here always do.

There is sooooo much EASY, low hanging fruit to grab...Disney doesnt need to struggle with a tall ladder to reach our fruit at the top. Their buckets are already full....
To be fair, I think the guests you are describing are the people for whom the parks have always been designed. The idea has never been that people are supposed to pour over and study the finer details, but rather that the details add up to a compelling and convincing environment that allows for a suspension of disbelief. We've all become fans and many have read up on the history, but that's not because the intention behind the park is that you are supposed to understand some history or lore to appreciate it. As the theming works on a more subconscious level, I don't think guests need to necessarily register the details for them to be worth including.

Recently, WDI has gone more in the direction of long-winded, complicated backstories that sometimes literally require reading to be understood. That, I think, misunderstands what has always made Disney theming work so well.
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
Absolutely not.

It’s that bonuses are gimmicks and BS. $1 an hour is more lucrative and permanent…

The only “bonuses” worth it are so large I believe you cheat on your taxes by default.

Anyone falling for a hiring bonus is under the IQ you want to work for you…like a litmus test.
What’s that old saying…”You don’t get something for nothing”…it’s an angle, pure and simple
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Calling us all Disney "snobs" is just a fun way to call us highly demanding super-fans. :)

Its so sad for me to say this but I have to believe that so much of Disney's money goes into fine details that the vast majority of their guests are completely oblivious to...and just dont care.

I have a big habbit of striking up conversations with strangers all around me when standing in lines. I try to guage the kinds of guests Disney has. I talk about parks and trivia and stuff like that. Im amazed by how little people know about simple commonly known things by us.

Most people just want pictures at the castle. They want to ride Pirates or Mansion or Jungle Cruise etc... They dont know any history and dont really care anyway. They think CoP is "boring" and dont bother to understand the message behind attractions like that or Presidents or American Adventure.

As it stands...."today"...WDW doesnt need hard-core super fans because they are mobbed and jam packed with casual fans that dont ask the tough questions that "we" here always do.

There is sooooo much EASY, low hanging fruit to grab...Disney doesnt need to struggle with a tall ladder to reach our fruit at the top. Their buckets are already full....
In reality that's pretty much any "super" fan of any sport or hobby.
My dad was a hardcore Yankee fan, lol went into mourning when the Yankees moved to a new stadium, could quote stats and history all day long, my mom?? She just wanted a fun day at a ball game.
And I'm amazed at what hard core star wars fans will have a 5 hr long discussion on.

Now the question becomes could the parks survive with "only" hard-core fans?? Doubt it.
Now if I'm the CEO and I have a fiduciary responsibility to the board and the shareholders its easy to see why they lean toward maximizing profit.

I do have to admit, I'm not sure I want to go on vacation to ask the "tough" questions so I'm probably enjoying the success of past achievements, for example there is a discussion about "sight-lines" which evidently is a big thing. Lol I had to look up what the term meant and too this day after 20 years of trips can't say if anyone in my family ever noticed them.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I do have to admit, I'm not sure I want to go on vacation to ask the "tough" questions so I'm probably enjoying the success of past achievements, for example there is a discussion about "sight-lines" which evidently is a big thing. Lol I had to look up what the term meant and too this day after 20 years of trips can't say if anyone in my family ever noticed them.

I don't expect them to matter to everyone, or even to most people, but just wanted to say that not noticing sight-lines is kind of the point! Usually if you do notice them it's because there's something there that just doesn't belong, so it attracts your attention.

The Harmonious barges at EPCOT are a good example -- of course they still don't bother everyone, but there have been numerous people just on this forum that said they didn't think it would be a big deal/didn't think they'd really care until they actually saw them in person.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Seems like people need a refresher...

Too often people are like "Why wouldn't Disney want more people"
or buy into the line "Disney is doing this for guest satisfaction"

Don't let half truths confuse you. Let's look at the basic principals in play. These numbers are artifical, but the actual numbers themselves don't matter, it's the relative trends that matter and are true.

Let's look at Guest Satisfaction... in general, people love non-busy parks! Nothing to get in their way, they can do all they want...
Screen Shot 2022-08-16 at 5.33.52 PM.png

So yes if totally listening to guests, Disney should not 'over stuff' the parks.

But.. more people = more money right? Disney should always want more people! Yes, that is true.. but only to an extent. Eventually you hit congestion... and people simply can't spend as easily as they could when things were less crowded. So revenue vs crowd isn't always a 1:1 straight line.. eventually you start choking your own ability to sell.

Screen Shot 2022-08-16 at 5.37.12 PM.png

Think about a simple ODV cart... it has a max # of sales it can do an hour. Once the # of customers exceeds that you don't make more money, you just have more of a wait. This happens across the board with crowds limiting movement, increasing waits, etc. Literally if you spend more time in lines, it reduces your opportunities to spend.

So clearly... Being busy, but not TOO busy makes sense yeah, especially if you are aiming to keep your customers happy.

But there is another monster hiding in the corner... OpEx. What does it cost to run the operation. Something that for obvious reasons, they want to keep as low as possible.
Screen Shot 2022-08-16 at 5.42.40 PM.png


Thing is.. the park has a really high minimum cost to open the place and staff it as minimially as possible. For instance, a ride like BTMRR has a minimum staff needed to run it, no matter if there are 5, or 20 people on each train. As such, Operating costs are basically fixed at the bottom of the chart and don't keep scaling down with crowds.

This is why Disney is willing to stuff the offseason with discounted admission and other activities to boost the minimum crowd levels in parks. It's also why the park hopping rule helps the lesser parks. It keeps more people in a park that may otherwise defect to another park... keeping the utilization of your park higher. After all, you're paying to open it, you want to USE that capacity.

But OpEx isn't flat, nor is it linear. Eventually excessive crowds drive costs up higher and higher. Bigger crowds take more people to manage. Bigger crowds generate more trash, more load on just about everything. So as you run near your upper limits, costs actually start to climb FASTER than they did previously. Running at the ragged edge is very labor expensive for Disney. It also strains other systems like upkeep, maintenance, etc.

So for Disney... Opex wise they want people to make it worthwhile to run... but not TOO many people that it starts requiring them to spend more and more money for less and less gain.

This is what leads to our 'sweet spot' of operations.

If you were to just focus on Guest Satisfaction... running the park with the smallest crowds would be the best! But reality is the business is chasing revenue and profits. So in reality they want as many people as possible as that in general will drive higher revenues.

But that's the catch... more people seems like easily more revenue.. but as we mentioned before you start to block yourself when things get saturated and congested. So why does Disney care, 5% is still better than 0% right?? They care because of the Opex increase. The business is measured not just by how much money they bring in, but by how much they spend to do it. That's what really drives profits. And spending is usually hard cash out... which can be heavily scrutinized. And when people are chasing 'how to make more' its much easier to just DO LESS (aka SPEND LESS) than it is create something (generate new demand).

If someone tells you 'make us more money, without spending any more money than you have' -- you will be chasing efficiencies and how to reduce costs.

This is really what drives Disney trying to 'cap attendance'. It's not to make your vacation better -- It's because when the parks are stuffed you spend less. Your opportunities to spend are reduced. You are frustrated so you don't make whimsical purchases as easily. And on top of that, they are spending MORE in OpEx per guest than when the crowds are less.

This is what leads to our sweetspot or Goldilocks zone. Disney wants as many people in the park as possible to drive the revenue line as high as possible... until the costs and revenues start to decline. So you end up with the zone where attendance is high enough to offset minimimum operating costs... but not too high to drive costs higher than necessary.
Screen Shot 2022-08-16 at 5.51.27 PM.png


They want to limit attendance so they can shape customer demand into visiting patterns that keep the parks operating in the Goldilocks zone as much as possible.

Get as many people in, to drive revenue, until the point where costs are rising faster than revenue. That's how they optimize margins and what Bob is doing. He's not trying to make your vacation better - he's trying to keep his engine running at the best possible operating point.

It just so happens guests also like not dealing with maximum crowds... so they can 'sell' that story to the public and it sounds great to them.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
In reality that's pretty much any "super" fan of any sport or hobby.
My dad was a hardcore Yankee fan, lol went into mourning when the Yankees moved to a new stadium, could quote stats and history all day long, my mom?? She just wanted a fun day at a ball game.
And I'm amazed at what hard core star wars fans will have a 5 hr long discussion on.

Now the question becomes could the parks survive with "only" hard-core fans?? Doubt it.
Now if I'm the CEO and I have a fiduciary responsibility to the board and the shareholders its easy to see why they lean toward maximizing profit.

I do have to admit, I'm not sure I want to go on vacation to ask the "tough" questions so I'm probably enjoying the success of past achievements, for example there is a discussion about "sight-lines" which evidently is a big thing. Lol I had to look up what the term meant and too this day after 20 years of trips can't say if anyone in my family ever noticed them.
…boy, he’d hate that the Red Sox have 101% owned their arses for 20 years, wouldn’t he? 😎
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Not a whole hell of a lot stopping them from springs either…

Except being blocked on the path by “healthy” people in mouse ears.

If you’re scared of Orlando…you need to speak to someone.
Value my life got lost pre GPS and ended up there at night. You'd be too if you heard gunshots and police activity. Poor assumption on scared.
 
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erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
The idea has never been that people are supposed to pour over and study the finer details, but rather that the details add up to a compelling and convincing environment that allows for a suspension of disbelief.
Exactly. It's the sum of the parts. The theming and details might not be something the average guest could really point out. But when you add it all up, subconsciously it separates Disney from everyone else. Also, the details can be what makes that once or twicer a lifer. As you go, you discover these details and it adds that little cherry on top.
but just wanted to say that not noticing sight-lines is kind of the point! Usually if you do notice them it's because there's something there that just doesn't belong, so it attracts your attention.
Yup. It's like they say in sports, when you don't notice the refs, they're doing their job. Like my above statement, it all adds up and sets Disney apart.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Not a whole hell of a lot stopping them from springs either…

Except being blocked on the path by “healthy” people in mouse ears.

If you’re scared of Orlando…you need to speak to someone.
Springs has its share of problems from time-to-time but I think the style and setup of it these days is more towards "mature" (with younger people in tow) along with the drama club kids (which, if you knew me, you'd know is a loving remark and not a knock) where Citywalk feels like Times Square at night - totally different vibe with a much more lively crowd.

I haven't done HHN in years due to a young one but when I went, they used to advertise that our ticket would also get us into the clubs in Citywalk for free. I never understood why someone would leave a hard ticket event like HHN early to go to the clubs there but thinking about it, the audience for HHN is a lot more likely to hit up those clubs after than the ones at MNSSHP.

The Universal stuff all the way around is geared more towards young adults looking for slightly edgier and less kid-friendly stuff and frankly, if I were a teen in Orlando, Citywalk would look a lot more fun to me so I get why they would have a little more trouble than Disney with locals - especially with the demise of PI.

I never did PI when it was ticketed and spent very little time there after* but I can see how getting rid of it probably shed Disney a ton of headaches.


*If you're curious what I looked like when I was younger, just go to https://www.thesaurus.com, type in the word "cool" and then scroll down to the antonyms section. You'll se a picture of me from my early twenties which is still pretty much how I look today only more out of shape and with less hair.
 
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MrPromey

Well-Known Member
... Recently, WDI has gone more in the direction of long-winded, complicated backstories that sometimes literally require reading to be understood. That, I think, misunderstands what has always made Disney theming work so well.
It's the classic example in writing of show rather than tell whenever possible.
 
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fgmnt

Well-Known Member
It's the classic example in writing of show rather than tell whenever possible.
All of the money spent on research trips when a simple walk to the end of Sunset Blvd at DHS displays exactly how to present an immersive narrative on a high-end thrill ride.

The queues of FoP and RoTR get it pretty right, but the multi-part preshow experience that inundates you with exposition like on FoP or drags it out across 4 rooms like RoTR are tough. I will say that at least these two attractions are a lot more experiential and tickles the brain a lot better than what was put together in New Fantasyland or TSL.

Runaway Railway is probably the closest contender to ToT for a modern "complete E ticket attraction".

ToT was built a quarter century before Runaway Railway.
 

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