News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lentesta]

I'd argue the bond issue still remains. It's quite a different situation between "the bond issuer controls the revenue source" and "the bond issuer does not control the revenue source".

Is it this? Section 166.021(4) (emphasis mine):

(4) The provisions of this section shall be so construed as to secure for municipalities the broad exercise of home rule powers granted by the constitution. It is the further intent of the Legislature to extend to municipalities the exercise of powers for municipal governmental, corporate, or proprietary purposes not expressly prohibited by the constitution, general or special law, or county charter and to remove any limitations, judicially imposed or otherwise, on the exercise of home rule powers other than those so expressly prohibited. However, nothing in this act shall be construed to permit any changes in a special law or municipal charter which affect the exercise of extraterritorial powers or which affect an area which includes lands within and without a municipality or any changes in a special law or municipal charter which affect the creation or existence of a municipality, the terms of elected officers and the manner of their election except for the selection of election dates and qualifying periods for candidates and for changes in terms of office necessitated by such changes in election dates, the distribution of powers among elected officers, matters prescribed by the charter relating to appointive boards, any change in the form of government, or any rights of municipal employees, without approval by referendum of the electors as provided in s. 166.031. Any other limitation of power upon any municipality contained in any municipal charter enacted or adopted prior to July 1, 1973, is hereby nullified and repealed.

That seems to me to say that the RCID electors (that is, Disney) would have to vote in favor of DeSantis' plan to allow the state to take over the RCID in order to change the RCID's powers.

 

[LAKid53]

My interpretation of the Home Rule Act referenced in the Floridia Constitution is that it applies to specific counties:

(e) CONSOLIDATION AND HOME RULE. Article VIII, Sections 9, 10, 11 and 24, of the Constitution of 1885, as amended, shall remain in full force and effect as to each county affected, as if this article had not been adopted, until that county shall expressly adopt a charter or home rule plan pursuant to this article. All provisions of the Metropolitan Dade County Home Rule Charter, heretofore or hereafter adopted by the electors of Dade County pursuant to Article VIII, Section 11, of the Constitution of 1885, as amended, shall be valid, and any amendments to such charter shall be valid; provided that the said provisions of such charter and the said amendments thereto are authorized under said Article VIII, Section 11, of the Constitution of 1885, as amended.​

Section 9 applies to Jacksonville and Duval County.

Section 10 applies to Key West and Monroe County.

Section 11 applies to Dade County.

Section 24 applies to Hillsborough County.

Am I misunderstanding something?

The charters existing under the 1885 were "grandfathered" into the 1968 Constitution. However provisions were made for the voters to amend those charters.

 

[flynnibus]

Still, he runs into the issue of Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake, which are incorporated cities. Maybe he gets around those with this:

(a) ESTABLISHMENT. Municipalities may be established or abolished and their charters amended pursuant to general or special law. When any municipality is abolished, provision shall be made for the protection of its creditors.
The Floridia Constitution is complex. Presumably, someone is advising DeSantis that there are ways to accomplish what he (says) he wants to do.

'...pursuant to general or special law' -- Which is why LAKid53 keeps referencing Ch 166 - because that is the relevant general law already in place. They can change that existing statue of course.. but it has much wider impacts.

Ch 165 also defines the process of creating the municipalities, so to your question about creating a new county, etc.. you can look there. You can see the basic timelines do not support the govenor's timeline..

At least the existing general law of chapters 165 and 166 are more well thoughtout then their special session law of just 'strike it down'

"
(3) The dissolution of a municipality must meet the following conditions:
(a) The municipality to be dissolved must not be substantially surrounded by other municipalities.
(b) The county or another municipality must be demonstrably able to provide necessary services to the municipal area proposed for dissolution.
(c) An equitable arrangement must be made in relation to bonded indebtedness and vested rights of employees of the municipality to be dissolved."

 

[mikejs78]

whether it’s justified or not…this could have all been avoided if Disney wasn’t so dumb in how they handle things. More companies need to run their business instead of their mouths outside of their business objectives regardless of anyones beliefs. Just my opinion

Maybe your governor should seize your house because you expressed an opinion.

 

[LAKid53]

I've readd the HRPA. Which part is violated by what DeSantis said today about the state taking control of the RCID? I'm not doubting you - I just don't understand the HRPA all that well.

Because the HRPA grants specific governance powers to county and local governments that the state cannot arbitrarily revoke. Only the electors of those local governments can do so.

 

[LAKid53]

'...pursuant to general or special law' -- Which is why LAKid53 keeps referencing Ch 166 - because that is the relevant general law already in place. They can change that existing statue of course.. but it has much wider impacts.

Ch 165 also defines the process of creating the municipalities, so to your question about creating a new county, etc.. you can look there. You can see the basic timelines do not support the govenor's timeline..

At least the existing general law of chapters 165 and 166 are more well thoughtout then their special session law of just 'strike it down'

"
(3) The dissolution of a municipality must meet the following conditions:
(a) The municipality to be dissolved must not be substantially surrounded by other municipalities.
(b) The county or another municipality must be demonstrably able to provide necessary services to the municipal area proposed for dissolution.
(c) An equitable arrangement must be made in relation to bonded indebtedness and vested rights of employees of the municipality to be dissolved."

Don't forget Chapter 163.

 

[seascape]

I expect one of two possible outcomes from this stupid law. First and best for Florida is that the courts rule the lawkml is unconstitutional. The second outcome would actually be better for Disney and the RCID and actually not only restore the RCID but expand it to all the additional land Disney has purchased outside of the RCID.

 

[flynnibus]

Maybe your governor should seize your house because you expressed an opinion.

but what if he was duly elected?

 

[LAKid53]

I'd argue the bond issue still remains. It's quite a different situation between "the bond issuer controls the revenue source" and "the bond issuer does not control the revenue source".

Anything that affects the covenants of the bonds will have serious ramifications for both the issuer and holder.

 

[lentesta]

'...pursuant to general or special law' -- Which is why LAKid53 keeps referencing Ch 166 - because that is the relevant general law already in place. They can change that existing statue of course.. but it has much wider impacts.

Ch 165 also defines the process of creating the municipalities, so to your question about creating a new county, etc.. you can look there. You can see the basic timelines do not support the govenor's timeline..

At least the existing general law of chapters 165 and 166 are more well thoughtout then their special session law of just 'strike it down'

"
(3) The dissolution of a municipality must meet the following conditions:
(a) The municipality to be dissolved must not be substantially surrounded by other municipalities.
(b) The county or another municipality must be demonstrably able to provide necessary services to the municipal area proposed for dissolution.
(c) An equitable arrangement must be made in relation to bonded indebtedness and vested rights of employees of the municipality to be dissolved."

Ch 165 also requires new special districts to have a minimum population (emphasis mine):

165.061 Standards for incorporation, merger, and dissolution.—
(1) The incorporation of a new municipality, other than through merger of existing municipalities, must meet the following conditions in the area proposed for incorporation:
(a) It must be compact and contiguous and amenable to separate municipal government.
(b) It must have a total population, as determined in the latest official state census, special census, or estimate of population, in the area proposed to be incorporated of at least 1,500 persons in counties with a population of 75,000 or less, and of at least 5,000 population in counties with a population of more than 75,000.

If I'm reading this correctly, then around 4,960 people from the area around RCID would be roped into the new RCID. But wouldn't that then mean the state wouldn't control the RCID? Because you'd have regular Florida citizens within RCID, unable to vote on things.

I could be wrong.

 

[mmascari]

With support from both chambers of the legislature, DeSantis can alter statutes pretty much anyway he wants.

What DeSantis cannot alter is the Florida Constitution. IMO, we have to look for ways that violate the Florida Constitution. The Florida Supreme Court cannot ignore that.

Imagine he finds a way that's within the Constitution and he is able to have state takeover of RCID. (I said to imagine it, no matter how unlikely.)

What constrains him from taking over every other local government he has a disagreement with? Disagree with a local schoolboard, take over the controlling government. Disagree with a local sheriff, take over the controlling government.

I presume DeSantis has an opponent in the upcoming election? I realize DeSantis is still the favorite but that person will surely run against this blatant hate toward LGBTQIA+ and the Mouse. I can’t imagine these moves really help sway the general population toward DeSantis. His supporters? Sure. But even they are clearly not liking the news that this will cost taxpayers money. DeSantis can claim he will get everything he wants and Disney will pay for everything, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. It reminds me of, “we are going to build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it.” We know how that played out.

This one feels even worse. A good, or even just adequate, opponent will run ads about DeSantis coming for their local government. Coming to punish the companies they work for. That the DeSantis policies and actions are discouraging businesses from coming to FL. That they're depressing employment opportunities. That they're adding to the taxes everyone needs to pay. That they're making it harder for local governments to raise money. That DeSantis is anti business and pro individual tax increases.

An opponent doesn't have to talk about the other social issues at all. They'll be able to point at the direct impacts that are the result of the actions. Those are the results if RCID is successfully dissolved.

This is why Disney doesn't have to say anything right now. The talking point of "getting back at Disney" may be good for DeSantis, but the collateral damage of actually doing those things is most definitely bad for him. Someone that is "Not Disney" is going to use all those things to attack him. If that doesn't resolve the issues for Disney, they can deal with it after that.

While the impact to Disney may be the most immediate thing if RCID is dissolved, the impact to others will have much larger impact to the others than the relative impact is to Disney.

 

[LAKid53]

Ch 165 also requires new special districts to have a minimum population (emphasis mine):



If I'm reading this correctly, then around 4,960 people from the area around RCID would be roped into the new RCID. But wouldn't that then mean the state wouldn't control the RCID? Because you'd have regular Florida citizens within RCID, unable to vote on things.

I could be wrong.

If they are property owners within the District, they have voting rights.

 

[mmascari]

If they are property owners within the District, they have voting rights.

I think you just solved it.

The state just needs to acquire land within the RCID boundary. Probably through eminent domain or seizure of some type. Perhaps asset forfeiture, they could charge some of the land as part of a meth scheme or something.

Then, move in enough loyal people to have a majority in the RCID vote and vote in a new government.

Of course, they'll need to execute this plan faster than RCID is able to change its boundaries to exclude that land from the district. Just like they did when they sold off other land for people to buy but not be in RCID then.

I bet that would fun to watch play out.

 

[peter11435]

I think you just solved it.

The state just needs to acquire land within the RCID boundary. Probably through eminent domain or seizure of some type. Perhaps asset forfeiture, they could charge some of the land as part of a meth scheme or something.

Then, move in enough loyal people to have a majority in the RCID vote and vote in a new government.

Of course, they'll need to execute this plan faster than RCID is able to change its boundaries to exclude that land from the district. Just like they did when they sold off other land for people to buy but not be in RCID then.

I bet that would fun to watch play out.

The state (and the federal government) already owns land within the district.

 

[LAKid53]

Imagine he finds a way that's within the Constitution and he is able to have state takeover of RCID. (I said to imagine it, no matter how unlikely.)

What constrains him from taking over every other local government he has a disagreement with? Disagree with a local schoolboard, take over the controlling government. Disagree with a local sheriff, take over the controlling government.

Under Section 112.51, F.S., the governor can suspend any elected or appointed municipal official for "...malfeasance, misfeasance, neglect of duty, habitual drunkenness, incompetence, or permanent inability to perform official duties." In addition, the governor can suspend said official when "...is arrested for a felony or for a misdemeanor related to the duties of office or is indicted or informed against for the commission of a federal felony or misdemeanor or state felony or misdemeanor..."

A temporary appointment to the vacant office shall be made in the same manner in which the office is filled. If no such provision exists, then the governor appoints a temporary.

 

[UNCgolf]

Under Section 112.51, F.S., the governor can suspend any elected or appointed municipal official for "...malfeasance, misfeasance, neglect of duty, habitual drunkenness, incompetence, or permanent inability to perform official duties." In addition, the governor can suspend said official when "...is arrested for a felony or for a misdemeanor related to the duties of office or is indicted or informed against for the commission of a federal felony or misdemeanor or state felony or misdemeanor..."

A temporary appointment to the vacant office shall be made in the same manner in which the office is filled. If no such provision exists, then the governor appoints a temporary.

I wonder if there's any case law testing the limits of that authority, or if it's ever even been used.

 

[GoofGoof]

With support from both chambers of the legislature, DeSantis can alter statutes pretty much anyway he wants.

What DeSantis cannot alter is the Florida Constitution. IMO, we have to look for ways that violate the Florida Constitution. The Florida Supreme Court cannot ignore that.

My kneejerk reaction is that what DeSantis proposes (taking direct control over RCID) violates the Floridia Constitution.

However...

(a) POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS. The state shall be divided by law into political subdivisions called counties. Counties may be created, abolished or changed by law, with provision for payment or apportionment of the public debt.​

OK, so the state can create, abolish, or change counties by simple majority law.

Counties have officers and commissioners elected by the residents/landowners (for RCID, this is effectively Disney):

(d) COUNTY OFFICERS. There shall be elected by the electors of each county, for terms of four years, a sheriff, a tax collector, a property appraiser, a supervisor of elections, and a clerk of the circuit court.​

(e) COMMISSIONERS. Except when otherwise provided by county charter, the governing body of each county shall be a board of county commissioners composed of five or seven members serving staggered terms of four years. After each decennial census the board of county commissioners shall divide the county into districts of contiguous territory as nearly equal in population as practicable. One commissioner residing in each district shall be elected as provided by law.​

But there's an exception:

(f) NON-CHARTER GOVERNMENT. Counties not operating under county charters shall have such power of self-government as is provided by general or special law. The board of county commissioners of a county not operating under a charter may enact, in a manner prescribed by general law, county ordinances not inconsistent with general or special law, but an ordinance in conflict with a municipal ordinance shall not be effective within the municipality to the extent of such conflict.​

Does this mean that DeSantis can turn RCID into its own non-charter county, and then enact in "general or special law" whatever provisions he wants?

Still, he runs into the issue of Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake, which are incorporated cities. Maybe he gets around those with this:

(a) ESTABLISHMENT. Municipalities may be established or abolished and their charters amended pursuant to general or special law. When any municipality is abolished, provision shall be made for the protection of its creditors.​

The Floridia Constitution is complex. Presumably, someone is advising DeSantis that there are ways to accomplish what he (says) he wants to do.

It just seems like it would get tied up in court for years, with Disney ultimately winning on First Amendment grounds if it came to that.

What a mess.

This is some dark stuff. Just take a step back and think about what we are talking about. The state abolishing charters of incorporated cities. Are people really OK with that? Legal or not why would anyone support that kind of action, especially since it‘s being done over a political difference? Even the concept of creating a special tax district to collect additional taxes that covers private property but allows none of the property owners any representation. Is that something anyone really supports? When did so many people decide this extreme level of government overreach is OK. I can’t really believe most people actually would support this stuff but unfortunately with social media bubbles and echo chambers many people just blindly believe the talking points. “Disney is going to pay their fair share”. This has very little to do with their share and nothing to do with fair. Dark stuff.

 

[lentesta]

I think you just solved it.

The state just needs to acquire land within the RCID boundary. Probably through eminent domain or seizure of some type. Perhaps asset forfeiture, they could charge some of the land as part of a meth scheme or something.

Then, move in enough loyal people to have a majority in the RCID vote and vote in a new government.

Of course, they'll need to execute this plan faster than RCID is able to change its boundaries to exclude that land from the district. Just like they did when they sold off other land for people to buy but not be in RCID then.

I bet that would fun to watch play out.

Couldn't Disney just build corporate housing faster and move in loyalists to counter that?

 

[mmascari]

The state (and the federal government) already owns land within the district.

There you go then. Start looking for the RVs or Trailer homes being rolled out.

Adding enough people that meet the conditions required to vote on RCID government, and simply voting for a new government would be the least controversial way to take over RCID.

 

[JoeCamel]

Couldn't Disney just build corporate housing faster and move in loyalists to counter that?

If RCID approves the plan
...