Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Angel Ariel]

We can agree to disagree its legitimately an act of god imho legally speaking i mean.

No, ignoring public health guidance in the midst of a pandemic to do whatever you feel like is not an act of God. It is a choice.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Can they not walk? Are they in a machine all day just to not die? I guess crippling can be interpreted differently. Look im just pointing out the factual substance that makes comparing polio to rona absurd.

Yeah, we should wait until COVID-19 kills as many people as polio before we act responsibly.

Oh, wait, we’ve already lapped that number many times over - in less than two years vs. decades.

 

[DisneyCane]

There should be no personal choice when it comes to a pandemic in which you can accidentally kill your fellow citizen - unless you want the personal choice to be charged with negligent homicide. You want your cake and eat it, too.

Unvaccinated should be locked down. It’s their “personal choice” to put themselves at risk.

As I said in a post yesterday, I believe that making the choice not to be vaccinated against COVID-19 is idiotic and that everybody who can be vaccinated should go and get vaccinated. That said, looking at the deaths and hospitalizations breakthrough data from the CDC, it is clear that if you get vaccinated (and keep up with whatever the booster recommendations are), your risk of a serious outcome from COVID-19 is miniscule.

Therefore, somebody who makes the incredibly bad choice not to be vaccinated isn't really going to accidentally kill a fellow citizen who made the intelligent choice and got vaccinated. If they accidentally kill somebody who isn't vaccinated, that is really the fault of the person they killed.

I still think people have the right to choose not to be vaccinated. I also think that hospitals should be allowed to turn away unvaccinated COVID patients once they reach a certain % of capacity (overall and in the ICU). If they die because they were locked out then that is on them for not getting vaccinated.

 

[matt9112]

No, ignoring public health guidance in the midst of a pandemic to do whatever you feel like is not an act of God. It is a choice.

I meant the virus....lol like its a piece of nature.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Can they not walk? Are they in a machine all day just to not die? I guess crippling can be interpreted differently. Look im just pointing out the factual substance that makes comparing polio to rona absurd.

No, as was pointed out you are comparing your misconceptions.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If they accidentally kill somebody who isn't vaccinated, that is really the fault of the person they killed.

Not if that person is ineligible to receive the vaccine. Or the person was immunocompromised, got the vaccine, but it didn’t have same impact on their immune system as everyone else.
Etc. etc .

 

[matt9112]

Yeah, we should wait until COVID-19 kills as many people as polio before we act responsibly.

Oh, wait, we’ve already lapped that number many times over - in less than two years vs. decades.

I mean your leading the charge it seems like so as a vaxxed person myself i feel like its in good hands sir.

 

[matt9112]

No, as was pointed out you are comparing your misconceptions.

Sure.

 

[DisneyCane]

No, it isn’t anymore. It’s an act of carelessness.

If you intentionally spread HIV without disclosing your status (which doesn’t even kill the person soon if they get treatment) you are criminally liable.

I will agree with you that if you KNOW you have COVID and don't isolate and take all other recommended precautions then you should be held criminally liable just like your HIV example. With HIV, if somebody is positive but doesn't know it then they aren't criminally liable. Same should go for COVID.

Everybody should not have to assume they have a contagious SARS-CoV-2 infection from a legal perspective when the actual chance that they do is under 1%.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

The data is very clear that getting vaccinated is what works. I don't know which States and/or territories don't report but from the 49 that do there have only been 1,623 deaths and 6,782 hospitalizations caused by COVID breakthrough infections so far and this includes the Delta variant spike. For deaths, the total from breakthrough infections over the course of months is lower than two days of deaths in the unvaccinated.

Exactly why I said get the vaccine.

 

[matt9112]

That's not correct. Polio infection actually had a complete resolution rate of over 99%. Poliomyelitis, on the other hand, which is the well-known neurologic complication of infection with the polio virus (and what most people actually mean when they use the word "polio"), had much worse prognosis, but occurs in only about 0.5% of everyone infected with the virus. This still caused a huge number of cases, though, because the virus was endemic almost everywhere on earth. So, yes, we mandated a vaccine for a virus whose complications were far more rare on a percentage basis than COVID-19, if you want to play that percentages game.

And from the latest I've seen, the current mean age of COVID fatalities is now skewing about 10-15 years younger than during previous waves. It is killing much more young people than previously.

I stand corrected (was going off of stuff from the cdc website that was im sure a condensed version)

Your second point might be related to vax rates ? Since on all the charts i have seen in this wonderful thread of a thread show younger vax rates far lower than older folks?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Your second point might be related to vax rates ? Since on all the charts i have seen in this wonderful thread of a thread show younger vax rates far lower than older folks?

or a more virulent delta mutation of the virus….

Or…

more likely..

both.

 

[Heppenheimer]

or a more virulent delta mutation of the virus….

Or…

more likely..

both.

And, add causing more severe disease to that.

This is NOT the same COVID-19 we knew from last year.

 

[lazyboy97o]

or a more virulent delta mutation of the virus….

Or…

more likely..

both.

And, add causing more severe disease to that.

This is NOT the same COVID-19 we knew from last year.

But, but, viruses can’t mute to become worse because of reasons!

 

[Heppenheimer]

But, but, viruses can’t mute to become worse because of reasons!

America has a weapon against that- it's called "freedom", or "magic", or something like that.

 

[DisneyCane]

And, add causing more severe disease to that.

This is NOT the same COVID-19 we knew from last year.

100%. With the 2020 version you could make an argument that people under 40 didn't really need to be vaccinated. That isn't the case with the current iteration. As I posted yesterday, my wife helped treat COVID patients at the beginning and currently. She told me that the patients now are, by and large, in worse shape than the ones from last March/April, commenting that some have had the worst lungs she's seen in her career.

 

[Andrew C]

100%. With the 2020 version you could make an argument that people under 40 didn't really need to be vaccinated. That isn't the case with the current iteration. As I posted yesterday, my wife helped treat COVID patients at the beginning and currently. She told me that the patients now are, by and large, in worse shape than the ones from last March/April, commenting that some have had the worst lungs she's seen in her career.

I think a UK study came out recently that said chances of ending up in the hospital with delta are higher than alpha. Another reason to get vaccinated, as if we needed another.

 

[Figgy1]

As I said in a post yesterday, I believe that making the choice not to be vaccinated against COVID-19 is idiotic and that everybody who can be vaccinated should go and get vaccinated. That said, looking at the deaths and hospitalizations breakthrough data from the CDC, it is clear that if you get vaccinated (and keep up with whatever the booster recommendations are), your risk of a serious outcome from COVID-19 is miniscule.

Therefore, somebody who makes the incredibly bad choice not to be vaccinated isn't really going to accidentally kill a fellow citizen who made the intelligent choice and got vaccinated. If they accidentally kill somebody who isn't vaccinated, that is really the fault of the person they killed.

I still think people have the right to choose not to be vaccinated. I also think that hospitals should be allowed to turn away unvaccinated COVID patients once they reach a certain % of capacity (overall and in the ICU). If they die because they were locked out then that is on them for not getting vaccinated.

You do realize there are people who can't be vaccinated due to medical conditions and that there are people still on waiting lists to get their first shots with certain medical conditions That doesn't even take into account the under 12s and yes some of them are high risk

 

[DisneyCane]

You do realize there are people who can't be vaccinated due to medical conditions and that there are people still on waiting lists to get their first shots with certain medical conditions That doesn't even take into account the under 12s and yes some of them are high risk

As I have stated many times before those people need to take extra precautions (such as wearing an N95 respirator in public at all times) to protect themselves.

On my hospital idea, if somebody has a legitimate, medical reason that they can't be vaccinated or are not eligible for vaccination then they should obviously be treated.

 

[LaughingGravy]

I will agree with you that if you KNOW you have COVID and don't isolate and take all other recommended precautions then you should be held criminally liable just like your HIV example. With HIV, if somebody is positive but doesn't know it then they aren't criminally liable. Same should go for COVID.

I can see it now.
Did you know you had covid?.........."I don't recall."

Well. they said "I don't recall" under oath, so they can't be held criminally liable, your honor.

[EDIT] Unless there's a legitimate medical reason and there is a vaxxine approved for one's age,, there no excuse to not get vaxxed.
Places are finally starting to make it difficult for the voluntarily unvaxxed, as they should.