Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Willmark]

I like to consider myself a near anarchist. I don’t like the idea of government really doing anything and don’t think they tend to do things well. I even have crazy beliefs like I think we should get rid of the direct election of senators. I am though also a proponent of the classical liberal idea that governments are instituted to protect the rights of the individual and I have found myself challenged by the pandemic because issues of communicable diseases lie at that intersection of life and liberty. I should be able to do whatever I want so long as it doesn’t hurt you.

I also generally don’t like “the ends justify the means.” I keep asking about polio because it is such a clear and extreme example. You’re not going to find many people straight up saying “We would be better off with polio. We would be more free if thousands of kids were paralyzed each year.” I don’t like removing personal choice but how much is actually lost by telling people they can’t decide to get polio or any of the other diseases that are prevented by required vaccines?

We’re in a lot of agreement then on your stances I too would get rid of the 17th amendment and it’s not crazy. More can be taken to DM.

Where I disagree is the comparison to Polio. That’s false equivalency. The closer context would be if it was mandated that people need to get the flu vaccine.

Mileage will of course vary on that, but the point is polio=Covid isn’t equivalent.

I also get that people use that as a case for mass vaccination or even it being compelled/required. But that’s not what I’m pointing out. I’m pointing out one is far more deadly/debilitating than the other.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

I have three questions @GoofGoof

1) Is NY and NJ will not go back mask mandates by fall/winter?

2) Is there will be unlikely that there will be major big spike/surge by fall/winter this year?

3) Is CDC will lift masks for public transportation by September when they will expire it?

I work in gov in NYS:

1. I would venture no, but it depends if there is a variant outbreak that the vaccines aren't effective against (which is unlikely but possible as it still has plenty of population both stateside and worldwide to work their way through).
2. It probably is unlikely to raise cases to the levels we were even seeing early spring around Easter, the mRNA vaccines are incredibly effective even against variants because of how they work.
3. My guess is yes, but that's just a guess.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

Remember that you will likely have to get a Coronavirus booster every year much like a flu shot. It likely will stick around much like the flu has, though obviously it's a 2-way street; variants will develop so the vaccine may not be as effective as it was (though, again the mRNA vaccines fixes a huge problem that faced the flu vaccine with all the variants of the flu), and also the human body will adapt and likely be better suited to fight more common strains of the coronavirus and we will likely have better treatment develop for those who do get it.

The flu still kills 300k+/year worldwide however (nowhere close to what this epidemic will have killed when it is all said and done, but still an enormous amount), so this will continue to be a problem for decades to come. It will become a part of normal life though and we will have to adapt, much like we have with the modern flu.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I work in gov in NYS:

1. I would venture no, but it depends if there is a variant outbreak that the vaccines aren't effective against (which is unlikely but possible as it still has plenty of population both stateside and worldwide to work their way through).
2. It probably is unlikely to raise cases to the levels we were even seeing early spring around Easter, the mRNA vaccines are incredibly effective even against variants because of how they work.
3. My guess is yes, but that's just a guess.

So NJ and NY will NOT go back mask mandate by fall?

 

[ctrlaltdel]

So NJ and NY will NOT go back mask mandate by fall?

My guess is that we will not. But it's clearly an uncertain, and I don't want to rule out another outbreak. Seems unlikely though.

 

[Chi84]

I know how you feel. I just found out (actually just had it confirmed yet again) that my brother-in-law is an idiot. He's unvaccinated and plans to remain so because his diet and special water and air systems in his house apparently protect him from getting COVID. Also, he believes the vaccines don't work against variants. And he's coming in to visit my 90-year-old (vaccinated) mother-in-law and staying in her house. I moved heaven and earth to get her vaccinated as soon as it was possible. I trust the vaccines, but he’s coming from an area with a lot of delta variant cases, we don’t know exact efficacy against it, it’s more transmissible and she’s 90 freaking years old! Strikes me as irresponsible.

 

[DisneyFan32]

Remember that you will likely have to get a Coronavirus booster every year much like a flu shot. It likely will stick around much like the flu has, though obviously it's a 2-way street; variants will develop so the vaccine may not be as effective as it was (though, again the mRNA vaccines fixes a huge problem that faced the flu vaccine with all the variants of the flu), and also the human body will adapt and likely be better suited to fight more common strains of the coronavirus and we will likely have better treatment develop for those who do get it.

The flu still kills 300k+/year worldwide however (nowhere close to what this epidemic will have killed when it is all said and done, but still an enormous amount), so this will continue to be a problem for decades to come. It will become a part of normal life though and we will have to adapt, much like we have with the modern flu.

 

[DisneyFan32]

My guess is that we will not. But it's clearly an uncertain, and I don't want to rule out another outbreak. Seems unlikely though.

So NJ, PA and NY are safe for now by fall/winter for now? Because most people are vaccinated are 70% by fall/winter. So we're alright guys.

 

[Trauma]

Why do you think we are seeing government pushback on the idea of a booster?

Id love to get some feedback on this because my mind just says hey if we need them we need them.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Why do you think we are seeing government pushback on the idea of a booster?

Id love to get some feedback on this because my mind just says hey if we need them we need them.

I was just wondering the same thing.

 

[hopemax]

Why do you think we are seeing government pushback on the idea of a booster?

Id love to get some feedback on this because my mind just says hey if we need them we need them.

Because we don't need them.

ETA: In most cases. If we find boosters work to give immunocompromised the same level of protection as a normal person gets in their initial vaccination, then they would be a unique sub-group.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

Why do you think we are seeing government pushback on the idea of a booster?

Id love to get some feedback on this because my mind just says hey if we need them we need them.

Knowing the FDA and CDC, I think that they probably need to see more data on trials before recommending timing for boosters. Since most everyone has only had the 2 dose immunity for at most 6 months or so, I think they likely want to see when the immunity starts wearing off, especially with new vaccine types. Obviously Pfizer has an angle as well, they want another profit generator, which I can't blame them for.
As an aside, the FDA/CDC have both been frustratingly slow to either adopt the new guidance based on reality on the ground (in the case of the CDC) and giving certain approvals of the vaccines (in the case of the FDA), in my opinion of course.

 

[Trauma]

Because we don't need them.

ETA: In most cases. If we find boosters work to give immunocompromised the same level of protection as a normal person gets in their initial vaccination, then they would be a unique sub-group.

Well I don’t like that.

If we start to have Pfizer / Moderna saying we need them and the government saying we don’t, it will only add fuel to the anti vax fire.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Why do you think we are seeing government pushback on the idea of a booster?

Id love to get some feedback on this because my mind just says hey if we need them we need them.

I think telling the US public they will need a booster after 6 months will make people who are already hesitant more hesitant.

If Pfizer needs a booster after 6 months what about Moderna? What about J&J?

 

[mmascari]

I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make. Are you advocating for vaccinated people to continue to stay locked up in their homes because a bunch of the country refuses to use their brains and get vaccinated?

It's all relative.

I wouldn't expect a vaccinated person in Springfield MO to do the same things as one in Burlington VT.

Someone in Sarasota or Jacksonville FL is also going to be different from each other and also different from the first two.

As a vaccinated person, if I was in Springfield MO, I wouldn't want to be in any poorly ventilated areas full or other people. Especially people I didn't know were definitely vaccinated. In Burlington VT, not an issue at all.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Not sure it matters, but I think @Parker in NYC was responding to the info on Orange County, Florida, but the LA Times article is referring to Orange County, California. They each relate to TWDC though, so....close enough.

Oh, right, duh. In any case, I was just looking for stats above and beyond the positivity rate, to get a more complete story.

 

[DisneyFan32]

 

[mmascari]

Well I don’t like that.

If we start to have Pfizer / Moderna saying we need them and the government saying we don’t, it will only add fuel to the anti vax fire.

Blame Pfizer. Everything about the announcement from them screams money grab.

It's like they're on top of the world right now, everyone loves Pfizer, everyone wants the Pfizer vaccine. And they're trying to capitalize on that as a marketing plus and way to generate more sales.

 

[hopemax]

Well I don’t like that.

If we start to have Pfizer / Moderna saying we need them and then he government saying we don’t, it will only add fuel to the anti vax fire.

So you want the government to discard reality because you already picked the side that they are necessary?

Since when do people trust pharmaceutical companies so much? You have already decided that Pfizer / Moderna are the more truthful party.

It's not the virologists and ID specialists who are saying we need boosters. They're the ones saying, these mRNAs vaccines are better than we could have imagined and so what we predicted might be necessary is showing itself in real world data not to be necessary.

The rest of us should be celebrating. Instead, you're leaning into continuing to use tax payer money on something with a marginal benefit, in order to fund big pharma.

 

[Jrb1979]

Canada will not open its border to non-essential, unvaccinated visitors for quite a while, Trudeau says | CNN

Days after Canada dropped its quarantine requirement for fully vaccinated Canadians entering the country, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau rejected the idea that non-essential unvaccinated visitors will soon be allowed in.

www.cnn.com

Disapointing news, I’m surprised Trudeau wants this to continue indefinitely for now. My understanding was this was getting quite unpopular with Canadians because of a loss of tourist dollars and this restricting Canadians from visiting us.

I still believe the vaccine passport is the real reason for not opening the border. Canada has said that fully vaccinated people will have to upload their proof of vaccination to the ArriveCanada app. When I got my 2nd dose I was told to keep my proof of vaccination with my passport.