News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[matt9112]

You‘re asking for proof that people were offended? How much proof do you think it would take for you to be convinced that it’s worth considering making changes? Is there a certain number of people, or type of people that could influence your opinion on this?

Come on, you know Disney well enough to know that they wouldn’t spend millions to retheme a popular attraction for no reason. You might think the reason doesn’t warrant Disney’s response, but that’s different than saying there’s no reason whatsoever.

The tower of terror has seatbelts...my faith in them making the CORRECT choices isnt that strong.

 

[_caleb]

Its also the correct one.
Its like me never wanting to visit germany or getting offended because of the nazis..

The ride itself as it stands has nothing tangibly offensive. This song was from that thing at one time! Technically being offended is a personal thing and can varry wildly however i also believe there's a common sense test here. Ssying the color green for example is offensive is just dumb....even if you are entitled to feel that way.

Wut

 

[Brer Oswald]

Wut

They’re basically saying that “To say that the ride, and the ride alone, is racist is quite frankly ridiculous”.

You know this. You yourself came to the conclusion earlier in this thread noted that they went to the lengths to remove all objectionable content when they made the attraction.

The problem has and always will be the film. I’m not using the term “source material” because to me, the source material are the traditional stories that were passed down.

 

[_caleb]

They’re basically saying that “To say that the ride, and the ride alone, is racist is quite frankly ridiculous”.

You know this. You yourself came to the conclusion earlier in this thread noted that they went to the lengths to remove all objectionable content when they made the attraction.

The problem has and always will be the film. I’m not using the term “source material” because to me, the source material are the traditional stories that were passed down.

My “wut” was more directed at the word-salad mention of Nazis...

And while I have come to better understand what you and some other thoughtful anti-changers are saying about the ride being different-enough from the film, I’m still not sure I agree, and I’m certainly not ready to dismiss the concerns of those who say the ride should be changed.

I understand what you mean by not using “source material,” but neither the characters nor the ride would exist without the film, and the story of the ride is a crudely-translated version of the stories from the animated sequences of the film.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

My “wut” was more directed at the word-salad mention of Nazis...

And while I have come to better understand what you and some other thoughtful anti-changers are saying about the ride being different-enough from the film, I’m still not sure I agree, and I’m certainly not ready to dismiss the concerns of those who say the ride should be changed.

I understand what you mean by not using “source material,” but neither the characters nor the ride would exist without the film, and the story of the ride is a crudely-translated version of the stories from the animated sequences of the film.

The characters are from African folklore and pre-date the film by many, many years. They could create new, less problematic versions of the animated sequences (and other Brer stories) and base a ride update on them if they wished.

 

[_caleb]

The characters are from African folklore and pre-date the film by many, many years. They could create new, less problematic versions of the animated sequences (and other Brer stories) and base a ride update on them if they wished.

They could.

 

[Brer Oswald]

The characters are from African folklore and pre-date the film by many, many years. They could create new, less problematic versions of the animated sequences (and other Brer stories) and base a ride update on them if they wished.

And the animated sequences in the film, aside from the songs, are actual stories that predate the film.

They could.

It would be the moral thing to do. It’s why I cringe when people say their current course of action is the BEST one they can take for increased inclusivity and cultural representation. It isn’t. It’s the CHEAPEST and EASIEST they can get away with. And they get to sell extra toys and dresses! (Which they could still do if they created an original PatF attraction).

 

[Brer Oswald]

And while I have come to better understand what you and some other thoughtful anti-changers are saying about the ride being different-enough from the film, I’m still not sure I agree, and I’m certainly not ready to dismiss the concerns of those who say the ride should be changed.

I’m just going to point this out before it gets lost. A big problem with this ordeal is the constant changing of the narrative. The problem is and has ALWAYS been with the film.

Every single person who’s been on that ride, known it’s origins, and enjoyed it, but changed their tone overnight is a hypocrite.

If you ask someone why the ride’s the problem, the “evidence” provided will be the film. You can argue all day whether that’s enough to justify the change. Some say yes, some say no. That’s fine, but we’re not going to try to change the narrative to get “1 up” on people that disagree with our opinions.

 

[_caleb]

I’m just going to point this out before it gets lost. A big problem with this ordeal is the constant changing of the narrative. The problem is and has ALWAYS been with the film.

Every single person who’s been on that ride, known it’s origins, and enjoyed it, but changed their tone overnight is a hypocrite.

If you ask someone why the ride’s the problem, the “evidence” provided will be the film. You can argue all day whether that’s enough to justify the change. Some say yes, some say no. That’s fine, but we’re not going to try to change the narrative to get “1 up” on people that disagree with our opinions.

I agree that it’s not okay for people to suddenly change their opinions just to go with the crowd. But I do think there should be room for people to listen and grow and change their thinking on things. It’s okay for someone who used to love the ride for what it is, to then change their minds after listening to thoughtful opinions from those who find it offensive.

I also agree that they tried to distance the ride from the film in many ways. Some of them worked well- no real reference to Uncle Remus beyond the signage in the queues; others (like changing the “tar baby” to “beehive and honey”), not as much, in my opinion.

I’ve been listening and trying to understand. I think the essence of the controversy is whether or not the Br’er animals can be “redeemed” after the racially insensitive material in the film they were created for. There is room for disagreement here, and I appreciate that we’re not trying to vilify those we disagree with.

Specifically for me, I don’t see racism in the ride’s story itself, but I’m not sure it’s possible to distance the animated characters enough from the film. I’m also more willing to give up the Splash Mountain theme if it will help give those who have not historically been given as much consideration better/greater representation in the parks.

 

[matt9112]

My “wut” was more directed at the word-salad mention of Nazis...

And while I have come to better understand what you and some other thoughtful anti-changers are saying about the ride being different-enough from the film, I’m still not sure I agree, and I’m certainly not ready to dismiss the concerns of those who say the ride should be changed.

I understand what you mean by not using “source material,” but neither the characters nor the ride would exist without the film, and the story of the ride is a crudely-translated version of the stories from the animated sequences of the film.

The term word salad is more of a wut thing imho. The point is that your trying to tie two things (the movie and the ride) together when they are very loosely connected in the context of how the ride is.

 

[doctornick]

The characters are from African folklore and pre-date the film by many, many years. They could create new, less problematic versions of the animated sequences (and other Brer stories) and base a ride update on them if they wished.

To me, this has always been the best solution. Create a Br'er Rabbit series for Disney+. Include in different or related African folk tales if feasible. Make references to Splash when appropriate. Don't involve Remus at all. Now you have a ride based on historical African/Afican-American tales and it's not as tied to the problematic source material . And likely could be done for a heck of a lot cheaper than retrofitting the ride. And gives content for Disney+. Win win.

And build a Tiana attraction elsewhere in an appropriate space so you can still have that representation as well.

 

[_caleb]

The term word salad is more of a wut thing imho. The point is that your trying to tie two things (the movie and the ride) together when they are very loosely connected in the context of how the ride is.

I’m not the one tying the movie to the ride, Disney did that when they chose to use the characters from Song of the South in a ride. They aren’t “loosely“ connected, the characters were literally made for the film.

If they wanted to separate the ride further from the film, they could have done that. They could have made the same ride, but with totally unique characters. They even could have done different stories than the ones used in the film.

 

[LittleBuford]

The fact that the stories have their origin in African folklore is irrelevant. We don’t ride Journey of the Little Mermaid and think “Hans Christian Andersen”, or the Mad Tea Party and think “Lewis Carroll”. The Magic Kingdom is not the place for serious cultural or literary education; let’s stop pretending that Splash Mountain was ever meant to be, or can be rebranded as, a tribute to African (American) tradition.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The fact that the stories have their origin in African folklore is irrelevant. We don’t ride Journey of the Little Mermaid and think “Hans Christian Andersen”, or the Mad Tea Party and think “Lewis Carroll”. The Magic Kingdom is not the place for serious cultural or literary education; let’s stop pretending that Splash Mountain was ever meant to be, or can be rebranded as, a tribute to African (American) tradition.

Then lets also acknowledge that Song of the South and Splash Mountain are not the same thing and what makes Song of the South questionable is not intentionally present or pushed in the attraction.

The written Br'er Rabbit stories were an adaptation of one thing, Song of the South was an adaption of that, and Splash Mountain was yet another revision to suit a different medium.

 

[LittleBuford]

The written Br'er Rabbit stories were an adaptation of one thing, Song of the South was an adaption of that, and Splash Mountain was yet another revision to suit a different medium.

Your phrasing here obfuscates the fact that Splash Mountain is an adaptation of Song of the South, not "another revision" of the original stories. Without Song of the South, we wouldn't have Splash Mountain in its current form. No-one can be expected to pretend that the film isn't the immediate source material for the ride, because it is, even if great pains were taken to omit or change the more questionable elements.

I have no issue with people defending the current attraction and challenging the merits of the retheme, but the "African folklore" argument simply doesn't hold water.

 

[Incomudro]

My suggestion is that the anti-changers stop calling people SJWs and Woke Mob and other stuff that only shows that you haven’t been listening to what the pro-changers are actually saying.

Because the only reason this is being done is for the above reasons.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Because the only reason this is being done is for the above reasons.

And to sell more Princess merch.

To be inclu$ive.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Because the only reason this is being done is for the above reasons.

The main reason this is being done is so that they don’t have to solve the Song of the South problem. To the many onlookers who just learned of this problem this year, this is solving it. To anyone that’s paid attention, it isn’t solving it as much as it is “picking up and leaving town”. Of course, nobody will feel like they’re obligated to solve the problem now.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The most important question surrounding the retheme is whether or not the experience will be more Instagramable?

Will there be painted walls that encourage people to stop in the queue for photos and hold up the line?

Will there be a new brand of Tiana Teal® headbands for sale in the giftshop?

Will the mountain be repainted in such a way that it only looks good with the right filter?

I can only really enjoy my immersive, splashin' flume adventure if it gives me more likes.

 

[Brer Oswald]

The most important question surrounding the retheme is whether or not the experience will be more Instagramable?

Will there be painted walls that encourage people to stop in the queue for photos and hold up the line?

Will there be a new brand of Tiana Teal® headbands for sale in the giftshop?

Will the mountain be repainted in such a way that it only looks good with the right filter?

I can only really enjoy my immersive, splashin' flume adventure if it gives me more likes.

I guarantee you that in one of her only two appearances on the ride, Tiana will be wearing a unique dress that you can only buy in the gift shop.