Isn't Princess and the Frog offensive?

Status
Not open for further replies.

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This is not an issue for the future , this is an issue for RIGHT NOW. I suggest a new petition to stop this racist portrayal of a 1920s New Orleans before it even starts (might have to keep splash mountain for 30 more years while we find a non racist American era to portray)
I agree as honestly if things keep going this way in terms of race politics, any african amerrican story disney puts in will quite possibly end up being offensive at somepoint down the line.

If anyone wants full on stereotypes they can go down to Luigi's rollicking rollers and hear him sing about his cousins and meatballs and spaghetti and say "mama mia".
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I hope the Dapper Dans are next to be removed. Think about how many times they propagated racism and oppression by singing “Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah.” They could have been singing inclusive songs from Princess and the Frog instead the whole time!
I am kind of interested to know if that song is now expunged from the Disney catalogue. I have a feeling that it as well as all of the characters from the film will quietly disappear from the parks in the wake of this decision.

You're right. Let's also talk about the European-centric idea of Fantasyland, the overly romanticized idea of Main Street USA, the colonial tones of Adventureland and Frontierland, and the white-washed New Orleans Square. The idea of Disneyland is antiquated and racist. It's time for it to close.
I don't see any issue with Main Street or Fantasyland, but if we're honest the themes of Adventureland and Frontierland don't withstand much scrutiny in today's environment as they are very explicitly built around a romanticised view of colonialism. The parks more generally could be in for a rough ride if they start facing serious critiques for cultural appropriation. If anything, these concerns with reinforce the decision to focus on film-based lands and attractions that steer completely clear of any of these concerns.

It's hard to know what to say about all this. On the one hand, I think it's hard to deny that particularly Adventureland is built around a vision of the world that feels a bit uncomfortable if you probe it too much. On the other, I do hope they can deal with existing issues with some measure and balance. For example, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to remove the 'natives' from the Jungle Cruise as an update that would perhaps improve the ride. I suspect they'll have to take that lighter touch, because anything else will mean demolishing huge swathes of their parks and probably taking away a significant degree of their charm.

By the way, this isn't an endorsement of an extreme approach at all!
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
WARNING: N WORD and OTHER RACIAL SLURS




I can't even share the lyrics to these songs in here because I don't feel comfortable with that.
And this is the man who wrote the songs for Princess and The Frog.
Bob Iger and others are dirtbags for allowing this to be acting like a movement rather than revenue when this guy has done the music for the ride with those lyrics, not exactly moving forward from using these phrases.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
WARNING: N WORD and OTHER RACIAL SLURS




I can't even share the lyrics to these songs in here because I don't feel comfortable with that.
And this is the man who wrote the songs for Princess and The Frog.
Bob Iger and others are dirtbags for allowing this to be acting like a movement rather than revenue when this guy has done the music for the ride with those lyrics, not exactly moving forward from using these phrases.


Both of those songs are indictments of people who hold those views, which is not the same thing as the writer/performer himself believing or endorsing them.

Probably wouldn't be written today, true, but I see it in a similar light to something like Blazing Saddles, which uses all sorts of problematic language but the larger point is antiracism.

Just because people write for Disney at some point in their lives doesn't mean that all of their other content is squeaky clean. People who wrote songs for Frozen also wrote songs like "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist," "The Internet is for P--n," and "Hasa Diga Ebowai."
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Both of those songs are indictments of people who hold those views, which is not the same thing as the writer/performer himself believing them.

Probably wouldn't be written today, true, but I see it in a similar light to something like Blazing Saddles, which uses all sorts of problematic language but the larger point is antiracism.

Just because people write for Disney at some point in their lives doesn't mean that all of their other content is squeaky clean. People who wrote songs for Frozen also wrote songs like "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist," "The Internet is for P--n," and "Hasa Diga Ebowai."

Satire can still be hateful. Song of the South is incidentedly racist to some for some reason and needs to go but the writing of those you mention can still earn and be rehired by Disney. That is hypocritical to say the least if there was a cause behind it. Seems like a double standard when Splash is closing supposedly due to sensitivity. That is my point. They are changing it for revenue. People need to quit feeling some virtue signaling when the guy who wrote those songs still perform it today. They did not "win." Disney as a company of execs right now just love to pander.

Also, Danny Elfman has been involved with his brother in The Forbidden Zone film which is full of Blackface and offense after it was deemed so for decades. I don't think we should get rid of involvement, but people are being fired, demonized and having to apologize for less.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
This is from my review on another site.
In remembrance of Disneyland's Splash Mountain being rethemed to Princess and the Frog, I watched Song of the South. This is a charming heart filling movie about a little boy that loses his dad and learns life lessons from Uncle Remus stories. The movie doesn't earn the reputation for being politically incorrect. It presents some of the least offensive portraits of African Americans you can find. Gone with the Wind is many times more racist than this little movie. In fact, a lot of modern day movies composed of entirely African American casts are far more racist than anything made in that time period. Disney doesn't have the guts to stand up for this one. The character of Uncle Remus is a smart elderly man with strong morals and a clever way of teaching them. The actor won a oscar for this role. The animated sequences are pure Disney gold. The movie's main fault is not the politics but just being a little boring. The blame for that is mostly on Bobby Driscoll since he kind of mops around a lot. However, it isn't a bad acting job from a nine year old. Still the movie is worth seeing even if you skip over the live action sections and just watch the animated parts. You can download it from archive.org and judge for yourself.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
WARNING: N WORD and OTHER RACIAL SLURS




I can't even share the lyrics to these songs in here because I don't feel comfortable with that.
And this is the man who wrote the songs for Princess and The Frog.
Bob Iger and others are dirtbags for allowing this to be acting like a movement rather than revenue when this guy has done the music for the ride with those lyrics, not exactly moving forward from using these phrases.

Yep. Surprised this hasn't been brought up before. Someone should post this on Disney Parks Blog. If we are in cancel culture, people will dig this up anyways at some point.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Both of those songs are indictments of people who hold those views, which is not the same thing as the writer/performer himself believing or endorsing them.

Probably wouldn't be written today, true, but I see it in a similar light to something like Blazing Saddles, which uses all sorts of problematic language but the larger point is antiracism.

Just because people write for Disney at some point in their lives doesn't mean that all of their other content is squeaky clean. People who wrote songs for Frozen also wrote songs like "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist," "The Internet is for P--n," and "Hasa Diga Ebowai."
Cancel culture would surely get rid of the Frozen songwriters and Josh Gad for their offensive portrayals of Africa, if they "uncovered" it.

Also do you think cancel culture is cool with Randy Newman singing the N Word? Cause they are totally good at putting things in context right?
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
Cancel culture would surely get rid of the Frozen songwriters and Josh Gad for their offensive portrayals of Africa, if they "uncovered" it.

Also do you think cancel culture is cool with Randy Newman singing the N Word? Cause they are totally good at putting things in context right?

I mean, I'd argue at least some of those "cancel culture" people are better at putting things in context than some people having these unending diatribes about cancel culture (along with the implication that all of cancel culture is a bunch of bored idiots going out of their way to be offended that cannot ever have any valid or legitimate points) in these threads.

So in regards to the Frozen songwriters, you're saying that absolutely no one followed two popular, Tony-winners for Best Musical from the last two decades (Avenue Q, which closed within the past few years, and Book of Mormon, which is still running) and never put it together that the most popular animated film of the decade had music written by the same person and no Disney fan has any idea they exist? That the only response to them sharing any people at all with Frozen can be foaming at the mouth and demanding immediate cancellation of everything and everyone involved? Again, I don't see rational people arguing such things.

What makes the Randy Newman situation different from, say, the SOTS/Splash situation is that Randy Newman has never attempted to hide or deny the existence of those songs, unlike Disney with SOTS. Material that has never been hidden or denied tends to be more likely to be ignored than material that has been locked up (much like that post I made in the other thread regarding other Disney movies and their own content that in some cases arguably exceeds anything SOTS does yet have generally remained less controversial). I doubt that the songs would be written today, to be sure. Maybe it could be said that both those songs and SOTS had good intentions, but I'd argue that it's clear Randy Newman was more successful in reaching his target (disparaging the Rednecks who use that word freely and enforce that negative status quo) vs. SOTS, which tries to make a nice inclusive movie handicapped by the unintentional tonedeafness of the people who put the movie together. By contrast, Randy Newman clearly has a better understanding of the situation regardless of the words being used. To me that's not an equivalent situation, even if both could be argued to be problematic. In the case of these songs vs. SOTS, as with many other things in life, actions speak louder than words.

Serious question: would anyone really be offended if there was less Josh Gad in the world? Not for offense reasons, but personal taste reasons. Not that I'm advocating "cancelling" him for some arbitrary reason; however, there's just something about him that just irks me.
 
Last edited:

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I hope the Dapper Dans are next to be removed. Think about how many times they propagated racism and oppression by singing “Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah.” They could have been singing inclusive songs from Princess and the Frog instead the whole time!

It does make you wonder. If the animated characters from SOTS that have mostly nothing to do with the problematic elements are removed from the ride then what about the non SOTS AAs that are now associated with Splash Mountain and therefore SOTS?
 

TDL

Member
Absolutely not. This OP is inherently flawed. It's a fairy tale, and like all of Disney's fairy tales it romanticizes a particular time and place. Sure it's not "accurate" to the time, but it doesn't have to be. It's the singular Disney film out there (so far) that puts forth a black princess, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 

Screamface

Well-Known Member
Absolutely not. This OP is inherently flawed. It's a fairy tale, and like all of Disney's fairy tales it romanticizes a particular time and place. Sure it's not "accurate" to the time, but it doesn't have to be. It's the singular Disney film out there (so far) that puts forth a black princess, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Yep, the past sucked, there's a time and place to acknowledge it. Not everything has to be about how bad things have been. That's making everything political. You can have a nice story about a lady who wants to open a restaurant and becomes a frog for a short while.

There's something quite gross about the suggestion that characters based on their race, must only have stories that reflect racism etc.
 

solidyne

Well-Known Member

Thank you for posting this! What a killer re-working of this tune. From Michael's piercing minor pentatonic run at the top to the slow-grooving unison parts by the rest of the crew, it is chill-inducing. Interesting, too, to think about the producer's choice to use it in 1969. Was it some kind of reclamation? A joke? There had been other cover versions of the song, but I don't know how well known they were. I also believe this had Detroit players on it (pre-L.A.). Nice!

Could they just put this in the riverboat scene and call it good?

EDIT: OK, I now see it is clearly based on this 1962 Phil Spector production, albeit with gospel-funk replacing the by-then outdated Brill-Building-bossa. A top tenner I'd never heard. Thanks, internet!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom