News Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah it looked very different which is good, esp being so close to WD on Bay Lake.

Just being different didn’t make it good.

 

[BigDlover]

Just being different didn’t make it good.

I meant it's good that it at least seemed different from the other two lodges at WDW

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I doubt we will ever see another effort along the lines of Wilderness Lodge or the Grand Floridian coming from Disney. The time, care, attention to details and craftsmanship are something Disney pre-covid would not pay for, certainly they won't pay for them now. Someday perhaps they will return to quality.

We’ll always have those memories...I suppose?

Animal Kingdom Lodge is close to the same craftmanship as Wilderness Lodge.

Also its applied in a different way, but the Art of Animation does have a high level of detail, the buildings housing the rooms are concrete boxes, but the pool areas and theming are pretty fantastic as well as the lobby and the art in it. Also there are elements of Pop Century such as the memory boxes in the lobby area which are very detailed.

DAKL and WL were the same architect...and paid for by the “awful” Michael Eisner...who we love to punch.
AoA is just basically high priced Allstars...let’s stay sane on this.

The Value Resort model of a decorated box is very much the problem as it has been exported to the higher level hotels and even the parks. Hotels like the Lodges and the Grand Floridian were wholly conceived of as a themed experience. They’re form, space, organization and movement through them were all shaped by their story, by competent architects who understood the styles they were emulating to create a strong design. The Value resorts, Grand Floridian Villas, Gran Destino, Riviera and evening many park projects are boxes to be decorated with anything. They’re not distinct forms but boxes to be slathered in ornament. At times they can be highly ornamental but they’re never really detailed as a themed experience one enters.

ThEmEd eXpErIeNcE
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Whenever I get back down, I'll have to get more pictures of the hotel. I didn't take much on the last trip. There's a lot more places like those. It's a shame because the surrounding grounds are nice.

It’s atrocious...still can’t believe how hideous it is. They’re just seeing how far you’ll let them go...

And the grounds are Caribbean’s...with some grading. From another time.

Peter Dominick brought new meaning to what an architect should be. Basically, he was to Disney resorts what Joe Rhode is to Animal Kingdom, researching every last detail by visiting the areas over and over again to go so far as to define which materials/patterns were to be used in rooms.

I was not omitting AKL by any means but was simply stating that the Disney we once knew that cared about quality in the resorts is gone (for now). Perhaps this drop in quality is due to them not having him to turn to, but I doubt it. To me it all screams an unwillingness to go the extra mile up front.

and... I disagree with you on the values. They're horrible, all of them. But each to their own.

It’s sad that Dominick passed so young. But the current regime wasn’t gonna pay for his designs anyway

Values were fine...until they decided not to charge what they’re worth anymore. That’s not cool.

Well an imagineer still needed to ensure it looked like the movie and forwarded the story they wanted to tell, what extra details took effort to make the pool area at other resorts, they would have still also had an imagineer think about the story they wanted to tell. Rockwork around the pool at Wilderness Lodge is still a shell, there isn't much to it, but someone still put time and effort into designing it.

You have a somewhat romantic idea about what “imagineers” do on that type of bland block. Fast and cheap has been the DVC mandate more and more as time goes on. Squares with chotsky ala Saratoga doesn’t need herb Ryman or John hench to design.

Animal Kingdom Lodge is 19 years old (and change). That isn't at all recent.

Wait while I process that and drink my regrets.

Indeed. I toured it twice just before opening. If was and is amazing. Old Mikey was very proud of it.

But why would we care about that? We can buy after hours magic and the Halloween party (wait a minute...breaking news...)...and have you seen that stock price lately???

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I meant it's good that it at least seemed different from the other two lodges at WDW

I’ll take more lodges anyday...they are absolutely the finest in Disney hotel designs...not paid for by OLC at least.

 

[Jon81uk]

AoA is just basically high priced Allstars...let’s stay sane on this.

I know the value hotels aren't of any significant architectural interest, but I do think AoA is of a higher standard than the All Stars. Many of the common areas, especially the pools are done to a higher standard than the All Stars.

I do agree with the general consensus that the Lodge resorts, Contemporary and Grand Floridan/Californian have more interesting architecture that many of the other resorts.
But for many families, their kids love AoA and what it offers and it does what it is meant to do exceptionally well. The All Star resorts don't really deliver on this as they only thing they have going for them is price, there is little else of interest.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I’ll take more lodges anyday...they are absolutely the finest in Disney hotel designs...not paid for by OLC at least.

That Fantasy Springs “Luxury” hotel looks awful though.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That Fantasy Springs “Luxury” hotel looks awful though.
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But I guarantee it won’t be a cheap concrete prefab like the last 5 or so wdw DVC’s not named “kidani”

 

[the.dreamfinder]

But I guarantee it won’t be a cheap concrete prefab like the last 5 or so wdw DVC’s not named “kidani”

I know the product will be quality. Their attempt to create a Gaudiesque structure in the middle of a fantasyland doesn’t work for me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But I guarantee it won’t be a cheap concrete prefab like the last 5 or so wdw DVC’s not named “kidani”

Disney hasn’t used prefab anything for hotels since Walt Disney World Phase 1 and those buildings remain amazing for their uniformity and precision.

 

[UNCgolf]

I know the product will be quality. Their attempt to create a Gaudiesque structure in the middle of a fantasyland doesn’t work for me.

I don't think I'd call that Gaudiesque, but I agree that the aesthetic in use doesn't seem to fit.

 

[rowrbazzle]

Riviera and Destino Tower are the most recent Disney hotels, right? What hotels were built before those? I guess I'm curious of the progression between the lodges that so many love and the most recent two that so many dislike.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney hasn’t used prefab anything for hotels since Walt Disney World Phase 1 and those buildings remain amazing for their uniformity and precision.

Sorry...I misspoke...

“Ugly poured concrete and steel blocks on slab with no character”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Riviera and Destino Tower are the most recent Disney hotels, right? What hotels were built before those? I guess I'm curious of the progression between the lodges that so many love and the most recent two that so many dislike.

All DVC add ons or conversions

Last ground breakings prior were pop in 2001 and DAKL/gch in 98

 

[peter11435]

All DVC add ons or conversions

Last ground breakings prior were pop in 2001 and DAKL/gch in 98

Ground breaking for Pop was a couple years before 2001.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The official one was in 2001...I was there

There might have been site studies prior

 

[peter11435]

The official one was in 2001...I was there

There might have been site studies prior

Nope.

Pop was scheduled to open in 2001 and was nearly ready to before being delayed due to 9/11. Official groundbreaking was in 1999. By 2001 construction was well underway.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ok...I checked my dates

I was attached to the front office at Caribbean At the time and they did a dog and pony show in March or so of 2000. I was off by a year.

The 2001 date was already scrapped at that time (2001 was a really bad year at that point), the plan was to open in 2002. Eventually that was pushed to around 1/1/2004?

I think that is the sequence.

It was absolutely not ready by 9/2001...it was a dirtbog and concrete stalls at that point. I believe a pause was put in the construction prior to 9/2001. Again...that was an awful year.

 

[peter11435]

Ok...I checked my dates

I was attached to the front office at Caribbean At the time and they did a dog and pony show in March or so of 2000. I was off by a year.

The 2001 date was already scrapped at that time (2001 was a really bad year at that point), the plan was to open in 2002. Eventually that was pushed to around 1/1/2004?

I think that is the sequence.

It was absolutely not ready by 9/2001...it was a dirtbog and concrete stalls at that point. I believe a pause was put in the construction prior to 9/2001. Again...that was an awful year.

Theres a lot off in your post here.

In June of 2001 they opened reservations for the property for a December opening. They would not have done this if they had already decided a year earlier that the resort would not open in 2001.

They officially announced that the opening would be delayed in October 2001 and that’s when they began canceling reservations that had been booked for the resorts December opening.

The resort was much further along than dirt and concrete stalls by the fall of 2001.

Classic Years sat until eventually opening in December of 2003.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

I'm not sad this is getting shelved. It looked Riviera with a more woods themed room. Riviera is underwhelming and not worth the price of admission. Its not surprising that it isn't selling well. So with Reflections, I say "Good riddance."

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Theres a lot off in your post here.

In June of 2001 they opened reservations for the property for a December opening. They would not have done this if they had already decided a year earlier that the resort would not open in 2001.

They officially announced that the opening would be delayed in October 2001 and that’s when they began canceling reservations that had been booked for the resorts December opening.

The resort was much further along than dirt and concrete stalls by the fall of 2001.

Classic Years sat until eventually opening in December of 2003.

Where were you at this time, exactly?

You do know that bookings were way down after 2000 - millennial fallout and the delayed dot.com effect - correct?

Half the management at CBR was slated to go to POP in 2002...but were sent elsewhere.

Are you getting this from Vlogs?
Or is your name - in fact - “Paul”, “Erin”, “al” or “lee”??

If so...you’re my hero