Iger mentions plans for EPCOT

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
I understand their passion but they need to be realists. Unless they want Future World to be screens where the latest tech breakthroughs are displayed with info readily available on the internet.

For example, Spacex just tweeted that they intend to land a Dragon capsule on Mars in two years. This will become so commonplace in the next decade that it may be difficult to base a future attraction on such tech. Just my opinion.

"Future World" is being streamed live on the internet 24/7/365.
Okay, let me play devil's advocate here, as I have no stake per say as I am relatively new to here.

First, I do believe you can maintain a "Futuristic world" view, as you don't have to change exactly as thing move forward, as pointed out, you can maintain a certain look in celebration of making that view. Ex. your Mars idea. Now you would put in an area about reaching Mars and having homes there. Once that is achieved, you don't have to suddenly look to making a Jupiter area, you can instead celebrate the fact we have now achieved this until you get the next "futuristic" point of view. I get your "discovery" point of view, and I do think that could work, but that would only make it easier for WDI to ignore and not maintain IMO.

Now as for adding more IP in the park. If you look in the start of the Frozen move to Epcot thread, I was one of the early ones who said this is the new model for Epcot, as I see it, not to add new countries in WS but add IP in existing, tying in things like Ratatouille in France and so on. To me this was a quick way to bring new into WS, push Disney IP and maybe make it for fun for families with young kids. I was resoundingly pushed down for this point of view. And I understand why....as it is a complete change for what WS was meant to be. That being said, to fix Epcot you will have two choices for WS, go this IP route they seem to be following, or add new countries in the expansion spots and take over cost for upkeep from those sponsored countries. The latter would be prefered, as that would be what WS is meant for, but the previous would probably be what is done, as it would be a way for Disney to again leverage their IP.

Either way, Epcot is in dire need of fixing, you can't survive on festivals, and the space is withering away.

But to most's point of view here, you don't have to do IP only.
 

Wikkler

Well-Known Member
Poking my head back into the forums after a whirlwind quarter... Are my services of troll hunting needed? I rid the forums of one once...

On topic: I do think "Future World" needs to be changed to Discovery something something. UoE can easily be lost for something...better? Not IP related per se but.... something. Isn't Tokyo losing Storm Riders? I think make the West Side STEM and the East Side earth science...?

World Showcase needs a few more rides (like in Japan and France) and maybe two new pavilions with rides and shows.

I really just wanted to offer my troll hunting services.
Earth science is actually on the West Side.
Among the average guest Epcot no longer resonates. And Disney is wise to cater to the 99% of those who want parks they can relate to.

We here are the 1%, a small fraction of the customer base.
The first part is correct. The second part is not. The third part is.
There's a reason Disney opened EPCOT Center in the first place... They knew people would attend. People haven't changed as much as people say (but they still have changed...).
Joe can do no wrong in my eyes. Give him Epcot too.
If Joe Rohde came to Epcot I don't think he would do what you think he's going to do.
If you are choosing not to read the posts in this thread then why should I bother.
I really regret staying up until one-eh-em Monday night to write that post now.
Do people ride a ride because they want to be enlightened, to go on a journey, to gain insight about the world around them, with a character as a guide? I certainly would, but most people would ride that type of ride because it's just the [character/franchise] ride. It's the Nemo ride, the Frozen ride, the Ellen ride, not the ride about the wonders of the ocean, the culture of Norway (not like that one would feature it), or the science behind the energy that powers our houses and cars and computers.

It's the nature of characters that they generally will lean more towards fantasy, and the plots of their own movies, than serving the educational aspects of the ride. Did any of you think that the "Olaf gives a tour of Norway" ride could have actually happened?

Most guests don't associate Aladdin with Morocco, if they even know what Morocco is. They associate Aladdin with the classic movie with the Genie and the Flying Carpet and Jafar and Iago and Jasmine and Aladdin...

I love this post, but I have a few disagreements with it. I don't think Disney characters belong in Epcot, except maybe in Character Spot, and definitely not on the rides. Every replacement of an original ride with IP in Epcot has been a disaster, and most of them took away from the central theme of the pavilion.

The "modern audience" had no connection to The Snow Queen before Frozen. If the public could massively enjoy a movie featuring a new cast of characters and a new story instead of just the rehashing Hollywood thinks we want, then why couldn't Disney build a great revival of Journey Into Imagination or Cranium Command? Because they're not "Disney?"

You can't guarantee number two, no matter how hard you'll try. As for the other two, Disney thinks now that playing it safe is the only option. What happened to the daring Disney of the 60s through 90s? Where's the Disney that brought us original attractions like Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, Journey Into Imagination, and Horizons? Either dead or retired. The third (or is it fourth?) generation of Imagineers are here and they're focused on one thing: satisfying Iger, the IP Overlord.

This massive clusterlove that is today's Walt Disney World is just sad. I wonder why there's an armchair Imagineering outbreak right now? It's because Disney doesn't know how to do their own concepts justice. I might even catch a little of that fever.

Now to ponder your question. To amaze in this generation, where almost any piece of information is accessible in minutes or even seconds, is a truly difficult feat. Ellen's Energy Adventure isn't as fun (not that it ever was) if people search the answers to Jeopardy! on their phones. An EPCOT dark ride needs to provide insight on the topic rather than just a research project on it, especially in the age of Wikipedia.


EPCOT does need to abandon the "Future" World concept, but how could they rename it? Gardens of Wonder?

Almost every ride at EPCOT Center could have survived until now, and would be sorely needed in an educational park. Dreamfinder was like a "host" of a "documentary" if you will. An imaginative David Attenborough or some other notable type, taking us on a vivid journey into the wonders of imagination and creativity. I've said before that each pavilion needs an insight, some reason to ride instead of just using Google or Wikipedia, and if I made my own EPCOT that's what I would focus on. An update for the modern age, if I had my own EPCOT, would maybe touch upon how different arts are created. Music, paintings, sculpture, film, television, animation, even websites. Kids should be inspired to do great things. ImageWorks is also so needed. Kids need a creative outlet, and they would especially want one after riding a rejuvenated Journey into Imagination. The original ImageWorks was brilliant (but I can only experience it through video, never got the chance to go to EPCOT before it closed), but it's location wouldn't work in this day and age with the "go to the next ride unless there's something interesting in front of me" behavior of guests. The current location will do, just put in some better distractions.

The Seas, oh... The Seas. The Seas isn't a necessary pavilion to have, but it's nice. Please don't change the aquarium, but instead of Nemo, we need the original concept as planned. Neptune guiding us through the ocean and its wildlife would be just swell. I would love to travel to a coral reef, a kelp forest, or a deep trench. What would be the insight of a future Seas pavilion? How about sending the message of not wasting water, or maybe anti-pollution. There's a lot of bozos out there who just outright deny global warming is happening, but it has tangible effects that you can see for yourself. The Great Barrier Reef in Australia is a prime example. It's turning white. There are tons of possibilities, but please don't be preachy.

The main theme of The Land before Soarin' opened was agriculture and, due to the sponsor, food products. This day and age I think it's more appropriate to tell how to eat healthily than to tell how food is made... so, if I made my own EPCOT, I would split The Land in two pavilions, a geography pavilion similar to the original concept, and the other pavilion would be like a more health-oriented Wonders of Life. We know what the message of a health pavilion would be, but what would a geography pavilion teach? Acceptance of other cultures, possibly (this could work wonders with World Showcase!), or perhaps another environmental message. It would get boring after a while, but it's possibly the most important lesson that the next generation or two needs to learn... oh, and Circle of Life needs to die already.

World Showcase. An excellent idea. Let's showcase various cultures of the world. Seems simple, but execution is very important. I take issue with the selection of countries. Five countries are dedicated to Germanic cultures (Canada, United Kingdom, United States, Germany, and Norway). There's eleven countries, but only four continents are represented, and there are some civilizations/cultures that definitely need a representation. These include the Slavic cultures (examples include the Poles, Russians, and the people of Former Yugoslavia), the Sub-Saharan cultures (examples include the Zulu, Yoruba, and even the Malagasy), the Indian culture, and the Southeast Asian cultures (examples include the Malays, the Javanese, and Khmers). Some people will say, no doubt, that you can search on the Internet for info about these countries and cultures. There's a difference between taking a vacation and browsing a Wikipedia article. For the love of God, please don't put IPs in the countries, either!

Communication is a very important topic in today's interconnected world. An update to Spaceship Earth must touch more upon the Digital Revolution. The topic of history is very dominant in Spaceship Earth, but let's keep non-communication related info in another ride. A history ride would be very successful! Horizons was great, marvellous and all that, but it was doomed to fail. Talking about the future is a very 20th--century thing. We need the entire park to inspire us to shape the future. Maybe Horizons and the history ride could be merged. Let's talk about the replacement, Mission: SPACE. Space is something that should be reignited in the public consciousness. Images from the Hubble telescope still hold the public eye and the Mars rovers have been very publicized, but NASA has stopped the Space Shuttle program, and the International Space Station is almost 20 years old, and set to cease operations in eight years. This is one of the few themes where a simulator could actually be executed well, but you need a separate entrance and another attraction to attract the non-simulator crowd to get to exhibits. The Blue Marble is a compelling image, one that speaks of fragility but also of strength. A WALL-E ride in this pavilion? Inexcusable. Here's why: the movie fits the theme of the pavilion, but it's still an IP. If you want a WALL-E ride, you're going to get a ride about WALL-E falling in love with EVE, not about WALL-E discovering the wonders of the cosmos. Cosmos, cosmos, cosmos... Neil DeGrasse Tyson anyone?

On the topic of thrilling rides, we get to Test Track, which is inappropriate, but the park has too many dark rides otherwise. Transporation... it isn't actually that essential to the park. I just don't think it fits in. Energy on the other hand, definitely fits in, but also definitely needs an update. Okay, Disney, rides become dated quickly, but a cheap factual update every twenty years will not kill you, especially if you ditch the celebrities (they date the ride and make it harder to stay current decades after they are introduced into it). The update should include the alternative forms of energy that have come forward in the past three decades, such as solar energy and wind energy. Nuclear energy and hydroelectric energy could be worth talking about, but out of the EPCOT themes, energy is the most dull in my, and a lot of other people's, books.

These are just my ideas. I know, I'm being way too optimistic and armchair-y, and this post is too long already, blah, blah blah.
Most people like shorter, less meaningful posts... like this one.
Here's an embarrassing secret. I actually really love 80's synthesizers.
I hate that guy... at least he remembered "too long; didn't read"... so tl;dr: EPCOT Center good, Epcot bad.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
fbd857861bbda7ecf4561a3f3749d3ebc525071e1c38218b395c76640faf46d5.jpg
 

Oriolesmagic

Well-Known Member
There's certainly a middle-ground between adding IPs (like Disney seems so intent on doing) to EPCOT and maintaining the educational, futuristic atmosphere that we've all loved about EPCOT for years. Adding Inside Out as a Cranium Command-esque show to the old Captain EO theater? That's a considerable upgrade and I don't think anyone should be upset by that.

It's time that everyone realizes that adding IPs to attractions doesn't necessarily = bad. They just have to be utilized properly.
 
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Tavernacle12

Well-Known Member
There's certainly a middle-ground between adding IPs (like Disney seems so intent on doing) to EPCOT and maintaining the educational, futuristic atmosphere that we've all loved about EPCOT for years. Adding Inside Out as a Cranium Command-esque show to the old Captain EO theater? That's a considerable upgrade and I don't think anyone would be upset by that.

It's time that everyone realizes that adding IPs to attractions doesn't necessarily = bad. They just have to be utilized properly.

Agreed. Honestly one thing that does make me optimistic is that the rumored Inside Out and Tron at least feel like they sort of belong in Epcot. Tron can represent the digital age if done properly, and Inside Out can fit into Imagination or a Cranium Command style show easily. It depends on execution.

I saw someone add Guardians of the Galaxy to that list and... not so much there.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Here's a mystery I'm wondering about....In the 1978 Preview presentation they mention the Epcot Building Code.....Is this even used anymore or for anything for the resort today??

As already posted, the EPCOT Codes still exist and are the building codes that are enforced within the Reedy Creek Improvement District. They are named for the city EPCOT, not the park, and were part of the establishment of the Improvement District.
 

Wikkler

Well-Known Member
Agreed. Honestly one thing that does make me optimistic is that the rumored Inside Out and Tron at least feel like they sort of belong in Epcot. Tron can represent the digital age if done properly, and Inside Out can fit into Imagination or a Cranium Command style show easily. It depends on execution.

I saw someone add Guardians of the Galaxy to that list and... not so much there.
The ideal Epcot to many people is what Tomorrowland currently is, but with even more leveraged IP.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
There's certainly a middle-ground between adding IPs (like Disney seems so intent on doing) to EPCOT and maintaining the educational, futuristic atmosphere that we've all loved about EPCOT for years. Adding Inside Out as a Cranium Command-esque show to the old Captain EO theater? That's a considerable upgrade and I don't think anyone should be upset by that.

It's time that everyone realizes that adding IPs to attractions doesn't necessarily = bad. They just have to be utilized properly.
Or they could put the Cranium Command-esque Inside Out show into actual Cranium Command.
 

Admiral01

Premium Member
Future World in EPCOT Center was inspirational. For a decade and a half it managed to achieve that.

For those who say that Future World pavilions can't be updated because technology changes too fast - they managed to update Spaceship Earth TWICE (once in 1986 and again in 1994) and maintain it's inspirational message and slant to the future. Twice. Successfully.

Then the wand came...and then the E-surance commercial during the descent...

There was nothing wrong with EPCOT in the mid-90s that couldn't be fixed with upgrades and updates. Instead what we got was a full lobotomy, unnecessary heart surgery, and the soul being sucked out of the place. The loss of Horizons, which in my mind was EPCOT's soul, destroyed the place. It un-balanced the park and the park has yet to recover. For a company which makes billions of dollars each year, there is a straightforward solution to that...

A lack of variety hurts WDW. There is no need for MK 2.0 at EPCOT, but that is where they are driving. Nemo, Frozen, 90s Ellen, Honey I Crammed a Honey I Shrunk The Audience character into Imagination for unnecessary synergy, and the threat of of things like rats in France all hurt EPCOT. WDW management seems to forget that there are customers out there who don't care for the Magic Kingdom, and simply want a product that used to be offered.
 

Christian Fronckowiak

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
A lack of variety hurts WDW. There is no need for MK 2.0 at EPCOT, but that is where they are driving. Nemo, Frozen, 90s Ellen, Honey I Crammed a Honey I Shrunk The Audience character into Imagination for unnecessary synergy, and the threat of of things like rats in France all hurt EPCOT. WDW management seems to forget that there are customers out there who don't care for the Magic Kingdom, and simply want a product that used to be offered.
I don't think that The Walt Disney Company cares about those customers anymore. Look at Touchstone Pictures.
 

Soarin' Over Pgh

Well-Known Member
If Shanghai fails it may hurt in the short term but it could finally wipe the company clean of the remnants of Eisner's Strategic Planning group.

I don't think Disney will let it fail. The only way I can think of is the Shanghai govt' locking Disney out once the park is built. Even still...
 

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