Train to Port Canaveral possible

[CDavid]

This project has some huge hurdles to overcome, but it is progressing. At least so far, and that is more than can be said for most of the federal government funded "high-speed" rail projects that fell apart a few years back (including the poorly conceived Florida project).

If this project is done right it could lure many drivers off the road, even if it isn't significantly faster than driving. Travel time is seldom the primary reason people choose the train over other travel modes anyway.

An elevated track isn't necessary and would only serve to send costs soaring, but a grade-separated (no road crossings) route is important for high speed operation, if only because people can't seem to grasp the concept of flashing red lights and lowered gates mean "there's a train coming, stay out of the way".

That said, designing a route and actually starting major construction are two very different things. The line north of Miami along the coast has to be upgraded anyway for commuter and Amtrak traffic, so don't get too excited about this unless you see actual construction along the beach line.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

That's a good point. I didn't think about that. I guess most would have pre purchased a vacation package.

There are no true land & sea packages with Disney anymore. They are 2 separate bookings now. That said, one of the biggest things I ever hear mumbled about DCL as compared to other cruise lines is the premium (perceived or real) that DCL charges. Now personally I haven't seen a huge difference in cost between, for instance, DCL's Fantasy and RCI's Allure of the Seas but then I don't typically cruise during the busy times of year (summer & holidays). However, I do know in those high-demand times of year the cost differences between the cruise lines can be more significant. Linking WDW to Ft.Lauderdale would give families more options. Hope that makes sense.

 

[muteki]

That is the thing, current trains do not cost less. Quite frequently they cost more and that is on government subsidized Amtrak. (Flight from MCO to LAX $400 10 hours round trip. Car for same trip $680 36 hours round trip. Train for same trip $704 166 hours round trip.) If a private company can figure out how to cut costs and not get subsidies then my hat is off to them.

That's quite a different scale though. Topic is local/regional rail, I agree anyone would be crazy to get on anything but a plane from MCO to LAX, unless they have a lot of spare time on their hands. I think the prices would get closer once we start talking about a few cities or a state.

 

[Master Yoda]

That's quite a different scale though. Topic is local/regional rail, I agree anyone would be crazy to get on anything but a plane from MCO to LAX, unless they have a lot of spare time on their hands. I think the prices would get closer once we start talking about a few cities or a state.

Even local on Amtrak is out of whack. One way from Jacksonville is $31 and 3 hours. From station to station I can drive it in 2 at the cost of about $30. 50% more time and no cost savings will have me driving every time.

If they can improve on that it, grea, but I don't see it based on their own estimated transit time.

 

[CDavid]

Train for same trip $704 166 hours round trip.)

The train looks slow here because you have to change trains in both Chicago and Washington in both directions. If the Sunset Limited ran its full route on a reasonable schedule, LAX to ORL would be much faster.

 

[Master Yoda]

The train looks slow here because you have to change trains in both Chicago and Washington in both directions. If the Sunset Limited ran its full route on a reasonable schedule, LAX to ORL would be much faster.

Quite true, but driving is the time and price that you need to beat and current trains can't even do that on short runs. There is just no good way to sell "takes longer and costs more".

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

That is the thing, current trains do not cost less. Quite frequently they cost more and that is on government subsidized Amtrak. (Flight from MCO to LAX $400 10 hours round trip. Car for same trip $680 36 hours round trip. Train for same trip $704 166 hours round trip.) If a private company can figure out how to cut costs and not get subsidies then my hat is off to them.

All very true.

However this is a private firm putting this together, not the government that doesn't care spending our money. I would think (OK ...hope) they have done more research on it before committing their money.

Regarding the speed/ time, a lot of your *just as long as driving* is based on how many trains they run. The more trains run the less waiting. Also going right to the Airport means no delays in driving into the airport, no parking is needed , no walking to the terminals or waiting for buses. The train arrives right at the terminals.

You also have to take into account traffic issues!, rush hours, back ups, repairs, accidents. Trains are for the most part, usually on time these days.

The problem we have in our discussion right now is we don't have enough details.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I'm not sure connecting to WDW property would be the best idea for DCL. It would create opportunity for would-be DCL passengers at Port Canaveral to "jump ship" and opt for one of RCI's mammoth vessels. There are so many new, amazing ships that sail from Ft.Lauderdale. I honestly would think connecting WDW to that port could create an option that could pull away some guests from DCL.

Hi sweet pea!

(I wonder if you and I are the only ones that know where *sweet pea* is from???.*G*)

The other hand on that is, maybe it would have more passengers from other lines hopping on the train to get to WDW.


AKK

 

[Master Yoda]

All very true.

However this is a private firm putting this together, not the government that doesn't care spending our money. I would think (OK ...hope) they have done more research on it before committing their money.

Regarding the speed/ time, a lot of your *just as long as driving* is based on how many trains they run. The more trains run the less waiting. Also going right to the Airport means no delays in driving into the airport, no parking is needed , no walking to the terminals or waiting for buses. The train arrives right at the terminals.

You also have to take into account traffic issues!, rush hours, back ups, repairs, accidents. Trains are for the most part, usually on time these days.

The problem we have in our discussion right now is we don't have enough details.

AKK

The one detail we have is their estimated 3 hour travel time from Miami to MCO. The drive for that is just under 3.5 hours. If that 3 hours is train leaves Miami and arrives at MCO 3 hours later you still have to tack on getting to the train station, parking boarding etc. That could be 30-60 minutes easy putting us right back where we started.

I would hope that a private company would have thought this out, but it would not be the first time that someone let an idea get in the way of common sense. It is real easy to cherry pick data and twist market surveys to tell you whatever they want.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Hi sweet pea!

(I wonder if you and I are the only ones that know where *sweet pea* is from???.*G*)

The other hand on that is, maybe it would have more passengers from other lines hopping on the train to get to WDW.


AKK

Agreed. However, I know many choose the cruising because of the bang-for-the-buck. Breakdowns per person per day. WDW w/dining plan packages are typically pretty high on that scale. I suppose free dining would be that much more of a draw from an additional bucket. I dunno. It'd be a double edged sword for sure. I'd personally love to hop a train from MCO to PC. We'll see.


Does anyone else find humor in the thought that the number mentioned for building this rail project would be half the current cost of NextGen??? Talk about a perspective check!!!

 

[Master Yoda]

Agreed. However, I know many choose the cruising because of the bang-for-the-buck. Breakdowns per person per day. WDW w/dining plan packages are typically pretty high on that scale. I suppose free dining would be that much more of a draw from an additional bucket. I dunno. It'd be a double edged sword for sure. I'd personally love to hop a train from MCO to PC. We'll see.


Does anyone else find humor in the thought that the number mentioned for building this rail project would be half the current cost of NextGen??? Talk about a perspective check!!!

Not surprising at all when you consider the cost to do R&D and Disney's love for wasting money on things like $500 gallon burnt sienna paint made from unicorn tears when a $30 gallon of Bher at Home Depot would do just fine.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The one detail we have is their estimated 3 hour travel time from Miami to MCO. The drive for that is just under 3.5 hours. If that 3 hours is train leaves Miami and arrives at MCO 3 hours later you still have to tack on getting to the train station, parking boarding etc. That could be 30-60 minutes easy putting us right back where we started.

I would hope that a private company would have thought this out, but it would not be the first time that someone let an idea get in the way of common sense. It is real easy to cherry pick data and twist market surveys to tell you whatever they want.

Your very correct on the company cherry picking data, just as you pointed out on the sat. phone!

AKK

 

[matt9112]

Fear mongering in what manner? Much of this project is still up in the air, with FECI having already pushed back the start date to 2015. And there's nothing that says Disney will get in on the project either....

You are correct and hell it's really not Disney related except its in the same sate but it is a bit of news that I'm sure the OP was providing as he thought it noteworthy. I am not discrediting your comment just that I'm sure it was well intentioned to make mention of said plans.

 

[matt9112]

Not surprising at all when you consider the cost to do R&D and Disney's love for wasting money on things like $500 gallon burnt sienna paint made from unicorn tears when a $30 gallon of Bher at Home Depot would do just fine.

Really? I hope they don't.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Agreed. However, I know many choose the cruising because of the bang-for-the-buck. Breakdowns per person per day. WDW w/dining plan packages are typically pretty high on that scale. I suppose free dining would be that much more of a draw from an additional bucket. I dunno. It'd be a double edged sword for sure. I'd personally love to hop a train from MCO to PC. We'll see.


Does anyone else find humor in the thought that the number mentioned for building this rail project would be half the current cost of NextGen??? Talk about a perspective check!!!

I have seen that figure on $1 Billion for next gen, but I have never seen a official statement by Disney saying it is correct.

Is there really one, or is the figure rumor?

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

This project has some huge hurdles to overcome, but it is progressing. At least so far, and that is more than can be said for most of the federal government funded "high-speed" rail projects that fell apart a few years back (including the poorly conceived Florida project).

If this project is done right it could lure many drivers off the road, even if it isn't significantly faster than driving. Travel time is seldom the primary reason people choose the train over other travel modes anyway.

An elevated track isn't necessary and would only serve to send costs soaring, but a grade-separated (no road crossings) route is important for high speed operation, if only because people can't seem to grasp the concept of flashing red lights and lowered gates mean "there's a train coming, stay out of the way".

That said, designing a route and actually starting major construction are two very different things. The line north of Miami along the coast has to be upgraded anyway for commuter and Amtrak traffic, so don't get too excited about this unless you see actual construction along the beach line.

Well said, Agreed!

AKK

 

[Master Yoda]

Really? I hope they don't.

Yep. Really. When it comes to bang for buck in constructions projects, Disney is not very good.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

I have seen that figure on $1 Billion for next gen, but I have never seen a official statement by Disney saying it is correct.

Is there really one, or is the figure rumor?

I don't read enough of this stuff to know the particulars but the number I saw and was surprised by this morning was more along $3b. $1b was mentioned as the original estimate. I've heard $2b for some time now. $3b was all-new to me this morning but not necessarily unfathomable knowing that NGE continues to struggle along over this ever-growing length of time. Entire parks have been constructed in less time. So when I saw $1.5b & 2015 mentioned in a thread about a rail project that spans Miami to PC to MCO the first thing to my mind was "What a bargain!" and "Lightning fast construction schedule!" LOL!

 

[wm49rs]

You are correct and hell it's really not Disney related except its in the same sate but it is a bit of news that I'm sure the OP was providing as he thought it noteworthy. I am not discrediting your comment just that I'm sure it was well intentioned to make mention of said plans.

Well, familiarity with this OP has lead me to realize anything that can be vaguely associated with Disney in terms of rail (or especially monorails) would be posted as breaking news by him, regardless of how tenuous the connection. But, I've also said my peace on the matter....

 

[matt9112]

Yep. Really. When it comes to bang for buck in constructions projects, Disney is not very good.

Economics would suggest that this is a trend with company's that grow very large rather quickly. The United States government is a good example althought there's other motives in that case such as the lack of incentive to be productive. Contracts with company's and vendors also bring this problem as it limits competition allowing in this case the paint supplier to charge whatever because Disney will buy it regardless. Yet they cut costs on napkins? They really need to go through all these things with some kind of internal audit. He'll the Reedy creek arrangement should lower project costs. Stepping away from the table for a few minutes can often allow somebody to make a better decision. Until the Disney IMAGE gets tarnished there's no need for that though...look at all of us....we still go, many of us quite often. And think of all those people myself included who have made Disney a family affair. Also the local competition still is not on the same scale. I enjoy uni a lot and they have made huge inroads but there still two parks with two resorts (rumors aside) disneys scope is one of the factors.