"Escape from Tomorrow" guerilla film shot inside WDW

flynnibus

Premium Member
Apparently legal experts disagree with you by saying that under satire, parody, fair use, . . . the guy might be in the clear with what he did. If so, Disney might well add conditions to people entering the parks, nothing illegal about doing that.

1- it's superfluous because they don't need to announce it to have that right. They have it already by the nature of it being their property.
2- this comment has nothing to do with fair use or not

Are you saying that somebody can't videotape the Naked Cowboy as part of a documentary/movie about New York?

No - go back and re-read the post

And you are rewriting the scenario when you start using the exception cases by making it a 'documentary' and just confusing the whole thing because obviously that is nothing like what I described.

I am not a lawyer but its obvious I know a lot more about this than a lot of people here.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Doesn't make sense . . . he doesn't need an editing room, he can do it on a computer, but he leaves the country. Must be paranoid on a psychiatric level.

Because the going offshore provided him secrecy and protection from Disney being able to seize the material. Being shutdown in the states poised the risk of having the material all frozen/held up in the courts. Doing it outside the reaches of typical intellectual property laws and away from Disney and its friends provided a safe haven where he had a better chance of completing the project.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
Doesn't make sense . . . he doesn't need an editing room, he can do it on a computer, but he leaves the country. Must be paranoid on a psychiatric level.

From the Los Angeles Times - http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...and-randy-moore-release-20130118,0,4296.story -
The director has been living the last three years in a state of heightened tension, fearful that Disney would find out about his stealth project and try to quash it.

The filmmaker strongly encouraged anyone who worked on the film not to tell anyone, not even close friends, what they were working on. He was so nervous about a potential blabbermouth at a postproduction house that he took the movie to South Korea to edit, where he has been traveling to, on and off, from Los Angeles for the last two years.

 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
1- it's superfluous because they don't need to announce it to have that right. They have it already by the nature of it being their property.
2- this comment has nothing to do with fair use or not


I am not a lawyer but its obvious I know a lot more about this than a lot of people here.

I don't think Disney has the inherent right to ban all video taping, for a variety of purposes, commercial or otherwise, on their property. The lawyer in the New Yorker article argued that "fair use" allows certain types of video taping . . . so either you are wrong, or the guy in the New Yorker is wrong.

Unless you're a lawyer, it is hard to see how you, "know a lot more about this than a lot of people on here."

Bottom Line: This is a grey area in the law, and fair use may apply.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Because the going offshore provided him secrecy and protection from Disney being able to seize the material. Being shutdown in the states poised the risk of having the material all frozen/held up in the courts. Doing it outside the reaches of typical intellectual property laws and away from Disney and its friends provided a safe haven where he had a better chance of completing the project.

Since he hadn't displayed the video yet at a film festival, he had at that point done no worse than the millions of other guests who videotape themselves. There is no "conspiracy to publicly display a privately shot video", sorry.

And it's not traditional film either, but *digital* media. He probably has tons of copies/works in progress, stashed around various places. When he finished the project, he no doubt hide copies of it, perhaps some overseas. At any rate, I doubt any lawsuit would involve seizing said material, but rather would involve a prohibition against exhibition in the United States.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
From the LA Times article:

The filmmaker strongly encouraged anyone who worked on the film not to tell anyone, not even close friends, what they were working on. He was so nervous about a potential blabbermouth at a postproduction house that he took the movie to South Korea to edit, where he has been traveling to, on and off, from Los Angeles for the last two years.

“It got really tense for a while,” Moore said of his home and personal life. His wife knew what he was up to; many friends didn’t.

He was concerned about a "blabbermouth", I think his big concern was that Disney would get wind of the project and try to stop it being shown at Sundance, not that they would burst into the editing room and seize the film. He could complete the project in the states, but he might face resistance at Sundance.

Irregardless, the big hurdle is getting the folks at Sundance to show the film, albeit various trademark/fair use/first amendment issues.

This guy, similar to Adam Woo, seemed to love the "hunt and chase" of actually going overseas to try to avoid anybody hearing about the project, in a sort of grandiose type way. He also spent $1 million of an inheritance on the film. Perhaps a good investment if he is a talented director who wants to get noticed.

Once the film was considered for Sundance, submitted, whatever, Disney may very well have gotten word of it . . . and they might have realized the problem of embarassing videotaping on the property (illegal backstage or otherwise) and it may have lead to Adam Woo being rounded up and banned. Interesting timeline.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I don't think Disney has the inherent right to ban all video taping, for a variety of purposes, commercial or otherwise, on their property. The lawyer in the New Yorker article argued that "fair use" allows certain types of video taping . . . so either you are wrong, or the guy in the New Yorker is wrong.

Again.. your logic path is so jumbled I question why I even bother replying..

You keep bringing fair use into your responses.. when the original comment BY YOU was
"One thing Disney could do it make guests sign paperwork (or perhaps fine print on the ticket) which says that they will not photograph/videotape anything in the park for commercial profits"
  1. Such a claim would have no merit against 'fair use' applications - so it's pointless in those cases (and why its so mind boggling why you keep bringing 'fair use' up.. you are crossing your points). If its allowed by fair use, any such printed claims are worthless in stopping it. You can't policy your way out of fair use.
  2. Such a claim is not necessary to assert your right over controlling commercial enterprise on your own property
  3. Such a claim is not necessary to empower Disney to be able to ask anyone they chose to stop filming and leave the property.
Such a claim adds no value or additional protections - so as I said its superfluous.

It doesn't matter if you are filming with the intent of later creating a work protected under fair use. Disney can still ask you to stop filming and throw you off the property. 'Fair Use' protects your CREATED work, it does not supersede the rights of privacy or private property.

Bottom Line: This is a grey area in the law, and fair use may apply.

Fair Use is about the WORK - not the act of creating one and would provide no additional privileges to the question of what you are physically allowed (or Disney is) to do while on Disney property. You don't seem to grasp the difference between what you create vs what a property owner is allowed. They both apply here, but separately.

As for Tim Wu claiming the WORK (not the filming action.. the artistic work) is protected under 'Fair Use' - as I said in an earlier post.. I think it's dubious based on the plot summations I've read.. and Tim Wu isn't anything close to an objective indepedent. He is a huge advocate, and heavily vested, in liberal interpretations of IP law.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
From the LA Times article:

The filmmaker strongly encouraged anyone who worked on the film not to tell anyone, not even close friends, what they were working on. He was so nervous about a potential blabbermouth at a postproduction house that he took the movie to South Korea to edit, where he has been traveling to, on and off, from Los Angeles for the last two years.

“It got really tense for a while,” Moore said of his home and personal life. His wife knew what he was up to; many friends didn’t.

He was concerned about a "blabbermouth", I think his big concern was that Disney would get wind of the project and try to stop it being shown at Sundance, not that they would burst into the editing room and seize the film. He could complete the project in the states, but he might face resistance at Sundance.

Maybe I just read it differently, but based on the sentence immediately before that which said:
The director has been living the last three years in a state of heightened tension, fearful that Disney would find out about his stealth project and try to quash it.
Which I took to mean that he was afraid Disney would shut it down entirely, there was no mention of a "blabbermouth", nor resistance at Sundance.

Regardless, the film has already been shown at Sundance, more than once, I might add, so apparently there is no hurdle there. Getting it shown outside of Sundance will be the next hurdle.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Maybe I just read it differently, but based on the sentence immediately before that which said:
The director has been living the last three years in a state of heightened tension, fearful that Disney would find out about his stealth project and try to quash it.
Which I took to mean that he was afraid Disney would shut it down entirely, there was no mention of a "blabbermouth", nor resistance at Sundance.

Regardless, the film has already been shown at Sundance, more than once, I might add, so apparently there is no hurdle there. Getting it shown outside of Sundance will be the next hurdle.

Yeah, kinda hard to figure out what the guy was thinking, or what legal advice he may have solicited prior to production of the film.

Certainly, it is not illegal to go with friends to WDW and shot them acting in a goofy movie, or even a very well produced movie. You obviously can't put up production equipment and close down areas of the park, but videotaping is ok and tons of families make home videos of various qualities. If I wanted to, (and I had enough money), I could hire a dozen extras and a professional director to film me on all my vacations using a variety of storylines.

Even if Disney knew he was filming some sort of video beyond a home movie, they can't walk up to him and ask, "you seem to know your way around a camera, you have to give it up to security." Being a private property, they might be able to kick him off property for no specific reason, but given the number of people filming at the parks, they'd need to hire hundreds of castmembers to be "watchers."

The big concern with Disney was keeping the film from being exhibited, I would guess, and to keep it out of theaters, that's downstream from editing, doing post-production work on a film that has already been shot. After you leave the parks, Disney can't bust into your home with the Goofy police and ask you to stop professionally editing a video you shot in the park.

The police would not get involved as there is no, "conspiracy to professionally edit and exhibit a video shot in a Disney theme park."
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Since he hadn't displayed the video yet at a film festival, he had at that point done no worse than the millions of other guests who videotape themselves. There is no "conspiracy to publicly display a privately shot video", sorry.

All it takes is Disney getting the process started, convincing a judge for getting some injunctions in place, and the guy's project would in effect be 'frozen'. He would be invested in time and money.. with no end in sight to being able to complete the project. His project would ultimately be strangled and wouldn't be completed. By moving offshore, he aimed ensured his project would actually be completed and would be much harder to ultimately bury as a completed work vs raw footage.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
You keep bringing fair use into your responses.. when the original comment BY YOU was
"One thing Disney could do it make guests sign paperwork (or perhaps fine print on the ticket) which says that they will not photograph/videotape anything in the park for commercial profits"
  1. Such a claim would have no merit against 'fair use' applications - so it's pointless in those cases (and why its so mind boggling why you keep bringing 'fair use' up.. you are crossing your points). If its allowed by fair use, any such printed claims are worthless in stopping it. You can't policy your way out of fair use.

I would disagree, and again you aren't a lawyer so anything you say on the matter is conjecture from a lay person. I'm not a lawyer, but I know lawyers, and have experience in a professional setting with how lawyers ply their trade.

I am speaking from a hypothetical, but Disney as a private property owner certainly can set preconditions for entrance to the parks and have would-be customers sign them if they want to get inside. There is no right to visit a Disney theme park as Adam Woo has found out.

If a precondition of entering a Disney park is that you can't not make $$$ off of the park, then you entered a special contrat with Disney for the duration of your stay on the property. Now, if somebody broke such an obligation, I'm sure lawyers could bring it up in court.

If you are aware of how prenups and contracts work, nothing is 100% bullet proof . . . its just another layer of protection for Disney.

Folks working on the New Star Trek movie had to sign paperwork regarding filming with iPhones on set, revealing things . . . I don't think they can cry "fair use" if they break this contract.

Obviously, Flynn, you aren't in any position to say what would be legal with regards to preconditions for entrance to a theme park as you aren't a lawyer! So, no need to get snarky/uppity and make others feel like you some how have a better grasp on the issue.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
Y
Certainly, it is not illegal to go with friends to WDW and shot them acting in a goofy movie, or even a very well produced movie. You obviously can't put up production equipment and close down areas of the park, but videotaping is ok and tons of families make home videos of various qualities. If I wanted to, (and I had enough money), I could hire a dozen extras and a professional director to film me on all my vacations using a variety of storylines.

Filming isn't prohibited nor against the law, as far as I know, but using that film for your own commercial profitability, can be construed as stealing, if you filmed characters or used images or music that was created by someone else. The owner of those images, in this case Disney, could seek damages (re-payment), or even ask a judge to stop you from further profiting. They have done this many times in the past against daycare facilities, un-authorized costumed characters outside the parks and music used without permission. The key here is the judge and how he would look at the use of their created images.

The big concern with Disney was keeping the film from being exhibited, I would guess, and to keep it out of theaters, that's downstream from editing, doing post-production work on a film that has already been shot. After you leave the parks, Disney can't bust into your home with the Goofy police and ask you to stop professionally editing a video you shot in the park.

I haven't seen or heard anything that would suggest Disney or he was concerned about the film being exhibited. I think he said he was concerned about their discovering what he was doing (meaning he knew he was probably in the wrong, or skirting their approval), and was afraid they would find out and try to stop the production from ever being finished. Of course Disney can't burst into your home and take your stuff, that's just preposterous to even suggest, and I don't think that's what he or anybody else was saying. However, if he was renting studio space for green screen, post editing, music recording, etc, Disney carries a lot of weight and could easily make a call to a producer or owner of a studio and suggest that it might not be in their best (future) interest to work on the project, which could effectively shut it down.

The police would not get involved as there is no, "conspiracy to professionally edit and exhibit a video shot in a Disney theme park."

I'm not even sure what this means. I don't think there is any law that would come close to applying to such a "conspiracy", so why would the police even care? The only issue here for the law would be if the filmmaker tries to publish or distribute the video and make a profit. But, merely exhibiting something like this, isn't necessarily a violation of any laws, unless you use characters, images, music or other created works that don't belong to you, without the copyright/trademark holder's approval.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
All it takes is Disney getting the process started, convincing a judge for getting some injunctions in place, and the guy's project would in effect be 'frozen'. He would be invested in time and money.. with no end in sight to being able to complete the project. His project would ultimately be strangled and wouldn't be completed. By moving offshore, he aimed ensured his project would actually be completed and would be much harder to ultimately bury as a completed work vs raw footage.

There isn't a "conspiracy to professionally edit a video, or a conspiracy to professionally edit and possibly exhibit a video." What Disney would need is something printed from Sundance informing the world that they are going to screen a video shot on Disney property. Presumably the guy wasn't communicating with Sundance during post-production, and even if he was the judge's order would most likely be to *not exhibit* the film, not to stop work on the film as the film is private property and he can edit it all he likes.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I would disagree, and again you aren't a lawyer so anything you say on the matter is conjecture from a lay person. I'm not a lawyer, but I know lawyers, and have experience in a professional setting with how lawyers ply their trade.

Just because I'm not a lawyer doesn't mean I don't have familiarity with the subject nor that I don't have one on one access to lawyers. But that's not really the point - but all you can do to counter the facts is say 'well you aren't a lawyer'. That's fine.. live in ignorance if you chose. That too is a protected in this country..

I am speaking from a hypothetical, but Disney as a private property owner certainly can set preconditions for entrance to the parks and have would-be customers sign them if they want to get inside. There is no right to visit a Disney theme park as Adam Woo has found out.

If a precondition of entering a Disney park is that you can't not make $$$ off of the park, then you entered a special contrat with Disney for the duration of your stay on the property. Now, if somebody broke such an obligation, I'm sure lawyers could bring it up in court.

Jesus dude.. SUPERFLUOUS
su·per·flu·ous

/so͞oˈpər-fləəs/

Adjective
Unnecessary, esp. through being more than enough.

Synonyms
redundant - unnecessary - needless - odd - surplus

What you suggest is akin to writing on the ticket "No one should assault or kill any other guests while on property".


What you suggest is akin to putting on the ticket "No one should assault or kill any other guests while on property" - It is unnecessary, adds no new protections, and doesn't change any enforcement.

Folks working on the New Star Trek movie had to sign paperwork regarding filming with iPhones on set, revealing things . . . I don't think they can cry "fair use" if they break this contract.

Again - completely different area and use. The reason for such paperwork in that case is about controlling DISCLOSURE - not to introduce new protections for copyright or IP. While the scenes in the movie may be the IP property of the studio/production companies.. someone could use the imagery for uses protected under fair use. So a NDA is used to introduce a contract agreement between the parties that makes the party agree to not share or disclose any of the material as a condition of employment or access to the area. By doing so, the person has explicitly agreed to not disclose the information to other parties.

You aren't grasping the different layers and why things are.. instead just looking at the end game and say 'they look similar...'
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Filming isn't prohibited nor against the law, as far as I know, but using that film for your own commercial profitability, can be construed as stealing, if you filmed characters or used images or music that was created by someone else. The owner of those images, in this case Disney, could seek damages (re-payment), or even ask a judge to stop you from further profiting.

We've been discussing this issue in this thread. Much more precisely, the issue is trademark with regards to the filming. The legal charge would not be "stealing."

They have done this many times in the past against daycare facilities, un-authorized costumed characters outside the parks and music used without permission. The key here is the judge and how he would look at the use of their created images.

There are various shades of grey, nuances, in the legal profession. Lawyers have chimed in on this thread regarding trademark violations, free speech, fair use . . . this issue isn't as straight forward as just reproducing Disney characters on a daycare wall.

I haven't seen or heard anything that would suggest Disney or he was concerned about the film being exhibited. I think he said he was concerned about their discovering what he was doing (meaning he knew he was probably in the wrong, or skirting their approval), and was afraid they would find out and try to stop the production from ever being finished. Of course Disney can't burst into your home and take your stuff, that's just preposterous to even suggest, and I don't think that's what he or anybody else was saying. However, if he was renting studio space for green screen, post editing, music recording, etc, Disney carries a lot of weight and could easily make a call to a producer or owner of a studio and suggest that it might not be in their best (future) interest to work on the project, which could effectively shut it down.

I think a reasonable person would, in good common sense, conclude that Disney isn't happy about the film being exhibited. And said reasonable person would probably also conclude that Disney would like the film to go unnoticed by the public or not be shown at all. The rub is whether Disney can legally do, whether they would legally try to do this, and a host of other interesting issues.

I think the product was legitimately concerned that Disney would take away his AP (which he had in order to visit the park so much to film), and perhaps they could do as private businesses can refuse patrons for a variety of reasons.

Once the filming in the park was done, I would agree that this guy had video in his personal possession that he could do whatever editing he wanted without Disney's approval. I don't think needed a lot of post-production work done, (there was some greenscreen work done), and he could have finished it on his computer as some have suggested, but I think that major concern was that Disney, when it was clear that he intended to exhibit the film, would file a lawsuit against Sundance.

As it turns out, Disney did not do this, for whatever reason. Given that Disney has a bank of lawyers, when it was announced that the film was going to be exhibited, they *perhaps* could have asked for an immediate injunction. I'm not a lawyer, but it is possible that the Disney lawyers could have concluded that they couldn't make the case for an immediate injunction, even though they might have had a case for a trial.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Jesus dude.. SUPERFLUOUS
su·per·flu·ous

/so͞oˈpər-fləəs/

Adjective
Unnecessary, esp. through being more than enough.

Synonyms
redundant - unnecessary - needless - odd - surplus

What you suggest is akin to writing on the ticket "No one should assault or kill any other guests while on property".

What you suggest is akin to putting on the ticket "No one should assault or kill any other guests while on property" - It is unnecessary, adds no new protections, and doesn't change any enforcement.

A little histrionic Flynn, but no, I don't think that such a precondition would be superfluous as I, and the legal expert in the New Yorker, believe that the film maker had the right to do what he did in the park under fair use, and yes, I am postulating that a precondition/contract supersedes fair use.

Contracts often have a way of taking away "rights" as you don't have to work for a certain person/company, or enter a theme park.

You are not a lawyer so you really wouldn't be the person to ask about this.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
There isn't a "conspiracy to professionally edit a video, or a conspiracy to professionally edit and possibly exhibit a video." What Disney would need is something printed from Sundance informing the world that they are going to screen a video shot on Disney property. Presumably the guy wasn't communicating with Sundance during post-production, and even if he was the judge's order would most likely be to *not exhibit* the film, not to stop work on the film as the film is private property and he can edit it all he likes.

Isn't this all kind of irrelevant considering the film has already been shown at Sundance? I mean, what's the point of the argument here? You can't reverse or un-show what's already shown. And as far as Sundance goes, anybody with film credits can submit a work to be shown, but they don't require you to divulge the full story or content prior to showing, although, they do screen the films and select which ones will be shown, but it's based on a slew of criteria which they consider.

I should add to that the Sundance Institute has a policy for submissions where they encourage the filmmaker to get the necessary authorities and permissions for displaying of other copyrighted works in the film, but they do not enforce nor hold any liability for it.

From the Sundance 2013 submission guidlines:
It is the sole responsibility of the Applicant to secure authorization and permission from the copyright owner(s) of any and all copyrighted content or materials included within the submitted Film. The Institute expressly disavows any responsibility for, and will not be held responsible for, any unauthorized inclusion of any copyrighted content or materials within or relating to the submitted Film, including any content or materials that are or may become the basis for any third party claims for copyright infringement. The Institute reserves the right to disqualify, without refund of any or all submission fees previously collected from the Applicant, any Film with any unauthorized inclusion of copyrighted content or materials. In the event that any claim, dispute, action or proceeding shall be brought or asserted by any person or entity that alleges that the Film makes unauthorized or unlawful use of any copyrighted content or material, Applicant shall fully indemnify and defend the Institute, the Festival, and each of their representatives and affiliates from any liability in connection therewith and from any fees and expenses, including but not limited to attorneys’ fees, that any of them may incur in connection therewith.
It is the sole responsibility of the Applicant to secure authorization and permission from the owner(s) of any and all trademarked content or materials included within the submitted Film.
It is the sole responsibility of the Applicant to clear all content of the Film from any and all actual or potential legal claims and issues, including, without limitation, claims based upon theories of libel, defamation, invasion of privacy, violation of rights of publicity, theft of trade secrets, breach of confidence, breach of confidential relationship, and breach of express or implied contract (“Third Party Claim(s)”).

So, by their own rules, this film would seem to be in violation, but they clearly aren't concerned, since it has been shown already. Along these lines, I would think that IF Disney were aloof or cared about this, they could have petitioned Sundance not to show it and uphold their own rules, once word of it got out, which may not have happened until after it was initially shown.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Isn't this all kind of irrelevant considering the film has already been shown at Sundance? I mean, what's the point of the argument here? You can't reverse or un-show what's already shown. And as far as Sundance goes, anybody with film credits can submit a work to be shown, but they don't require you to divulge the full story or content prior to showing, although, they do screen the films and select which ones will be shown, but it's based on a slew of criteria which they consider.

I should add to that the Sundance Institute has a policy for submissions where they encourage the filmmaker to get the necessary authorities and permissions for displaying of other copyrighted works in the film, but they do not enforce nor hold any liability for it.

From the Sundance 2013 submission guidlines:
It is the sole responsibility of the Applicant to secure authorization and permission from the copyright owner(s) of any and all copyrighted content or materials included within the submitted Film. The Institute expressly disavows any responsibility for, and will not be held responsible for, any unauthorized inclusion of any copyrighted content or materials within or relating to the submitted Film, including any content or materials that are or may become the basis for any third party claims for copyright infringement. The Institute reserves the right to disqualify, without refund of any or all submission fees previously collected from the Applicant, any Film with any unauthorized inclusion of copyrighted content or materials. In the event that any claim, dispute, action or proceeding shall be brought or asserted by any person or entity that alleges that the Film makes unauthorized or unlawful use of any copyrighted content or material, Applicant shall fully indemnify and defend the Institute, the Festival, and each of their representatives and affiliates from any liability in connection therewith and from any fees and expenses, including but not limited to attorneys’ fees, that any of them may incur in connection therewith.
It is the sole responsibility of the Applicant to secure authorization and permission from the owner(s) of any and all trademarked content or materials included within the submitted Film.
It is the sole responsibility of the Applicant to clear all content of the Film from any and all actual or potential legal claims and issues, including, without limitation, claims based upon theories of libel, defamation, invasion of privacy, violation of rights of publicity, theft of trade secrets, breach of confidence, breach of confidential relationship, and breach of express or implied contract (“Third Party Claim(s)”).

So, by their own rules, this film would seem to be in violation, but they clearly aren't concerned, since it has been shown already. Along these lines, I would think that IF Disney were aloof or cared about this, they could have petitioned Sundance not to show it and uphold their own rules, once word of it got out, which may not have happened until after it was initially shown.

The nonsensical issue that is being debating is that the guy did the film in South Korea because he was afraid that a judge would order the film seized. (I don't believe this could be legally done at that stage, especially as Sundance didn't know.) I am simply saying that he most likely did it in South Korea because he was paranoid that Disney would stop exhibition, not postproduction work.

In essence, the guy was trying to make sure Disney legal was late to the party. It does take time to write up the paperwork, and more importantly, to discuss with the brass how they will tackle the issue.

The film is not technically in violation as Disney has not yet, as far as I am aware, raised legal objection to the film.

"any Film with any unauthorized inclusion of copyrighted content or materials. In the event that any claim, dispute, action or proceeding shall be brought or asserted by any person or entity that alleges that the Film makes unauthorized or unlawful use of any copyrighted content or material,"

The third party has to cry foul, Sundance will not make a judgement call regarding what is, or isn't, trademark/copyright infringement. Disney didn't need a judge to stop the film being shown at Sundance, they just needed to complain. I think most people would say they didn't because they didn't want the negative publicity and to give the filmaker/film more fame.
 

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
So, by their own rules, this film would seem to be in violation, but they clearly aren't concerned, since it has been shown already. Along these lines, I would think that IF Disney were aloof or cared about this, they could have petitioned Sundance not to show it and uphold their own rules, once word of it got out, which may not have happened until after it was initially shown.

Undoubtedly so. If Disney had asked Sundance to yank the film, which they would have done in a heart beat no doubt, it would have been all over the newspapers as Sudance is a well known film festival, and some people would have wanted to see the film just to see what the controversy is about.

Worst Case Scenario for Disney: Sundance pulls the film, people get interested in film and it becomes la raison du jour for first ammendent rights activists, and Disney loses in court, i.e. a judge rules it is fair use (or Disney legal figures they can't win), and the film is distributed in theaters around the country.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
We've been discussing this issue in this thread. Much more precisely, the issue is trademark with regards to the filming. The legal charge would not be "stealing."

Sorry, I was trying to keep it simple. You're right, it would not legally be called "stealing", I believe it would be "copyright infringement" - As a general matter, copyright infringement occurs when a copyrighted work is reproduced, distributed, performed, publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without the permission of the copyright owner. - U.S. Copyright Office.

Essentially, though it's stealing, or taking/using something that doesn't belong to you. Call it what you want, but it's still a matter that can be pursued by the owner.

There are various shades of grey, nuances, in the legal profession. Lawyers have chimed in on this thread regarding trademark violations, free speech, fair use . . . this issue isn't as straight forward as just reproducing Disney characters on a daycare wall.

Based on the definition above, I would think it's pretty clear, IF he used images, characters, music or anything else in the film that he didn't have Disney's permission to use.

I think the product was legitimately concerned that Disney would take away his AP (which he had in order to visit the park so much to film), and perhaps they could do as private businesses can refuse patrons for a variety of reasons.

And it would certainly be within their rights to do so, whether or not he was violating posted rules, they could at any time have asked him and the rest to leave.

As it turns out, Disney did not do this, for whatever reason. Given that Disney has a bank of lawyers, when it was announced that the film was going to be exhibited, they *perhaps* could have asked for an immediate injunction. I'm not a lawyer, but it is possible that the Disney lawyers could have concluded that they couldn't make the case for an immediate injunction, even though they might have had a case for a trial.

Probably because they didn't find out about it, until it made news, afterwhich they couldn't do a whole lot. I'm guessing they're evaluating options right now and watching to see what happens next, and then they will determine how/if they should proceed.
 

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