Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Admiral01]

"Mission:Space" for all it's controversy begat a ride system that was wholly unique (sustained G Force), designed to simulate the launch experience. I'm proud of that aspect, and like Pooh in TDL is wholly unique and takes risks (If they succeed is another discussion). The company replaced the emotional moments we had written in to have more "thrill" as a gesture toward a younger audience and to "give them what they want". (I quit WDI while both Pooh and MS were in production).

Mission: SPACE is really an incredible experience, that took a lot of technological and engineering creativity. As an aerospace engineer who has experienced real zero-gravity, and real increased-g's as a test-flight engineer (see NASA Vomit Comet) I can appreciate the experience that M:S gives. You and the Imagineers have every right to be proud of the experience you helped to create. Heck, I would love to see the whole experience expanded with the "visiting Mars" theme. Plus, it is always nice to get the general public interested in space travel...

I think there is a problem, however, with replacing emotion with thrills, though. Imagination and Horizons were the heart and soul (respectively) of EPCOT, and both are lost, leaving EPCOT with fun and thrills, but not a lot of what made gave it the most memorable "wow" moments. I think we sometimes forget that Disney does emotion and heart well, and in that Disney is able to make both thrilling. We don't necessarily need Pixar characters on LCD screens and interactive elements to be entertained. I was 1 year, 6 months, and 30 days old when EPCOT opened (first visit was in October 1983), and from the first day I remember the park it was my favorite. I was part of a "younger" crowd, but didn't need the emotionless thrills that are part of the park currently.

You tried to inject creativity into Imagineering, and we all appreciate that. Even with all it's downsides, I think your job at Disney is one that many of us would love to have at one point or another. Thank you for continuing to share your thoughts and experiences with us all.

 

[WDW1974]

Don't get me wrong... I don't necesarily agree with the changes Disney makes on a personal level but I do understand it on a business level. While I don't sit and cry nightly over the loss of Horizons or the Original Imagination pavilion, I don't think that they need to make everything teenager friendly either with an interactive component. At the end of the day Disney is a big corporation who answers to their shareholders. Money rules the world, whether we like it or not, and will continue to be the driving force behind their decisions.

Money has always been a driver, but not like we've seen in the past 15 years. There is no long term drive for value and quality in this (or most) companies because 'the Street' only cares about the price of a share today the next quarter's results. That short term thinking is toxic to a creative dream factory like WDI and an entertainment company, period.

For a company that likes to throw around terms like dreams, wishes and magic until they have utterly no meaning at all, it can be a long march toward mediocrity or worse.

The details ... the Disney Details ... are constantly being tugged at, pulled at and cut out everytime Iger (or Eisner before him) needs to show they're running a 'lean, mean' ship and 'cutting fat' ... I've often said (my regular fans know this) that WDW lost its last fat over a decade ago and now every cut is muscle or bone. The fiber of what makes Disney, Disney. (I'll give you a hint, it's not stale parks with slovenly, unhappy, underpaid CMs and attractions that are not maintained).

And the bottom line is, at some point any corporation that truly values its heritage, quality content and PEOPLE will have to decide whether it keeps whoring itself for the analysts and institutional investors and daytraders by lowering the bar annually in a quest to 'be competitive'. Wall Street hasn't exactly played by the rules (the real reason our economy is where it is at) yet corporations should feel compelled to worry about every whisper by every analyst?

I don't consider it "walmarting" if they make something more audience friendly by changing it's theme or lesson as long as they do it well. I consider walmarting to be something along the lines of Imagination. You took something good, and turned it in to a mess because you thought the money in your pocket at the time was better than investing in it for the long term. Now they have a pavilion that they couldn't pay people to go to.

Walmarting, as I've used the term for many moons, is more of a lowering of standards and quality across the board and lowering expectations of guests and cast about the process.

When I look at WDW over the past decade I'm at a loss at finding anything that was a WOW! for me that was added/replaced at the parks. There have been some decent things, but I expect more than that ...

And that goes to your above point, as I also have no problem with changes provided they IMPROVE on what was there before. I don't see much of that at WDW. ... And, again, I have seen what Disney can do in other places and there is a big (HUGE if you include Tokyo) difference in just doing the basics.

It seemed that this was a trend for some time in the Pressler/Rasulo era, but I personally believe that things are starting to really look up now. While technology is being incorporated in a number of the big ideas for the future I think that theme and story are becoming major forces again and for now I like what I see.

I am on the fence myself. I see some great things elsewhere ... from Asia to Anaheim ... heck, from Hawaii to the new cruise ships. But at WDW?
I just don't see much beyond what will be a nicer looking Fantasyland in two years. They got too big, too fast and haven't figured out how to keep the parks fresh.

Just look at MK parades ... a 1972 night parade and a 2001 day parade ... in 2011? Yeah, they sure are trying ...

And while Staggs appears to be an improvement over the last two guys to hold the position, it's important to note that since he has taken over for Rasulo he has not made any significant changes to the management structure put in place by JR ... the guys from Glendale to Anaheim to Paris to Orlando to the high seas are all hand-picked Rasulo guys. And he IS the CFO of the company.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Money has always been a driver, but not like we've seen in the past 15 years. There is no long term drive for value and quality in this (or most) companies because 'the Street' only cares about the price of a share today the next quarter's results. That short term thinking is toxic to a creative dream factory like WDI and an entertainment company, period.

For a company that likes to throw around terms like dreams, wishes and magic until they have utterly no meaning at all, it can be a long march toward mediocrity or worse.

The details ... the Disney Details ... are constantly being tugged at, pulled at and cut out everytime Iger (or Eisner before him) needs to show they're running a 'lean, mean' ship and 'cutting fat' ... I've often said (my regular fans know this) that WDW lost its last fat over a decade ago and now every cut is muscle or bone. The fiber of what makes Disney, Disney. (I'll give you a hint, it's not stale parks with slovenly, unhappy, underpaid CMs and attractions that are not maintained).

And the bottom line is, at some point any corporation that truly values its heritage, quality content and PEOPLE will have to decide whether it keeps whoring itself for the analysts and institutional investors and daytraders by lowering the bar annually in a quest to 'be competitive'. Wall Street hasn't exactly played by the rules (the real reason our economy is where it is at) yet corporations should feel compelled to worry about every whisper by every analyst?



Walmarting, as I've used the term for many moons, is more of a lowering of standards and quality across the board and lowering expectations of guests and cast about the process.

When I look at WDW over the past decade I'm at a loss at finding anything that was a WOW! for me that was added/replaced at the parks. There have been some decent things, but I expect more than that ...

And that goes to your above point, as I also have no problem with changes provided they IMPROVE on what was there before. I don't see much of that at WDW. ... And, again, I have seen what Disney can do in other places and there is a big (HUGE if you include Tokyo) difference in just doing the basics.



I am on the fence myself. I see some great things elsewhere ... from Asia to Anaheim ... heck, from Hawaii to the new cruise ships. But at WDW?
I just don't see much beyond what will be a nicer looking Fantasyland in two years. They got too big, too fast and haven't figured out how to keep the parks fresh.

Just look at MK parades ... a 1972 night parade and a 2001 day parade ... in 2011? Yeah, they sure are trying ...

And while Staggs appears to be an improvement over the last two guys to hold the position, it's important to note that since he has taken over for Rasulo he has not made any significant changes to the management structure put in place by JR ... the guys from Glendale to Anaheim to Paris to Orlando to the high seas are all hand-picked Rasulo guys. And he IS the CFO of the company.

Like I said before, I don't really disagree with you. I think I just am looking at it in a different way. I would love for Disney to say "screw the analysts we are creating what is nice no matter what the results are", but we both know that can't be a reality. If they don't cater to the audience, they have no audience. If they have no audience, all the art they've created is for nothing. The world is what it is for now, perhaps somewhere down the line we'll hit such a technological point where people will revert backward a little to where things were a bit simpler. Until then, I don't see Disney or any other company not changing with the times in order to keep their investors happy. Unfortunate to a degree for sure, but I can't say I don't understand it either. Maybe a later group of management will be able to strike that perfect balance.

 

[redshoesrock]

Like I said before, I don't really disagree with you. I think I just am looking at it in a different way. I would love for Disney to say "screw the analysts we are creating what is nice no matter what the results are", but we both know that can't be a reality. If they don't cater to the audience, they have no audience. If they have no audience, all the art they've created is for nothing. The world is what it is for now, perhaps somewhere down the line we'll hit such a technological point where people will revert backward a little to where things were a bit simpler. Until then, I don't see Disney or any other company not changing with the times in order to keep their investors happy. Unfortunate to a degree for sure, but I can't say I don't understand it either. Maybe a later group of management will be able to strike that perfect balance.

I disagree with the bold text. If all you do is cater to your audience, you'll find yourself pulled in so many different directions that in trying to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. It's impossible to determine what everyone wants to see, especially when your audience is the entire population of the world. In the end, the best you can do is trust in yourself, your beliefs, and your ability, create the art that you want to make, and let your audience come to you. Otherwise you'll have no choice but to ride on the coattails of true artists and dreamers always playing second fiddle. Chasing after your audience will forever keep you two steps behind true innovation. Or, to put it a better way:

"I dream, I test my dreams against my beliefs, I dare to take risks, and I execute my vision to make those dreams come true." -Walt Disney

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Even with all it's downsides, I think your job at Disney is one that many of us would love to have at one point or another.

I truly appreciate the fact that I had an opportunity that many would have killed for. It's not something taken for granted. I only have the utmost respect for WDI and those who make it special, and a double dose of empathy for what Imagineers go through to bring us those shows and details. One of the reason this thread exists, is to help outsiders understand just what Imagineers do and appreciate the challenges that are faced in designing and building parks.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Money has always been a driver, but not like we've seen in the past 15 years. There is no long term drive for value and quality in this (or most) companies because 'the Street' only cares about the price of a share today the next quarter's results. That short term thinking is toxic to a creative dream factory like WDI and an entertainment company, period.

Short term thinking is not healthy. Agreed.

But is this really true based on their actions? Deciding to dump a billion into DCA as the economy was crashing seems more long term to me. So does the foresight of adding Cruise Ships (and they improved them). The company has turned tail on the cheap park concepts (DCA, Paris Studio) in favor of inventing Shanghai as a new design from the ground up. Big bucks. Long Term thinking, as you can import the attractions back to the US if they are well received. As for details, they are adding ghost effects into the WDW Mansion. While I have not been to WDW in years and hear it has slipped in many areas, the geist of the company overall is back to basics and quality. Let's hope the things you point out get dealt with. I quit in the Pressler era of no upkeep Park-sploitation. Bob Iger is just the opposite and I think is doing quite a bit of good. He appreciates quality. Not to say you don't have good points and I'm not out there looking at peeling paint, but I think credit is due in some areas.

 

[flavious27]

Even with those modifications, which may be possible but may not if it makes standing difficult, you are getting back into the realm of a custom project, not standard equipment in a pretty wrapper.

True, though this would be a custom project anyway because I think that disney would want to keep the lear jet look. I looked over the dimensions again of the scomi and mark vi, and half of its extra height is that the AC unit is placed on top of the trains. It makes more sense for Scomi to have the AC units above the riders, less effort is needed to cool the guests. I wonder if the AC units can be placed underneath the floor and then have the air forced into the cabin.

 

[Malvito]

A question to Mr. Sotto:

What do you make of the debate about the new Haunted Mansion queue? (400+ posts and counting ... )

 

[wdwmagic]

Short term thinking is not healthy. Agreed.

But is this really true based on their actions? Deciding to dump a billion into DCA as the economy was crashing seems more long term to me. So does the foresight of adding Cruise Ships (and they improved them). The company has turned tail on the cheap park concepts (DCA, Paris Studio) in favor of inventing Shanghai as a new design from the ground up. Big bucks. Long Term thinking, as you can import the attractions back to the US if they are well received. As for details, they are adding ghost effects into the WDW Mansion. While I have not been to WDW in years and hear it has slipped in many areas, the geist of the company overall is back to basics and quality. Let's hope the things you point out get dealt with. I quit in the Pressler era of no upkeep Park-sploitation. Bob Iger is just the opposite and I think is doing quite a bit of good. He appreciates quality. Not to say you don't have good points and I'm not out there looking at peeling paint, but I think credit is due in some areas.

I agree - there is a lot of long term quality coming back. The recent additions at WDW - Pooh Queue, Mansion Queue, Town Square Theater, Next Gen, are all things that aren't strictly necessary, but are being done for the long term good - and they are being done to a high quality. There are always going to be problem areas and things that fans don't like, but WDW should gain some applause for what it's doing well.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I agree - there is a lot of long term quality coming back. The recent additions at WDW - Pooh Queue, Mansion Queue, Town Square Theater, Next Gen, are all things that aren't strictly necessary, but are being done for the long term good - and they are being done to a high quality. There are always going to be problem areas and things that fans don't like, but WDW should gain some applause for what it's doing well.

Agreed with you both and that was what I was trying to bring out to 74. I think Iger really saw the errors of the regime before him and decided he needed to take some action before people became too complacent. Like Eddie said, the billion being put into DCA is so they can bring the park up to actual Disney standards. It's as if the first ten years were a disappointing soft opening that they are fixing due to the feedback. Attention to detail in the queues and even the food cart that popped up in Fantasyland all make me believe that they are heading in the right track.

 

[tirian]

I agree - there is a lot of long term quality coming back. The recent additions at WDW - Pooh Queue, Mansion Queue, Town Square Theater, Next Gen, are all things that aren't strictly necessary, but are being done for the long term good - and they are being done to a high quality. There are always going to be problem areas and things that fans don't like, but WDW should gain some applause for what it's doing well.

There is an enormous push toward old-school quality right now in the parks division, and many people are thrilled to see its return. Now we just need that same care to be applied to FL ride refurbs, the Jungle Cruise, a replacement for Stitch, the DDP, Imagination, WoL, Animal Kingdom... :lol:

To their credit, WDI and Disney execs know the parks have suffered from years of neglect, and they're obviously trying to correct almost fifteen years of bad management. I won't pretend everything is magically being renewed overnight, but I'm impressed with the level of thoughtfulness applied to the latest projects. I once sadly assumed we'd never again see the level of detail put into the old Disney attractions like 20K and the Diamond Horseshoe. I'm glad I was wrong.

 

[tirian]

Dear Eddie,

Regarding your latest avatar:

Why so serious?

 

[jt04]

There is an enormous push toward old-school quality right now in the parks division, and many people are thrilled to see its return. Now we just need that same care to be applied to FL ride refurbs, the Jungle Cruise, a replacement for Stitch, the DDP, Imagination, WoL, Animal Kingdom... :lol:

To their credit, WDI and Disney execs know the parks have suffered from years of neglect, and they're obviously trying to correct almost fifteen years of bad management. I won't pretend everything is magically being renewed overnight, but I'm impressed with the level of thoughtfulness applied to the latest projects. I once sadly assumed we'd never again see the level of detail put into the old Disney attractions like 20K and the Diamond Horseshoe. I'm glad I was wrong.

Oh, you had plenty of company. One word for everyone as a reminder, "sheriff". That is all. To Steve's credit he allowed me and one or two other believers to stay and make that case. Steve understands optimism etc.

Dear Eddie,

Regarding your latest avatar:

Why so serious?

I always have that same expression when a certain spirit invades a thread I am participating in. Coincidence? :lookaroun

 

[HMF]

Go over to Universal Orlando and the presence of GE is minimal, I think the biggest being the GE Money ATMs. .

Wish I could say the same about NBC.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-24-2011/family-matters

 

[SeaCastle]

Oh, you had plenty of company. One word for everyone as a reminder, "sheriff". That is all. To Steve's credit he allowed me and one or two other believers to stay and make that case. Steve understands optimism etc.



I always have that same expression when a certain spirit invades a thread I am participating in. Coincidence? :lookaroun

Given that you post in nearly every thread, I think it's fair to leave it as just "coincidence".

 

[jt04]

Given that you post in nearly every thread, I think it's fair to leave it as just "coincidence".

Actually I think you will find I pretty much only post in threads that deal with future happenings which is why you almost never see me in the general discussion thread.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I just put that down to you being a flat liner.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

A question to Mr. Sotto:

What do you make of the debate about the new Haunted Mansion queue? (400+ posts and counting ... )

We had our own little debate right here on this thread a week ago. It all began with Post 4203.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Dear Eddie,

Regarding your latest avatar:

Why so serious?

Isn't that a Joker line from Batman?

 

[rsoxguy]

Mr. Sotto, I have a couple of questions for you.

1. If you were a present day Imagineer, would you lean more toward whimsical renovations such as the Fantasyland expansion, or would you gravitate more toward the Tower of Terror/Rock-n-Roller Coaster thrill ride type of additions? I don't want to put you on the spot, but I am genuinely curious as to how creative minds within the business feel about these things.
2. Is your name pronounced S(long O)tto, or S(short O)tto??

Please do not feel obligated to answer the first question if you prefer to avoid any controversy.