The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[mickEblu]

It would probably be 2016 for me. I’d take BVS over Sunshine Plaza. Although in a vacuum the old entrance does look more visually interesting from the esplanade for sure.

Not to mention more unique.

 

[Disney Irish]

And here in lies the issue. This tells me you ve already taken a defensive stance or have a preconceived notion of why I’m making that comment. I know most people are not capable of this but I take everything at face value. I’m always seeking absolute truth with little to no bias influencing my analysis. Perhaps the only issue is not calling out positives as much as I call out negatives. But that’s human nature.

And I too take things at face value, especially when it comes to what posters say here. And my friend your stance more often than not in these forum is negativity when it comes to Disney, especially when it comes to Iger. So when you say things like "whichever one paints him in the best light is what you believe" means to me that you're viewing what he says as negative.

I wasn’t interested in my comment turning into a homework assignment. Thank you though.

Lol, well I mean you were the one who said it, so I'm just trying to understand what is the overarching story of Pirates is to you. Because that would provide so much context in these discussions and why you think what he said is incorrect.

 

[mickEblu]

And I too take things at face value, especially when it comes to what posters say here. And my friend your stance more often than not in these forum is negativity when it comes to Disney, especially when it comes to Iger. So when you say things like "whichever one paints him in the best light is what you believe" means to me that you're viewing what he says as negative.

Well that must mean there are more negative things to speak on these days than there are positive. As far as Iger I rarely ever bring him up so I’m not sure where that’s coming from.

 

[Disney Irish]

Well that must mean there are more negative things to speak on these days than there are positive.

But even where there is something positive to bring up I don't really see you posting about it. You even just said you aren't doing it as much as you are about the negativity basically admitting it.

So how would anyone even get the impression from your posting history that you even have anything positive to say? I mean weren't you one of the posters who came up with the "Hive of Miserables" or some such nickname for this side of the forums for the group of you who were negative about all things Disney were doing?

As far as Iger I rarely ever bring him up so I’m not sure where that’s coming from.

From the 250th thread when you made comments about him just a couple days ago, among others in the past, but that is the recent one.

So forgive me if I get the impression from your postings that you don't think too fondly of him and will think of most of what he says in a negative way.

 

[mickEblu]

But even where there is something positive to bring up I don't see you posting about it. You even just said you aren't doing it as much as you are the negativity.

So how would anyone even get the impression from your posting history that you even have anything positive to say? I mean weren't you one of the posters who came up with the "Hive of Miserables" or some such nickname for this side of the forums for the group of you who were negative about all things Disney were doing?


From the 250th thread when you made comments about him just a couple days ago, among others in the past, but that is the recent one.

So forgive me if I get the impression from your postings that you don't think too fondly of him and will think of most of what he says in a negative way.

Both things can be true. I might not bring up as many positives as negatives (because I’m human) and there can also be more negatives than positives to talk about. Also keep in mind that we have to consider the collective whole. If most people are bringing up negative topics than it would make sense that I’m posting more often about negative things. Also when something positive does come up I usually will chime in and give props where they are due. They might not be as long or wordy and that has to do with expectations. We expect Disney to be great and knock it out of the park. We dont expect them to fall short or fail. It seems Disney has been in the process of resetting our expectations over the last 5 or so years. Whether they know it or not.

 

[mickEblu]

One example. Let’s take a look at sight lines. We’ll walk into a Universal park and look past some of the less than ideal sight lines because we have our Universal goggles on. Maybe Disney wants in on that.

 

[Disney Irish]

Both things can be true. I might not bring up as many positives as negatives (because I’m human) and there can also be more negatives than positives to talk about. Also keep in mind that we have to consider the collective whole. If most people are bringing up negative topics than it would make sense that I’m posting more often about negative things. Also when something positive does come up I usually will chime in and give props where they are due. They might not be as long or wordy and that has to do with expectations. We expect Disney to be great and knock it out of the park. We dont expect them to fall short or fail. It seems Disney has been in the process of resetting our expectations over the last 5 or so years. Whether they know it or not.

I think we have the ability to see thing through positive or negative lens, and we choose which one we put on every day. Its not human nature, its a choice. You choose whether you want to be positive or negative, no one forces that on you nor is it human nature.

Also to be fair much of what negatives that are discussed here are nitpicky that a majority of the guest facing public couldn't care less about.

I've also had this conversation before with you where I think too many set too high of expectations that are build it up in their mind of what something should be. And then because it doesn't meet those lofty expectations within their minds through no fault of their own Disney fails to those people, all because they fail to meet some made up expectation. Like I've mentioned before, it used to be that we got some vague concept art and everyone would be happy with that and not one expectation would be set because of it. Now we dissect it 100x times before the day is done when its released and have some expectation set of what it will be less than 24 hours after announcement. So yeah maybe expectations need to be reset just a bit.

 

[mickEblu]

Like I've mentioned before, it used to be that we got some vague concept art and everyone would be happy with that and not one expectation would be set because of it. Now we dissect it 100x times before the day is done when its released and have some expectation set of what it will be less than 24 hours after announcement. So yeah maybe expectations need to be reset just a bit.

Yes following a project everyday for years can take off some of the luster and make it harder to wow us but it isn’t the be all end all. I would have been equally if not more disappointed by TBA for example if I wasn’t following along. At least by following I was given cues that this retheme wasn’t going to go well. Had I not been following my expectations would have been higher.

We have the ability choose a positive or negative lens but I’m going to call it like it is. Lens or no lens.

 

[Disney Irish]

Yes following a project everyday for years can take off some of the luster and make it harder to wow us but it isn’t the be all end all. I would have been equally if not more disappointed by TBA for example if I wasn’t following along. At least by following I was given cues that this retheme wasn’t going to go well. Had I not been following my expectations would have been higher.

We have the ability choose a positive or negative lens but I’m going to call it like it is. Lens or no lens.

Had TBA not replaced one of your most loved attractions I don't think you'd be as negative as you have been on it.

Be that as it may, you're still more negative than positive here and so that is the impression you're giving off even if you don't intend to be. So just like someone who is positive is given the "pixie duster" tag, someone who is overly negative is given a similar tag, fair or not.

 

[mickEblu]

Ok, so what is the overarching story of Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean?

Fine I’ll play. Visual storytelling. I’d imagine that’s a term in Bobs arsenal. Or at least it should be. That’s what POTC does brilliantly. Imagine if instead he would have said “visual storytelling at its finest.” It would have accomplished what he intended better. He was trying to make a distinction to appear well versed in this particular subject but instead showcased that he may have no idea what he’s talking about and also made a comment that can be interpreted as POTC doesn’t have great storytelling. Visual storytelling is a form of story telling.

Not so brilliant story telling can also imply that an attraction needs a story or linear story to be brilliant when it in fact they do not as some of Disneys best attractions do not have any linear story.

As I said earlier POTC doesn’t have a linear story. My take is that the stories regarding any sort of linear story that have come up since have been sort of reverse engineered. Then of course you have all the Jack Sparrow stuff they crammed in there.

 

[Phroobar]

"Pirates needs more female pirates that can withstand a lightsaber sword to the stomach." - KK

 

[mickEblu]

Had TBA not replaced one of your most loved attractions I don't think you'd be as negative as you have been on it.

It would sting less but the retheme would still be junk. Many people who didn’t necessarily care for Splash think it’s a junk retheme.

Be that as it may, you're still more negative than positive here and so that is the impression you're giving off even if you don't intend to be. So just like someone who is positive is given the "pixie duster" tag, someone who is overly negative is given a similar tag, fair or not.

And I wear that badge proudly.

 

[Disney Irish]

Fine I’ll play. Visual storytelling. I’d imagine that’s a term in Bobs arsenal. Or at least it should be. That’s what POTC does brilliantly. Imagine if instead he would have said “visual storytelling at its finest.” It would have accomplished what he intended better. He was trying to make a distinction to appear well versed in this particular subject but instead showcased that he may have no idea what he’s talking about and also made a comment that can be interpreted as POTC doesn’t have great storytelling. Visual storytelling is a form of story telling.

Not so brilliant story telling can also imply that an attraction needs a story or linear story to be brilliant when it in fact they do not as some of Disneys best attractions do not have any linear story.

As I said earlier POTC doesn’t have a linear story. My take is that the stories regarding any sort of linear story that have come up since have been sort of reverse engineered. Then of course you have all the Jack Sparrow stuff they crammed in there.

So your answer is there is no overarching story, got it.

Have you ever thought that the reason they added Jack was to try to add some type of linear story to an otherwise non-linear attraction? And that while you may not think it needs it, that to keep it relevant and interesting to modern audiences they needed to add it?

Also just FYI, linear storytelling is a form of visual storytelling, just as non-linear storytelling is as well. It just means that the medium of the storytelling is visually rather than only audibly or another medium.

It would sting less but the retheme would still be junk. Many people who didn’t necessarily care for Splash think it’s a junk retheme.

The operative word in that sentence is RETHEME. In a world where TBA didn't replace Splash and was just built from the ground up just as it is now I have to think that it would not have had a negative reaction or at least not as much of one.

And I wear that badge proudly.

Lol, well then don't be incensed when someone takes something you post as negative even if you don't intend it to be.

 

[mickEblu]

So your answer is there is no overarching story, got it.

Does this somehow make what Bob said make sense?

The operative word in that sentence is RETHEME. In a world where TBA didn't replace Splash and was just built from the ground up just as it is now I have to think that it would not have had a negative reaction or at least not as much of one

Stop. It’s garbage no matter how you look at it.

Lol, well then don't be incensed when someone takes something you post as negative even if you don't intend it to be.

I’m not. Not sure what made you feel that is the case.

 

[Disney Irish]

Why are you taking out of your ar$e? Does this somehow make what Bob said make sense?

I'm not, I asked you a direct question and you didn't answer, instead going into some diatribe about Bob sounding like he doesn't know what he is talking about, etc.

There is no overarching story in Pirates, but rather its a bunch of vignettes told out of order in a non-linear way. And there is nothing wrong with that, it just may not be the best for modern audiences. And because of that Bob's statement isn't incorrect. Its just may not have been the best way to say it.

Stop. It’s garbage no matter how you look at it.

If you say so.

I’m not. Not sure what made you feel that is the case.

Sorry that is the impression I got by our exchange.

 

[mickEblu]

I'm not, I asked you a direct question and you didn't answer, instead going into some diatribe about Bob sounding like he doesn't know what he is talking about, etc.

There is no overarching story in Pirates, but rather its a bunch of vignettes told out of order in a non-linear way. And there is nothing wrong with that, it just may not be the best for modern audiences. And because of that Bob's statement isn't incorrect. Its just maybe not have been the best way to say it.


If you say so.


Sorry that is the impression I got by our exchange.

Bobs statement is in fact incorrect and ALSO not the best way he could have said what he was trying to say.

 

[Disney Irish]

Bobs statement is in fact incorrect and ALSO not the best way he could have said what he was trying to say.

Its an opinion not a fact. So lets just agree to disagree and come to a conclusion on this.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I can only say that when I watched the full episode (both of them), before social media picked this up and started raging, I found his comments innocuous. He already admits it’s his favourite attraction (several times), and mentioning that it’s not the most brilliant storytelling is objectively true. He never said it doesn’t tell a story at all, we all know it does. But it’s in the abstract, and yet it's very effective, and executed brilliantly.

If anything him recognizing that should mean he understands why it's a huge success. Would be great if that meant they'd build more rides like the ol' days. But alas.

But of course the rage machine picked it up on twitter, and twisted it into something bigger and worse than it ever could have been. Grifters with blue checks working hard to make money off engagement.

 

[mlayton144]

Ok, so what is the overarching story of Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean?

I think the non story of Pirates per se is one that serves it well … it opens up imagination and re-rerideabilty , it really isn’t necessary to spoonfeed a story to the rider

 

[Disney Irish]

I think the non story of Pirates per se is one that serves it well … it opens up imagination and re-rerideabilty , it really isn’t necessary to spoonfeed a story to the rider

I'm not saying it doesn't serve it well. But that doesn't invalidate what Bob said.